RSI - Repetitive Strain Injury again!

[xilddx]

[quote name='RhysP' post='793608' date='Apr 1 2010, 07:01 PM']We appear to have some kind of telepathic mind-meld sh*t going on this evening................ [/quote]
Christ, we do don't we!

[hellothere]

hahaha, they say great minds think alike...

...and that fools rarely differ

[hagguy]

i'm a plasterer to trade, and RSI kind of comes with the
territory, my right shoulder is knackered, my right elbow is
agony all the time, and if i rotate my wrists it sounds like a cement
mixer full of bricks, to think all that can be solved by a book, sounds
a bit odd. i've had injections physio and all sorts of treatments
including accupucture (which helps). i'm really glad the book worked for some,
but deep rooted injuries take more than a mental tidy up in my expierience.
i'm not gonna have a go at the guy for posting the thread cos' his intentions are
more than good imo and if i stumble accross any miracle cures, i would do exactly
the same, he was only trying to be helpful.

[dumelow]

I dont know why people are reacting so badly to this thread. The guy is obviously just telling us about his experience in hope that it might help someone. I dont think the idea behind this book as too absurd anyway.

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='dumelow' post='796161' date='Apr 5 2010, 12:58 AM']I dont know why people are reacting so badly to this thread.[/quote]

Personally (apart from my own experiences with RSI) I find it quite irresponsible to suggest people start with this book rather than seeking a doctor's advice:

[quote name='sim77']Again I understand your reservations. But I could not care less of what you think. If you get an RSI (Which I hope none of you will) and you will rich a dead end with treatments, then give it a try. Or better - start with it straight away.[/quote]

Any medical issues should be taken up with a doctor and only a doctor, and in cases like this where certain things can make it worse, anything to be tried should be discussed with someone who knows what they're talking about. Suggesting to people that they should try and sort out a serious condition that can cause serious long term health problems by reading a book by someone who doesn't know the specifics of the patient (regardless of medical experience) is actually dangerous.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='dumelow' post='796161' date='Apr 5 2010, 12:58 AM']I dont know why people are reacting so badly to this thread. The guy is obviously just telling us about his experience in hope that it might help someone. I dont think the idea behind this book as too absurd anyway.[/quote]

The main opponents seem to be people who've been through a lot of pain and treatment for this, and so would be outraged if their problem was solved easily.

Having said that it still looks like a load of bollocks to me. I'm interested in general in "mind over matter" type stuff and so would like to know 100% but that isn't going to happen on an internet forum!

[WalMan]

I suspect it was posted in good faith and £5 is not a huge amount for something that might give some help.........but I would want to go the doctor route as well to make sure there was not something nasty underlying the pain (which after all is your body telling you it's not happy about something)

As an RA sufferer who is slowly becoming bionic (left shoulder, right wrist and knuckles replaced and to be done shortly) drugs (prescription) and the knife have made my life, and playing, a whole lot easier, but I know that some of those drugs are pretty toxic and have to be watched.

My parents have a friend who was crippled with RA and a visit to a dietician and change of diet has completely turned things around for her and she is off all the RA drugs now. Yet when I went on the local NHS surviving RA course one of the things they said was "diet makes no difference". I tend to differ with that slightly from the foregoing tale, and the fact that I know that orange juice plays havoc with my joints.

I picked up a Powerball around the time my wrist was done in February, but didn't think about using it until I had spoken to the physio and consultant - neither of whom had come across Powerballs before, perhaps because no one else had bothered to ask them.

So in essence I would say get the book by all means but be very wary of using that on its own if your body is telling you otherwise.

...and finally @hagguy my experience of the knife has been pretty good generally. The shoulder is still tight, but some of that is my fault for not exercising enough (physio reckons the muscles in my neck and shoulders are locked solid). Index finger knuckle kept me out of action in plaster for around three weeks (as I recall). The wrist last Feb was in plaster for two weeks and I was raring to go pretty much as soon as the plaster came off and that and the knuckle were a great improvement. No more grinding of the gears as they move and strength pretty solid now - where it is off I think that is the rest of the hand that is getting done at the end of the month. Now I am a desk jockey and you are in a more manual trade that may put more strain on those joints, but IMO if the knife were offered I'd say go for it.

[Chris2112]

[quote name='WalMan' post='797477' date='Apr 6 2010, 01:10 PM']when I went on the local NHS surviving RA course one of the things they said was "diet makes no difference". I tend to differ with that slightly from the foregoing tale, and the fact that I know that orange juice plays havoc with my joints.[/quote]

I would have to agree with this point. I am lucky not to have suffered any joint problems myself, but last year my dad was suffering with gout. His foot was bad and he couldn't run or cycle. Eating certain things made it much worse too, especially anything with a lot of citric acid in it!

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='797404' date='Apr 6 2010, 12:14 PM']The main opponents seem to be people who've been through a lot of pain and treatment for this, and so would be outraged if their problem was solved easily.[/quote]

That's a very unfair statement. I'd be delighted if someone suffering could be cured by spending £5 on a book and almost no time following the guidelines. On the flip side I've been devastated to hear about people who've tried various techniques not advised by doctors and have had to give up playing permanently.

Worth a look? Maybe, so long as you look over it with your doctor and not try random techniques for improving without some medical experience watching over it.

Worth going to before you go to see a doctor? No and anyone who says differently shouldn't be giving advice because they could cause someone a lot of harm.


Interesting how the OP hasn't bothered to post and defend himself yet. I suspect it's just advertising.

[WalMan]

[quote name='Johnston' post='797935' date='Apr 6 2010, 07:37 PM'][b]Walman[/b]

What did you think of the power ball?? Did it do you any good?

I tried it but I would suffer big style afterwards. Like you I mentioned it to phsyio's and an occupational therapist and got a blank 'what you talking about' look.[/quote]
Haven't really got into it yet. The consultant & physio both had no problems with it - mind they possibly did not realise how much strain it can exert once it gets going.

The weird thing is I can get it running in my right hand and keep it going, and also move it to my left hand and keep it running, but getting started with the left hand I just cannot do.

Used it properly(ish) for the first time last night and could feel the strain after. I think it will be a case of little & often, particularly after the pinkie knuckle & intermediate tendons are done at the end of this month to see how that helps build up grip. But just in gentle stages, not the mad "I can hit 20k" YouTube clips

[cheddatom]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='798040' date='Apr 6 2010, 09:12 PM']That's a very unfair statement.[/quote]

Sorry! If i'd had a load of surgery and physio, and then some wonder treatment comes along to cure me in five minutes for free, i'd be pretty pissed off!!

I also suspect it's advertising, which is why I haven't bought the book. I'm interested in these powerball things though. I've been playing bass again recently after a while off and it's really hurting.

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='798414' date='Apr 7 2010, 10:03 AM']Sorry! If i'd had a load of surgery and physio, and then some wonder treatment comes along to cure me in five minutes for free, i'd be pretty pissed off!![/quote]

Surely if you'd suffered a lot with a problem, you wouldn't want anyone else to go through the same thing? I can understand you'd be gutted it wasn't around when you had the problem, but I don't see why it'd make you angry that it's become available since.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='798440' date='Apr 7 2010, 10:17 AM']Surely if you'd suffered a lot with a problem, you wouldn't want anyone else to go through the same thing? I can understand you'd be gutted it wasn't around when you had the problem, but I don't see why it'd make you angry that it's become available since.[/quote]

It's mainly the fact that they suggest it's psychological. If i'd had to quit the bass, have numerous operations etc, only to find out that my condition was all in the mind, i'd feel like i'd been f***ed over pretty badly.

Obviously, if I knew someone who had been cured in that way, I would be happy for them. Being happy for someone else doesn't always mean you're happy.

This isn't really the issue though. What I want to know is if there is anything in this idea of RSI being in the mind (mainly because my GP is sh*t). I suppose it entirely depends on the nature of the RSI, and to know that you'd need a diagnosis, which I don't have.


P.S sorry I keep using the term RSI I know it's not supposed to be helpful, but i'm not sure what else to use.

[WalMan]

[quote name='Johnston' post='798628' date='Apr 7 2010, 01:06 PM']But actually ending up doing more harm than good in the long run. Every case is different. Like I said before I was sure I had carpel tunnel but I don't .

I can only play bass for a small amount of time, maybe two three songs on a shortscale before feeling the effects. I can't even make it to the chorus on daytripper before feeling 'the burn' on a 34"[/quote]
What sort of symptons? In the run up to getting my shoulder replaced around 5 years backI was finding that with a normal strap my left arm was going numb after a few songs. That was all down to weight on my knackered shoulder transferring down my arm. As a stop gap a Slider strap that distributed the weight of the bass better across both shoulders and my back.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Johnston' post='798628' date='Apr 7 2010, 01:06 PM']Or look at it this way I have a 10 month baby who at times is too strong for me to hold. How would you like to be sitting there unable to hold your own child because you followed a £5 book rather than going and seeking medical advice from someone looking at your specific problem. Turning a simple easily fixed problem into something more major and unrepairable.

Is it worth wrecking yourself, your future ,possibly ignoring an early symptom of something much worse just to avoid using one of the only free services we still have??[/quote]

ONLY sh*t DADS BUY THIS BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I don't think anyone's advocating buying a book instead of going to your GP! I've been to my useless GP and so i'm interested in the book. I suppose I should be more interested in finding a new GP

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='798601' date='Apr 7 2010, 12:38 PM']This isn't really the issue though. What I want to know is if there is anything in this idea of RSI being in the mind (mainly because my GP is sh*t). I suppose it entirely depends on the nature of the RSI, and to know that you'd need a diagnosis, which I don't have.[/quote]

Anyone more in the know than me feel free to correct the following, this is what I interpreted from my GP when I was having problems.

Tendonitis is the swelling of tendons caused by them rubbing repetitively in the same way for a long period of time. Swelling can go down and is healed, but if you do the wrong thing (like continue doing the thing that caused it) it can cause scarring which is a hell of a lot more difficult to get rid of and can be permanent.

Swollen and scarred tendons is definitely not in the mind. Whether or not you believe that the mind is stronger than the body and you can reduce swelling by certain mental exercises, the swelling and the scarring are certain physical problems and cannot be overlooked.

[cheddatom]

That seems quite definitive, thanks. I wouldn't know if it applies to me as I have no idea if it's tendonitis. My GP said "rest it, it's strained". I paid to see some osteopaths, and they said that my wrists are too thin for my tendons, and so they get strained. No idea what the implications are. They told me to increase strength in my wrist but every time I try to w*** it just hurts more.

[gman0001]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='799613' date='Apr 8 2010, 11:03 AM']That seems quite definitive, thanks. I wouldn't know if it applies to me as I have no idea if it's tendonitis. My GP said "rest it, it's strained". I paid to see some osteopaths, and they said that my wrists are too thin for my tendons, and so they get strained. No idea what the implications are. They told me to increase strength in my wrist but every time I try to w*** it just hurts more.[/quote]



OK everyone here took this post the wrong way. First of all to dismiss a theory you must learn about it, e.g. read the damn book. then you can fully understand it and well then make your mind up, criticise it, mock it... w/e.... not doing so, is like saying you hate custard without ever trying it, but just from hearing a description....

now here's my 50 cents.... I have been through the nightmare that is rsi. I have recovered 100%. I can now play guitar as much as I bloody well please and without worrying about rsi striking again. pfft

I had to deal with dropping out of music uni, and going through 7 months of physiotherapy, doctors, acupunture, massage, stretching... I had to stop playing guitar, stop using the computer and come home.

7 months later, when i was supose to be "cured" I started playing a little bit... only 15 mins or so... and well within the 1st week of playing I get the horrible pain again. The physio said, "some ppl just dont ever recover" "its tricky, you never know the outcome" This is a load of sh*t and while searching for another treatment I bumped into this book... I was skeptical but desperate... so I bought it and it took me roughly about a month to be pain free and ive been pain free for like 5 months.

here's the thing I would have NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS picked up this book at the start. NEVER. I would have laughed and said it was a load of bollocks. I only tried it because I had nothing else to do. I was desperate and in a lot of pain.... I would have taken up anything that could have help... and i'm bloody greatfull I found this book.

so to anyone who is suffering from rsi, or is affraid of rsi.... please read the book, you dont even have to buy it. You can get a copy from the library. Or read the stories online of ppl who have recovered using this theory. I will soon be making my own website with my story. You have nothing to loose.

If overuse of muscles really lead to injury... imagine.... would steve vai really be playing? (15 hours a day) Would there be any musicians (apart from lady gaga) around?

Conventional medicine blames rsi pain on INVISIBLE micro-tears and inflamation.... invisible... the "inflamation" is not like when you sprain a wrist or an ankle or bump your head. The arm appears normal. Hey maybe the inflamation is not there? ---- Is this theory really that credible?

and keeping this in mind... you might find this medical story quiet interesting, It talks about basically a doctor in the 19th century who's theory was ridiculed but eventually ended up saving millions of lifes and to this day his theory is still being used.:
[url="http://www.accessexcellence.org/AE/AEC/CC/hand_background.php"]http://www.accessexcellence.org/AE/AEC/CC/..._background.php[/url]

it just shows you, how new ideas and theorys are easily dismissed at first.


how hard is it to understand that your brain produces physiological changes (changes in you body) ... what about ppl who get hives from stress... or sweaty hands when nervous... or what do you think happens when you blush?.... or get lots of spots due to stress.... or hairloss... or weight problems like anorexia or bulimia... or irritable bowel syndrome.... headaches ... or stomach ulcers....

EVERYONE suffers from some sort of stress related condition. Why not RSI?


to end, if you're interested.... you might want to read the harvard students rsi site. it was both conventional and mindbody theorys. just look it up on google.

if you type "conquer rsi or rsi recovery sarno" on google you will also find plenty of sites that where created by ppl who have recovered using sarnos theory.


also just to be clear, the pain is not "in ur mind" thats bollocks... you look at someone whos suffering from stress related hives, for example (a really bad skin condition) and the condition is not in they're mind.... its induced by it.


Anywhoo, I hope this helps someone who's suffering! And to the flamers.... If you guys dont wise up, you WILL get rsi! Trust me. I've been there. Fear will get you in the end. So become informed...


and always remember PLAYING GUITAR OR BASS IS FUN AND SAFE, AND RISK-FREE. JUST ENJOY IT AND STOP WORRYING.

[gman0001]

[quote name='Johnston' post='799045' date='Apr 7 2010, 06:41 PM']I just get pins needles numbness general aches and pains in my lower arms, days the strength just completely goes from them. Sometimes when playing I get a clicking in my wrist. Even with a 34" on my knee I can feel it kicking in if doing any stretches .


My shoulders have been mentioned but they reckoned they'd check the nerve in my elbows first which was done a year ago. It's been a whole fiasco since the day I first got referred to a consultant 4 years ago. Plus been tested for the usual MS arthritis etc etc, then had them drop hints at that fibromythingy mic wotsit!!![/quote]


haha they told me I could have fribromyalgia too funnily that condition is very mysterious for doctors... no none cause... although it being linked to emotional factors... aparently stress makes it worst.... lol............ ......


oh another funny quote from my physio.... "when the person sues (the company) they never get better" me: "you mean the mind can affect wether the person gets well or not?" physio: "oh yes"

so if i break my leg at work and the doctor puts a cast on... If I sue my company for sh*t working enviroment... my leg wont get better? the bone wont heal? wwwww tttttt fffffffffff

[ThomBassmonkey]

Hey, check it out, someone signed up on the forum just to defend this book. He's even going to start his own website with how it saved his life!

Oh, and anyone flaming him will get RSI.

[quote name='"The Idiot"']And to the flamers.... If you guys dont wise up, you WILL get rsi![/quote]

I'm not even going to try and make a constructive post, the two (probably one in all reality, people don't randomly find and join forums to jump into a thread about a book) people (person) defending it are quite obviously giving bad advice by advising anything apart from going to the doctor about it.

[arsenic]

Ok....

Stressed? - Yep!
Played for over 30 years? - Yep!
RSI? - Nope!

- well that's blown that one out of the water -

"Fear will get you in the end" - all reading this book will do is make a real health issue worse, and lower your bank balance by £5.00

Maybe if I read it, the nerves in my neck that are crushed beyond repair, will magically get better - A five quid book that can better the marvels of medical science - I don't think so

This book just sounds like another one of those new-age fluffy bunny schemes to make money.....next thing he will tell us is that using a leach as a supository will cure in-grown toenails

Anybody who would set up a website to "spread the word" about this miricle cure is obviously a danger to society - an idiotic scheme like this could do irreprable damage to dozens of people who actually believe this BS.

[gman0001]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='806524' date='Apr 14 2010, 09:09 PM']Hey, check it out, someone signed up on the forum just to defend this book. He's even going to start his own website with how it saved his life!

Oh, and anyone flaming him will get RSI.



I'm not even going to try and make a constructive post, the two (probably one in all reality, people don't randomly find and join forums to jump into a thread about a book) people (person) defending it are quite obviously giving bad advice by advising anything apart from going to the doctor about it.[/quote]



Dude did you even read the "washing hands" article.... jesus... doctors are human, they can be wrong too.... Plus the guy who wrote the book is a doctor... and he is a proffessor at New york school of medicine.... graduated from columbia medical school, one of the best medical schools in the world.

all im trying to say, this book saved my playing career, when conventional treatment failed. You may loose £5 ... but i lost hundreds on physio.... maybe thousands on treatment. =/

[gman0001]

[quote name='arsenic' post='806561' date='Apr 14 2010, 09:37 PM']Ok....

Stressed? - Yep!
Played for over 30 years? - Yep!
RSI? - Nope!

- well that's blown that one out of the water -

"Fear will get you in the end" - all reading this book will do is make a real health issue worse, and lower your bank balance by £5.00

Maybe if I read it, the nerves in my neck that are crushed beyond repair, will magically get better - A five quid book that can better the marvels of medical science - I don't think so

This book just sounds like another one of those new-age fluffy bunny schemes to make money.....next thing he will tell us is that using a leach as a supository will cure in-grown toenails

Anybody who would set up a website to "spread the word" about this miricle cure is obviously a danger to society - an idiotic scheme like this could do irreprable damage to dozens of people who actually believe this BS.[/quote]


I said everyone has a stress related condition, yours simply isn't RSI. Thats like saying i'm stressed but I dont have irritable bowels syndrome! NOT EVERYONE WHO IS STRESSED GETS IT. Same as not everyone gets the hives. Or tension headaches or panic attacks from stress.


Maybe you have erectile dysfuncion? thats stress related.


Stress, emotional trauma = condition.


May it be physical like IBS/eretile dysfuntion/the hives/panic attacks. Or may it be psycological like anxiety or depression.



If you really want to argue you will have to read up mate. =/

[gman0001]

[quote name='gman0001' post='806605' date='Apr 14 2010, 10:11 PM']I said everyone has a stress related condition, yours simply isn't RSI. Thats like saying i'm stressed but I dont have irritable bowels syndrome! NOT EVERYONE WHO IS STRESSED GETS IT. Same as not everyone gets the hives. Or tension headaches or panic attacks from stress.


Maybe you have erectile dysfuncion? thats stress related.


Stress, emotional trauma = condition.


May it be physical like IBS/eretile dysfuntion/the hives/panic attacks. Or may it be psycological like anxiety or depression.



If you really want to argue you will have to read up mate. =/[/quote]




Well i've planted a seed. I wont be coming back, I really dont want to argue with anyone.... I just hope someone benefits from reading the book! =)


Best of luck everyone, including the flamers

[cheddatom]

It would be nice if gman had identified himself.

It would make sense that if no doctors can identify the root cause of an issue physically, that that issue might be psychological. The problem is the way it comes accross from the OP and gman is that [i]every [/i]RSI type condition is down to stress, when clearly there are lots of physical conditions which can be treated with the wonders of modern medicine.