New amp head unit - advice please :o)

[stilllifebass]

Morning!
I just found out my trusted Trace Elliott AH300-12 head has gone to the great head unit cemetery in the sky - well, not quite, it needs a new board which TE are mumbling about producing, which could take several months!

In the meantime I need to acquire a new head unit and I was hoping to get you guys opinions.

The music I'm playing is a rock/pop/alternative 5 piece (with 2 guitars) and I play a Status Series I 4-string. I have 2 Peavey cabs, 4x10 and 1x15 (likely to only use the 4 x10 the majority of the time). I'm looking for a punchy sound to bottom out the 5-piece sound, but also something smooth with good tones in the mid/upper register. I play with fingers only (don't believe in those plectrums!) and am looking for a "non-metallic" sound (not a big fan of Ampeg's, for example).

After some initial research I've got the following on the shortlist:

Gallien Kreuger 400 RB-IV
Markbass Little Mark 250

Would be much appreciated if you guys can give me your thoughts on the 2 above and any other possibles? Looking to spend £500 max.

Dave

Edited April 2, 2010 by stilllifebass

[chris_b]

The LM250 will only be putting out approx 100 watts into one 8 ohm cab. Is that enough?

I reckon you'll need at least 500 watts (300 watts into one cab) and that puts you into the LM2 area. Good second hand LM2's are about £400 and, in my opinion, if you try one you won't be going back to TE!

Oh! Look what I've got for sale!!

[Mog]

Stay away from the GK if you dont want a metallic tone. The markbass would be the better option. Have you thought about trying the Warwick Profet 5.2? 500watts @ 4ohm. About €450 so maybe £400ish in the Uk. Very versitle head.

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

I used to have a Trace Elliot combo. I now have Aguilar head and cab,which is amazing.
Think there was an Aguilar head on here for sale recently

[stilllifebass]

Thanks for your ideas guys.

I did read about the LMII the other day and there seems to be a growing consensus amongst people I've spoken to that this is the best amp the money and style of music I'm playing. (plus it's very light!).

Chris - thanks for the offer, however for another £130 or so a brand new LMIII becomes available. Will consider your offer though!

Mog - I'll have a look at the Profet, thanks for the heads up.

Ray - Aguilar heads do sound great but I think they may be out of my price range? PS Good to hear from a fellow Twickenham-ite though ;o)

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='Mog' post='794126' date='Apr 2 2010, 11:31 AM']Stay away from the GK if you dont want a metallic tone. The markbass would be the better option. Have you thought about trying the Warwick Profet 5.2? 500watts @ 4ohm. About €450 so maybe £400ish in the Uk. Very versitle head.[/quote]

I don't think I'm really understanding what you mean by metallic tone. I don't find GK's metallic at all and I play a 700RB-II into a 210RBH. They're brilliant amps, very clear but still very fat and punchy. I'd recommend one any day. I would go for the 700RB-II at least though. I find mine struggles a bit, but it's only going through a 2x10, if you're using a 4x10 or adding another another 15 on top of that, you should be fine.

£350 should pick you up a 700RB-II 2nd hand. £500 will get you a new one or a 2nd hand 1001RB-II head.

Edited April 4, 2010 by ThomBassmonkey

[richrips]

Ashdown Little Giant 1000!!!!

I ummmed and arrrrrrred about replacing my 900W monster rack mounted setup for a good while, tried a load of markbass, TC, Orange amps and couldn't hear the price difference in the sound. I've now had the Ashdown several months and it is a monster. very flexible tone and not clinical or metallic like some of the lightweight amps out there. oh and it's louder than almost all of them.

The only downside is the carry bag which is ergonomic and protective, but just doesn't match my hair at all.

Ashdown were great in responding to a few questions i had as well.

Try one out before you sell a kidney for a markbass.

Rich

[JTUK]

LMll can be available at decent prices. Lot of amp for the money and probably the most sought after backup/lightweight amp about.

Not sure what the more recent models have over it..?? happy to be advised though.

[OutToPlayJazz]

Another +1 for the Little Giant. Even with 8ohm cabs you'll still get around 5-600w. More than enough for most situations.

Otherwise, have a look for a used Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0...

[JTUK]

AFAICS, the diff btween LMll and LMlll is the DI pre/post stage which has a switch between the 2 and a output level control.

[Merton]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='796112' date='Apr 4 2010, 11:18 PM']Another +1 for the Little Giant. Even with 8ohm cabs you'll still get around 5-600w. More than enough for most situations.

Otherwise, have a look for a used Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0...[/quote]
Call me a pedant Rich (I know you will coz I know I am! ) but the LG is 2x 500W power amps, so you'd need 2 8 ohm cabs, one in each O/P to get 2x300W out of it. Is that what you were meaning?

[richrips]

[quote name='Merton' post='796379' date='Apr 5 2010, 11:16 AM']Call me a pedant Rich (I know you will coz I know I am! ) but the LG is 2x 500W power amps, so you'd need 2 8 ohm cabs, one in each O/P to get 2x300W out of it. Is that what you were meaning?[/quote]

Hi Merton,

Yes this comes up a lot and i never really see why.

for this to be a problem, you would have to own a single cab rated at well over 500w @ 4 ohm (or about 300w at 8 ohm). how many 4 ohm cabs are rated at over 500w?? not many. maybe a few monsters, mostly 8x10, 4x12 etc (many of which have stereo inputs anyway). Hence, almost everyone who wants to use more than 500w output power from an amp will have more than one cab with which to do so, hence this is not a problem. This is a lightweight amp. lightweight cabs, which most people would be logically looking to buy to match this with if they are going for fully light weight kit, are not going to be more than 500w @ 4 ohm.

I can see how some people have interpreted this as a problem, but i have yet to hear of anyone effected by this.

Other factors that negate this as a problem:

The audible difference between running 4 or 8 ohm cabs (of identical power rating) with the same amp is minimal. The relationship between watts and volume is much weaker than most people appreciate, with a 1000w amp only being twice as loud as a 100w amp.

Many class D amps feature this setup. it is rare to see a class D amp more than 500w which can run full power in mono. This for example:

[url="http://www.eden-electronics.com/products/amps/indiv/wtx1000n.aspx"]http://www.eden-electronics.com/products/a...v/wtx1000n.aspx[/url]

it may have a valve in it and a stereo preamp, but it is more than £1000 MORE than the ashdown and features what is apparently an identical power stage with the same 'apparent' problem you mention above.

I hope that makes sense?

Cheers,
Rich

[JackLondon]

Just go here and stretch your budget just a little, trust me it isn't "metallic" and it will be more than enough for you!
[url="http://www.bassmerchant.com/item_detail.php?product_id=37&category_id=2"]http://www.bassmerchant.com/item_detail.ph...p;category_id=2[/url]

Edited April 5, 2010 by JackLondon

[JackLondon]

[quote name='richrips' post='796469' date='Apr 5 2010, 12:34 PM']how many 4 ohm cabs are rated at over 500w??[/quote]

Aguilar GS 212 and DB 212, GK Neo 212 and 410, Eden D410, Bergantino 410, Genz Benz NEOX212, EBS Neo 212, MarkBass 104HR and HF, SWR golight 410, Epifani UL 210, 310, 410, Hartke HD410, Warwick WCA411 - all of this are not ''monsters'' and are normal typical cabs used by many people on this forum.

And that's just to name a few, I think you'll notice that more cabs are rated at 500W than you think. The problem with Ashdowns LG is they can't be bridged ( as it was with superfly) so until you get 4Ohm cabs you don't get the full power out of the amp. Simples as the meerkat would say

[richrips]

[quote name='JackLondon' post='796859' date='Apr 5 2010, 07:28 PM']Aguilar GS 212 and DB 212, GK Neo 212 and 410, Eden D410, Bergantino 410, Genz Benz NEOX212, EBS Neo 212, MarkBass 104HR and HF, SWR golight 410, Epifani UL 210, 310, 410, Hartke HD410, Warwick WCA411 - all of this are not ''monsters'' and are normal typical cabs used by many people on this forum.

And that's just to name a few, I think you'll notice that more cabs are rated at 500W than you think. The problem with Ashdowns LG is they can't be bridged ( as it was with superfly) so until you get 4Ohm cabs you don't get the full power out of the amp. Simples as the meerkat would say [/quote]

A few questions to reitterate the points made in my previous post:

How many of the above cabs could be considered lightweight?

how many of the above cabs cost less than £600 new?

How many of the above cabs could utilise all 1000w from the little giant even if it could run bridged?

I think most of the above cabs, although not rare, are most probably owned by a minority, not a majority of bass players. 500w from one side of the little giant 1000 will power the vast majority of cabs, particularly lightweight cabs (2x10, 1x12 etc), to their thermal limit, making it an excellent choice for the majority of bass players. The LG is a vast improvement over the superfly thanks to the solid state preamp (as opposed to the digital preamp in the superfly which was prone to glitches and sounding slow/airy/empty).

Realistically, there are very few situations where the lack of a bridging option is likely to be inhibative, especially when the amp is used with light weight or affordable cabs. I think this 'problem' is often mentioned in reference to the LG1000 and framed as being a big clear negative, when in fact the complexities of watts, ohms, percieved volume and cost mean that this problem is neither significant nor 'simples'.

Cheers,
Rich

[JackLondon]

Aguilar GS 212 - 70lbs - £569 [url="http://www.bassmerchant.com/item_detail.php?product_id=100&category_id=2"]http://www.bassmerchant.com/item_detail.ph...p;category_id=2[/url]
Aguilar DB 212 - 70lbs - £679 [url="http://www.bassmerchant.com/item_detail.php?product_id=90&category_id=2"]http://www.bassmerchant.com/item_detail.ph...p;category_id=2[/url]
GK Neo 212 - 50.5lbs - £499 [url="http://www.bassmerchant.com/item_detail.php?product_id=287&category_id=2"]http://www.bassmerchant.com/item_detail.ph...p;category_id=2[/url]
GK Neo 410 - 68lbs - £699 [url="http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/82548"]http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/82548[/url]
Eden D410 - 98lbs - around £900
Bergantino 410 - 85lbs - £859 [url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Bergantino_Bass_Cabinet_HS_Range.html"]http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_sp...t_HS_Range.html[/url]
Genz Benz NEOX212 - 52lbs - £699 [url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Genz_Benz_Neox_Cabs.html"]http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_sp..._Neox_Cabs.html[/url]
EBS Neo 212 - 53lbs - £781 [url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/EBS_Neoline_212.html"]http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_sp...eoline_212.html[/url]
MarkBass 104HR - 56lbs - around £850
MarkBass 104HF - 66lbs - around £850
SWR golight 410 - 56lbs - £959 [url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/SWR_GoLight.html"]http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_sp...WR_GoLight.html[/url]
Epifani UL210 - 38lbs - £630 [url="http://www.thebassgallery.com/product_details.cfm?ID=187&type=Bass"]http://www.thebassgallery.com/product_deta...7&type=Bass[/url] Cabinet
Epifani UL310 - 47lbs - £710 [url="http://www.thebassgallery.com/product_details.cfm?ID=183&type=Bass"]http://www.thebassgallery.com/product_deta...3&type=Bass[/url] Cabinet
Epifani UL410 - 57 lbs - £799 [url="http://www.thebassgallery.com/product_details.cfm?ID=182&type=Bass"]http://www.thebassgallery.com/product_deta...2&type=Bass[/url] Cabinet
Hartke HD410 - 68lbs - £499 [url="http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/75521"]http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/75521[/url]
Warwick WCA411 - 58lbs - around £700



Yes they are expensive but if you want light cabs you have to pay for it which really begs a questions what's the point of a lightweight and cheap ''powerful'' amp when you have to spend 3 times as much on a cab to get anything out of it.

I'm not here to argue but I've played through the LG on a gig and it doesn't cut it IMO.