An Ebay disaster in the making

[LukeFRC]

then that switch isnt original either!

[TDM]

The switch is for the LEDs/Laser. I read somewhere that Thumb 5 NTs from that year came with brass nuts, wenge necks and fretboards but they changed to the black nuts, ovangkol necks and ebony fretboards right around then too so there are both types from that year. I've also heard that Warwick use odd "pyramid" fretwire but I don't see how it's beneficial in any way to have frets so flat that it doesn't intonate. I've played a few Warwicks before and none of them had frets as flat as this.

Edited April 7, 2010 by thedonutman

[JMT3781]

[quote name='discreet' post='799088' date='Apr 7 2010, 07:10 PM']Was it an Ashdown?[/quote]


LOL no
Although i have blown two ashdowns up along the way

[ThomBassmonkey]

Personally I'd get a refund, if he's lied about the neck and frets (which are obviously in a bad way, however much/little work needs to be done) then I wouldn't have the confidence to trade with him in case there's anything else he's "forgotten" to mention.

[TDM]

I don't want to jump to any conclusions about lying. I think Rich might be right in saying he just didn't know. In the original listing the fretboard was also advertised as being Ebony and the body Bubinga Pommelle, whereas in actuality it's wenge and ordinary bubinga.

Regardless I need to get some/all my money back. If I get it all back I'll probably try to track down a [i]nice[/i] Thumb 4 NT because I love the sound of Thumbs.

Edited April 7, 2010 by thedonutman

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='799104' date='Apr 7 2010, 07:25 PM']if it is a 2002 one the nut's not original.


also my 1991 streamer has similarly shaped frets. I am not sure my old one's frets were different.Maybe my frets are worn too, Maybe they are made more that shape? Ask warwickhunt or someone.[/quote]

You rang?

I nearly bought this as a 'doer-up' project, was gonna take it back to natural!

The nut - As has been pointed out, the nut is not original hence the large gap (the JAN II/III that should be in place is a lot wider than the JAN I fitted) between truss rod cover and nut. The nut hasn't been fitted right up against the end of the fingerboard but that is an easy fix.

The frets - "They all do that sir"! I've seen worse... in fact my old red 91 bass is worse than that. <Edit> Just checked my Infinette which has never been gigged and has barely a few 100 hrs of use and that looks almost identical to your bass that apparently requires a refret I doubt it's something that a decent luthier (or even a cr*p one tbh) couldn't recrown and sort out but tbh Warwick frets are not like the skinny high frets you get on some basses.

Truss Rod - Yep it's a bugg3r if that is seized but again something I'd expect any decent luthier should be able to free up. ACTUALLY... thinking about it 2002 it should have a 2 way truss rod so you may just need to slacken the rod off and ensure it's working correctly but you are also correct in the fact that the necks of these basses are uber-rigid and not like some maple necks that require tweaking everytime they come home from/to a gig.

Your call at the end of the day but as I recall it was a bit of a bargain.

[MB1]

MB1.
Youve not actually said how much you paid for it so its difficult to give an opinion!.There isnt anything that couldnt be sorted Those Sims LEDS add £350 + to your price,the nut is one of the original brass ones(not a difficult job to sort out)..Frets and Trussrod...get a local luthier to check this over for ya!...he will more than likely advise you on paint removal too!...Could be a really Nice looking Bass!...I do like Warwick Thumbs!...Worth the Effort if it wasnt Too Steep!.

[XB26354]

[quote name='thedonutman' post='798983' date='Apr 7 2010, 05:41 PM']Last weekend I saw this Warwick Thumb 5 NT on Ebay for what I thought was a pretty decent price. I made an offer on monday and the seller accepted it. It was posted out on Thursday and, after spending the Easter weekend in the TNT depot in Rotherham, arrived yesterday.

So in short, ITEM NOT AS DESCRIBED!!!

I took the bass to Jon Shuker out in the peak district today and he said it would probably need a refret and a serious setup. If there are truss rod problems it'll get very very costly. I also sent of a lot of emails to various luthiers to get their opinion. General consensus is that it needs refretting and a setup at the least to fix the frets and nut. I sent he seller a very polite email detailing all of these issues and suggested that he could either give me a partial refund for me to get the bass repaired or he could give me all the money back and I'll send the bass back to him.

I really love the sound of the bass and I've been after a thumb ever since I started playing bass. Part of me is telling me to just get it all repaired and maybe even get it back to a natural oil finish (and get rid of those strap buttons) but another, more sensible, part of me is telling me to walk away when I still can because there might be other issues that I've not identified yet.

Please advice, Basschat![/quote]

This is most likely a custom shop Thumb - metallic paint job and (probably original) inlay on the board.
The nut was probably originally a plastic Just A Nut II, which is a bit wider than the brass JAN I, and was replaced, leaving a gap. The truss rod cover was screwed flush with where the original nut was glued in (I'd get a JAN III and get rid of the brass nut as it is a PITA when changing strings and doesn't add anything to the tone).
It's unlikely to be an old Warwick as it's looks as if there is a volute on the back of the neck and the pickups are MEC's (old 90's ones had Bartolinis and no volute).
The board looks like a very light wenge (got one on my SS1), needs about a litre of lemon oil. I don't think it needs a refret, but a fretstone - bell brass is very soft and Warwick frets mark easily. They don't look that low, just need profiling. The rod can be sorted - probably half of the 20+ Warwicks I've had, new and old, have had hard to move truss rods.
The burning question is how much did you pay for it? That's the only way to tell if it was worth keeping or replacing (PM me if you don't want to make it public).
Cheers
Mat

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='XB26354' post='799133' date='Apr 7 2010, 07:46 PM']This is most likely a custom shop Thumb - metallic paint job and (probably original) inlay on the board.
The nut was probably originally a plastic Just A Nut II, which is a bit wider than the brass JAN I, and was replaced, leaving a gap. The truss rod cover was screwed flush with where the original nut was glued in (I'd get a JAN III and get rid of the brass nut as it is a PITA when changing strings and doesn't add anything to the tone).
It's unlikely to be an old Warwick as it's looks as if there is a volute on the back of the neck and the pickups are MEC's (old 90's ones had Bartolinis and no volute).
The board looks like a very light wenge (got one on my SS1), needs about a litre of lemon oil. I don't think it needs a refret, but a fretstone - bell brass is very soft and Warwick frets mark easily. They don't look that low, just need profiling. The rod can be sorted - probably half of the 20+ Warwicks I've had, new and old, have had hard to move truss rods.
The burning question is how much did you pay for it? That's the only way to tell if it was worth keeping or replacing (PM me if you don't want to make it public).
Cheers
Mat[/quote]

Sorry Mat not wishing to derail the thread or pick an argument BUT MECs have been used in Warwicks from the late 80's alongside EMG/SD/Bartolini and the metal used in Warwick frets is 'renowned' for being a very hard metal. It's not unheard of for the odd Warwick to have a truss rod issue, especially some of the earliest ones but to have had a 50% failure rate on your Warwick truss rods... that's about as unlucky as you can get!

[TDM]

Thanks for the info. You are the fountain of all Warwick knowledge

Jon did actually mention that we *might* be able to get away with just a recrown but the frets are pretty low (probably the lowest of all the guitars/basses I've ever played) and they'll only get lower with a recrown.

The inlay was done by Sims - it's actually in their gallery. Admittedly it's not a great quality inlay. You can't see it in the pictures but there is a lot of filler and the MOP itself wasn't cut perfectly.

I paid £750 for it all in. A recrown, nut replacement with a JANIII and setup will cost ~£100 with Jon doing the work and he seems to be below average pricing wise. Add to that another hundred to get it refinished in oil (I've had experience with oil finishes myself, but having seem how many wires there are in the control cavity I'm not too sure I can reassemble it!) I think it might not be too worth it.

Edited April 7, 2010 by thedonutman

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='thedonutman' post='799141' date='Apr 7 2010, 07:53 PM']Add to that another hundred to get it refinished in oil (I've had experience with oil finishes myself, but having seem how many wires there are in the control cavity I'm not too sure I can reassemble it!) I think it might not be too worth it.[/quote]

Easy there mate! I'd budget a LOT more than £100 if someone is going to strip/refinish the bass; Warwick paints are notoriously thick and a swine to try and get off even with chemical strippers. Sweat and elbow grease is just about the best way to get the finish off. You'll be able to do it yourself for a lot less than £100 obviously but I know from experience that the guy who quoted me £150 to strip a NT Streamer that I had, basically brought it back a week later with cap in hand and apologised as he just couldn't do the job for the price quoted.

[throwoff]

[quote name='thedonutman' post='799141' date='Apr 7 2010, 07:53 PM']The inlay was done by Sims - it's actually in their gallery. Admittedly it's not a great quality inlay. You can't see it in the pictures but there is a lot of filler and the MOP itself wasn't cut perfectly.[/quote]

Don't want to sound harsh but the fact your reading that much into it seems like perhaps your just entirely unhappy with it. It seems your now finding fault with everything on the bass. Im really not criticising, its a natural reaction when your dissapointed with something.

Personally I am not 100% the nut needs changing, in fact the JAN original is quite desirable now days and still offered as a custom option on new Warwicks.
I think it just needs adjusting back into place.

Fret's probably need a change rather than a crown but thats just my opinion, as for the refinish hmm I never know with a solid finish like that, I can understand why you would want natural oil but its a big job and you never know whats underneath!

EDIT - Also serial number?

Edited April 7, 2010 by throwoff

[warwickhunt]

If you do keep it and decide to go for a refret then the Warwick shop can supply precut frets for your bass in the original material; it's not worth using any other wire as you'll really devalue the bass further if a Warwick fan wants to buy it.

[throwoff]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='799154' date='Apr 7 2010, 08:05 PM']If you do keep it and decide to go for a refret then the Warwick shop can supply precut frets for your bass in the original material; it's not worth using any other wire as you'll really devalue the bass further if a Warwick fan wants to buy it. [/quote]

Agreed Bell Brass is wonderful

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='thedonutman' post='799119' date='Apr 7 2010, 07:38 PM']I don't want to jump to any conclusions about lying. I think Rich might be right in saying he just didn't know. In the original listing the fretboard was also advertised as being Ebony and the body Bubinga Pommelle, whereas in actuality it's wenge and ordinary bubinga.[/quote]

There's ignorance and there's lying. If the fret or neck quality hadn't been mentioned, fair enough. But since they were noted as being in good nick, it's a deliberately stated fact that's wrong.

At best, the seller was talking out of his arse, which wouldn't make me trust him any more than if he'd been lying.

Maybe I'm just being super cynical because I've had a long day, but if someone has described something that isn't true, I wouldn't trust anything they said without good reason.

[TDM]

[quote name='throwoff' post='799148' date='Apr 7 2010, 08:01 PM']Don't want to sound harsh but the fact your reading that much into it seems like perhaps your just entirely unhappy with it. It seems your now finding fault with everything on the bass. Im really not criticising, its a natural reaction when your dissapointed with something.

Personally I am not 100% the nut needs changing, in fact the JAN original is quite desirable now days and still offered as a custom option on new Warwicks.
I think it just needs adjusting back into place.

Fret's probably need a change rather than a crown but thats just my opinion, as for the refinish hmm I never know with a solid finish like that, I can understand why you would want natural oil but its a big job and you never know whats underneath!

EDIT - Also serial number?[/quote]

Actually, other than the amazing tone, the other main reason I like this bass is the Sims stuff. I've always wanted something with LEDs (Even if it's just a novelty) and it's also a massive coincidence that the inlays happen to be my initials I am just a very critical person in general. For example, my Spector is probably the best bass I've played/owned yet the first thing I noticed after getting it was the slightly sloppy inlay work.

The current nut seems to be narrower than the neck at that point, not as annoying as the gap but still a bit annoying none the less.

Where is the serial number located?

I agree with you about the refinish, but the finish has chipped off all over the place and being a Warwick I'd hope they would use reasonably nice bubinga, even for solid colours

Can any other Warwick owners recommend any luthiers they trust to do this sort of work? If there is nobody else out there who is particularly knowledgeable about Warwicks I'll probably get the work done by Jon Shuker, as he is very local and he has done great work for me in the past.

EDIT: Has anybody had any experience with Jack Phillips of [url="http://www.guitarmender.com/Repairs.html"]Black Dragon[/url] guitars? He claims to be the country's dedicated Warwick repair guy and he was the one who quoted me £100 for the refinish. I'm not convinced by how good his work may actually be though.

Edited April 7, 2010 by thedonutman

[XB26354]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='799140' date='Apr 7 2010, 07:52 PM']Sorry Mat not wishing to derail the thread or pick an argument BUT MECs have been used in Warwicks from the late 80's alongside EMG/SD/Bartolini and the metal used in Warwick frets is 'renowned' for being a very hard metal. It's not unheard of for the odd Warwick to have a truss rod issue, especially some of the earliest ones but to have had a 50% failure rate on your Warwick truss rods... that's about as unlucky as you can get! [/quote]

I stand corrected!
I'm not sure that the metal in Warwick frets is that hard. It depends on exactly what combination they use but bell brass (or bronze) is not a particularly hard metal. They mark easily (I don't mean discolouration but scoring and flattening of the fret).
I mentioned MEC's because I've seen tons of early- to mid-90's models and not one of them had MEC's!
/end-derail

Compared to the original retail price it's very cheap, but in the current climate for s/h Warwicks I think it should be the price paid [i]after[/i] all the work is done at the very most. If the OP likes it then I'd get £150 off. If he still doesn't like it I'll have it

[plankspanker]

Personally i'd get a refund and look elsewhere - it's not like there's a worldwide bass shortage on is there? I think that if you keep it then it will always be in the back of your mind that some other problem will appear. For something as personal as a bass I would never buy without seeing and trying first - even if you have to drive half the length of the country, so what? It's very to get a nice instrument that someone looked after before you or to buy one that you know is a "do-er upper" but methinks you've got a pup.

[hagguy]

i had a similar thing happen, i bought a gibson les paul
off ebay years back and when it turned up, i was like a
kid at christmas, firstly it was in a gigbag which i thought odd
pulled it out, two broken tuning pegs, couple strings missing
and it looked like a fake, had a closer look at the headstock
and discovered it was painted over with a "gibson" decal on it
scraped back, the paint, turned out to be a hondo II whatever that
is.

if you can get your money back, take it and buy another thumb
that is in better nick, if you don't want to spend money fixing it up
then thats the answer, if you keep it you will just keep finding faults
and things that will annoy you. at least your not having to deal with
something that was as badly described as my lp

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='thedonutman' post='799166' date='Apr 7 2010, 08:14 PM']Can any other Warwick owners recommend any luthiers they trust to do this sort of work?[/quote]

Dave Wilson - Haltwhistle (ex-Overwater).

[TDM]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'm overwhelmed by the number of replies to this within just a few hours!

I guess it's now just a case of waiting to see what, if anything, the seller says. Hopefully push won't come to shove with this!

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='799255' date='Apr 7 2010, 09:26 PM']Dave Wilson - Haltwhistle (ex-Overwater).[/quote]

... but it'll cost more than £100!

[gub]

Good luck with it all fella,i have an aria pro sb 1000 which i have won on e bay turning up on friday and was feeling pretty nervous about it but after reading your thread am now bricking it! lol

[xilddx]

Looking at this thread, for me, the only saving grace here is the LEDs. I think for a SH Thumb in that condition, £750 is pushing it. If he'd have been upfront about the neck and frets it might have gone a lot cheaper, who knows?

[Kev]

Id send it back to him on the grounds it wasn't sold as advertised. From what i know of the market, i would not say 750 was a bargain at all for the condition of this bass, i certainly wouldn't have gone for it at that price. Send it back, save a couple hundred more and no doubt a MUCH better bass will come along.