looking for help with theory.

[dave_bass5]

I seem to have got in to a rut, playing wise.

While my theory has always been very lacking its not really been a problem. Im playing covers so i just learn the recorded bass parts. I can improvise a bit but ive never been into soloing.
Now i need to open the door and start playing new stuff in new ways. And maybe the odd solo etc.
I guess my playing standard is medium (to low lol), i know where all the notes are and can string thme in to the correct order, but its all sounding very basic.

Im looking for a book that is bass related, so not just page after page of scales, not really for beginners but does cover the basic scales as well as improvising, etc. I guess its ideas im after.
Maybe something based on different styles of music.

Im not a great music reader, and i dont really want to spend too much time learning that side before i start learning the notes. But if i have to thats ok.

Ive only just thought of all this so i might be asking for something thats staring me right in the face (like in the stickie's above) or contradicting myself.

Cheers for any help.

[Sarah5string]

I was in exactly your boat until recently. In January I started lessons and love it! About to sign up to do my RGT grade 4 exam this summer too! Great for giving you extra motivation and reasons to play Also helps with the improv.

[Doddy]

For learning theory I would necessarily look at bass specific books,as they often don't go far
enough beyond the standard major/minor and pentatonics.

I know pages of scales aren't fun,but if you want to get deeper into improvising having a solid
knowledge of scales and arpeggios is a basic starting point.
You will have to have a basic understanding of the notes if you are looking at books as unless they
are bass specific they won't have tab,which is irrelevant in this side of things. For me,understanding
the notes on the stave should be a basic requirement,especially when you want to look at the theory.

Try something like the Associated Board theory books. They are a good place to start.
I really like 'The Jazz Theory Book'-it's probably too heavy for you at this stage,but it contains so
much information. It's great,if a little overwhelming at first.

[dave_bass5]

Thanks Sarah.
Lessons are option but most of my free time is late evenings so maybe not practical.
Im hoping more for something i can just dip in and out of when i have the time.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Doddy' post='789697' date='Mar 29 2010, 06:04 PM']For learning theory I would necessarily look at bass specific books,as they often don't go far
enough beyond the standard major/minor and pentatonics.[/quote]

Thanks, i understand what you say and agree that i need to understand the baiscs.
I do, sort of. I did O level music at school so i know how notes go together but its putting them in a interesting order i think is my problem.
Ive seen a few books like Rock bass riff's, How to play Motown, stuff like that. While these are all pretty basic stuff i think i would have more results by getting an understanding how different styles of music are played.

As i said in my first post, i might not be clear in my head what i want to get out of this at the moment so i could be talking rubbish. Certainly i want ideas how to play a bit more interesting so open to most ideas.

[Doddy]

The only problem with 'riff' style books is that all you get
out of it is how to play a certain riff. They very rarely help you with
the theory or how to improvise. They may give you ideas or
inspiration,but they won't 'teach' you all that much.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Doddy' post='789763' date='Mar 29 2010, 06:57 PM']The only problem with 'riff' style books is that all you get
out of it is how to play a certain riff. They very rarely help you with
the theory or how to improvise. They may give you ideas or
inspiration,but they won't 'teach' you all that much.[/quote]

Yeah, it was just an idea.
I do find certain scales are used more in certain types of music though, so my thinking is i might get the hang of using them for different types of music.

In fact i wonder if there is a list or webpage that describes the different scales and in what music they are used. That might help.

Edited March 29, 2010 by dave_bass5

[Major-Minor]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='789767' date='Mar 29 2010, 07:02 PM']In fact i wonder if there is a list or webpage that describes the different scales and in what music they are used.[/quote]
Hi Dave
I think maybe you have misunderstood what scales are all about !
Every type of music uses scales and all scales can be used in every type of music.
Scales are a starting point for music learning and music creation.

It's a very big subject - we can't begin to cover it in a few sentences.

But by learning a few one octave scales - major and minor (harmonic/melodic/natural), you will have the basic foundations to go on and learn about key structure / triads / harmonic movement / modulation / modes / extended chord building etc etc

Have a look at Session 1 and 1a in my Bass Boot Camp series (pinned on this Theory and Technique section). This might get you going !

If not, let me know what you are having problems with and i will structure some Sessions accordingly.

I'm just about to start work on some Easy Reading sessions for those who find music reading a frightening prospect.


The Major

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Major-Minor' post='790791' date='Mar 30 2010, 04:48 PM']But by learning a few one octave scales - major and minor (harmonic/melodic/natural), you will have the basic foundations to go on and learn about key structure / triads / harmonic movement / modulation / modes / extended chord building etc etc


The Major[/quote]

Thanks Major.

I did have a look through part one and two before i started this thread but i was at work so it was just a glance. I will go back to them when i have the time.

My comment about different scales for different music was probably not as clear as i thought it was but your comment above is sort of what im after.

While im very loosely generalising, i find that certain styles of music tend to use certain chord progressions and scales.
Reggae, blues, rock and roll spring to mind. To me these each have very distinctive styles of bass line. Again, thats a over generalisation.

I know anything can be played but to me it seems certain progressions, or certain types of bass line help make the style of the song.


what im looking for is a way of understanding whats going on in the different styles so i can improvise while keeping it authentic.
I dont know the names of the different scales so cant use any as an example.

Does this make sense? I know this wasn't what i first asked for but this is what i would like to work on.

Thanks again. Ill definitely work through some of your studies.

[Major-Minor]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='790810' date='Mar 30 2010, 05:12 PM']Thanks Major.

I did have a look through part one and two before i started this thread but i was at work so it was just a glance. I will go back to them when i have the time.

My comment about different scales for different music was probably not as clear as i thought it was but your comment above is sort of what im after.

While im very loosely generalising, i find that certain styles of music tend to use certain chord progressions and scales.
Reggae, blues, rock and roll spring to mind. To me these each have very distinctive styles of bass line. Again, thats a over generalisation.

I know anything can be played but to me it seems certain progressions, or certain types of bass line help make the style of the song.


what im looking for is a way of understanding whats going on in the different styles so i can improvise while keeping it authentic.
I dont know the names of the different scales so cant use any as an example.

Does this make sense? I know this wasn't what i first asked for but this is what i would like to work on.

Thanks again. Ill definitely work through some of your studies.[/quote]
Dave
You are quite right - each genre of music will tend to have certain stylistic characteristics which one can define by chord types and chord progression types. You are unlikely to find, say, an A7b9 chord in a Reggae tune, while this will be common in a Big Band Swing chart or a Jazz-Funk tune.
But when we look at the bass parts of different styles of music (particularly "popular" music), it's not so much SCALE related or CHORD related differences that we notice, but RHYTHMIC and GROOVE related.
After all, most types of "popular music" have fairly simple harmonic bases, and, generalising, the bass parts tend to follow the chord sequences in a logical fashion, playing mostly chordal notes with a few non chordal passing notes thrown in. But its the rhythmic use of those notes that makes the styling clear.

Generalising is a very dangerous thing to do ! So I don't think its helpful for me to say that, for instance, Jazz walking lines are always 4 to the bar or that Rock and Roll is always arpeggiated dominant 7ths. It's much better to understand the theoretical basis for ALL music. Standard Western Music Theory covers all the points you need to know to then be able to work out what is going on in any particular style / genre.

In my Bass Boot Camp Sessions on this forum, I'm trying to gradually cover all the theory that one needs to know and understand to be a good (general) bass player, and at the same time helping players to get their reading and technical skills up to speed.

A good knowledge and facility with all scales and arpeggios is a must for the aspiring bass player, as is a firm grasp on harmonic principles (chords and their usage). But my point here is that all these things are inter-related and cross-genre.

For instance, you are as likely to find evidence of a harmonic minor scale in a piece by Mozart as you might in a Hip Hop track or a Tango or a Prog rock epic or an Algerian Rai opus. But the way that scale will be used will differ hugely in its stylistic context.

I will put on my list for future Bass Camp Sessions something about this scales /chords relationship.

I'm currently preparing some sessions on basic reading skills which will, naturally, also include basic scale work.

The Major