Do I even need to get a 5 string?!

[Musicman20]

Hi everyone

Ever since my bass playing became serious again early last year, I've become much better like I used to be. I've also obtained some very nice gear.

Since this period of gear buying started, I've been looking at getting a 5 string bass.

When I was 13/14, I bought a tanglewood 5 string and hated it. Sold it and got a MIJ Fender Precision.

I've recently tried a Warwick Streamer 5, USA Jazz 5, and a few Lakland 5s. Only the laklands worked for me in the neck dept. I have thought about a Ray 5 as well.

So, after advice from JTUK and a few other chaps, I'm thinking, do I even need a 5 string?! I don't think any of the music I listen to go below drop d. All my favourite players play traditional 4 string basses.

I found when I play 5 strings I barely use the lower notes. I may use the different hand positions, but that's it.

Should I just stick with 4s for now and continue to build up my slap/fingerstyle instead of taking on one 5 string bass that I may end up not using?!

I think I just want to tick it off, eg 'yep, 5 string covered'. Maybe a fretless 4 would be better for new skills?!

[The inglourious bass turd]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='800408' date='Apr 9 2010, 12:08 AM']Hi everyone

Ever since my bass playing became serious again early last year, I've become much better like I used to be. I've also obtained some very nice gear.

Since this period of gear buying started, I've been looking at getting a 5 string bass.

When I was 13/14, I bought a tanglewood 5 string and hated it. Sold it and got a MIJ Fender Precision.

I've recently tried a Warwick Streamer 5, USA Jazz 5, and a few Lakland 5s. Only the laklands worked for me in the neck dept. I have thought about a Ray 5 as well.

So, after advice from JTUK and a few other chaps, I'm thinking, do I even need a 5 string?! I don't think any of the music I listen to go below drop d. All my favourite players play traditional 4 string basses.

I found when I play 5 strings I barely use the lower notes. I may use the different hand positions, but that's it.

Should I just stick with 4s for now and continue to build up my slap/fingerstyle instead of taking on one 5 string bass that I may end up not using?!

I think I just want to tick it off, eg 'yep, 5 string covered'. Maybe a fretless 4 would be better for new skills?![/quote]


[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=83182"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=83182[/url]

All these guys are playing 4s - if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me!

[witterth]

the fact that I've never got on with a fiver is irrelevant
....crap flappy string near your thumb...
but as some forum members swear by them (ask Sarah By the same name!!) for instance, its only an opinion, but a hipshot "d" tuner and a octaver does the same job and gives an impression of that low B or general. or low(er)end stuff.
dont see the point of high string tuning ( but I'm not bright enough to be a propper jazzer!!!) so I'd stick with a 4
as I say no more than an opinion......
I do think in the "heat of the night" fivers get in the way,.. but by the same token Ive seen some damn fine 5 players over the years.....bloody hell I'm no help (again) am I?

[JTUK]

Depends how you approach it..

I think you need to be hearing what you can do with a low note... I have a few little trade mark things I do that involve low notes and I'll adapt that into a song. I never bother ripping off bass-lines note for note so I have space and license to do what I want to the track.
I try and get the essense and then go from there... this is the freedom that I have and want...


If you concentrate more on getting the line from the record or track, and you stay in the key of the track..and most are played on 4's then, no, you don't need a 5.

I wouldn't change for any reason that it was making sense to me to do so. I changed because we were recording tracks that shouted out 5... and then I got fed up with drop tuning...
In the studio that was ok---ish..but a real head-f*** live...playing and tuning it betwen numbers in double quick time etc etc ...

Case in point.. "I wish" from the D. Easy to keep that riff just in the one register as per the track... but if you play around with it through 2 octaves..and one of those picking up the line from the low B...????

You either hear this or want to do it... there aren't many references of it to copy.. or you don't.

Not saying either is right or wrong... but going 5 for me was a MAJOR hassle so to go that way needs a driving reason.

Once I got comfortable on the 5 ..and it took 18 months or so..I sold all my 4's...
Now, I would never go back...

I don't think you have a real reason to do it...but then some people say they consider swapping over easy and not an issue.
Maybe it will that way for you...

I would drop tune the E a tone or so and see how that works... at least you'll hear the way the lower note works in some songs even if you have to contend with fretting over a fifth...

And if you get a good B string... not a given, IME.. it is great to have that huge defined low note. A low D or C can have so much impact in a chorus or bridge..

[witterth]

[quote name='JTUK' post='800434' date='Apr 9 2010, 12:50 AM']Depends how you approach it..

I think you need to be hearing what you can do with a low note... I have a few little trade mark things I do that involve low notes and I'll adapt that into a song. I never bother ripping off bass-lines note for note so I have space and license to do what I want to the track.
I try and get the essense and then go from there... this is the freedom that I have and want...


If you concentrate more on getting the line from the record or track, and you stay in the key of the track..and most are played on 4's then, no, you don't need a 5.

I wouldn't change for any reason that it was making sense to me to do so. I changed because we were recording tracks that shouted out 5... and then I got fed up with drop tuning...
In the studio that was ok---ish..but a real head-f*** live...playing and tuning it betwen numbers in double quick time etc etc ...

Case in point.. "I wish" from the D. Easy to keep that riff just in the one register as per the track... but if you play around with it through 2 octaves..and one of those picking up the line from the low B...????

You either hear this or want to do it... there aren't many references of it to copy.. or you don't.

Not saying either is right or wrong... but going 5 for me was a MAJOR hassle so to go that way needs a driving reason.

Once I got comfortable on the 5 ..and it took 18 months or so..I sold all my 4's...
Now, I would never go back...

I don't think you have a real reason to do it...but then some people say they consider swapping over easy and not an issue.
Maybe it will that way for you...

I would drop tune the E a tone or so and see how that works... at least you'll hear the way the lower note works in some songs even if you have to contend with fretting over a fifth...

And if you get a good B string... not a given, IME.. it is great to have that huge defined low note. A low D or C can have so much impact in a chorus or bridge..[/quote]
now you see...... he's thought it out!!

[ThomBassmonkey]

If you find your hand moving about more than you'd like or that you run out of notes at the business end, then you should look into a 5er.

You could always try stringing up a 4er BEAD (if you don't need the G) and see where your hand takes you.

In all honesty, I don't think you'll know for certain whether or not you could use one unless you get one and use it for long enough to get used to it and incorporate it in your playing properly.

[Musicman69]

Hmm .. 18 months at drop D then, what, another 18 if you decide you like it?
Lets not be hasty here.

[witterth]

[quote name='Musicman69' post='800453' date='Apr 9 2010, 01:28 AM']Hmm .. 18 months at drop D then, what, another 18 if you decide you like it?
Lets not be hasty here.[/quote]
So what do you mean Mr Musicman69?......
detune or not? 4or5 or a detune? in your opinion?
not having a go( )just don't get your point

I often miss the point here ....sorry

[Doddy]

I've been playing my 5's pretty much all the time over the last couple of years. Some people
write charts specifically in the lower register,so I really need it for that,where as on other gigs I
may never even touch the low B (or high C if I'm using the 6). I may shift position and play higher
up the 'board on the 5,just for a change, but I never use the low B just because it's there.
One of my favourite things to do,is to play a low D or C or whatever,maybe once or twice a night
for just a few notes. That way it becomes noticable and adds weight. I hate when you see guys on a 5
and they spend all night camping out in the lowest register.If there is a guitar solo and the Bass player stays
down low,there is a huge frequency gap between the two and it sounds so empty.

[Musicman69]

[quote name='witterth' post='800459' date='Apr 9 2010, 01:43 AM']So what do you mean Mr Musicman69?......
detune or not? 4or5 or a detune? in your opinion?
not having a go( )just don't get your point

I often miss the point here ....sorry [/quote]

Ok Mr Witterth,
I was referring to jtuk post..
I think the OP should know after a couple o weeks at most if drop D is going to suit and not to waste months deciding what to do.
Its easy to get sidetracked with stuff that is actually of no benefit at all. Best to be on the look-out for it and nip it in the bud, so to speak.

[JTUK]

You could try the drop D or as you have spare basses...restring a Bass to the lower tuning... or down a tone or two if you want.

You might get away with this if you don't use light gauges..and can transpose intervals easily...
This might be confusing unless you are used to it..but just might give you a feel for it.

You wouldn't want to be messing around with a drop D for long.. it is not worth the hassle, and is pretty limited, IMV.

[Grand Wazoo]

The most important thing that you must appreciate about 5 string basses, which is largely overlooked by the un-initiated, is a concept that only those who own them and play them "get it" and that is not that a 5 string bass just allows you to play 4 notes below the low E [b]not at all[/b], in fact you are right very seldom it is required for a band playing ordinary songs to play below that, however the beauty of a 5 strings bass and what makes them really really clever is that if you are playing up the neck, say half way between frets 7 to 10 and you need to hit a low F, you would need to jump all the way back to the 1st fret on the E string to get that, whereas with a "fiver" you will save time and hand travelling effor by simply hitting that F on the B strings on the 6th fret or a G on 8th fret and so forth. Essentially, once you have trained your hand/brain (and believe me it doesn't take long, a month or two max) to travel distances across the strings rather than longitudinally across the neck, you will find it a lot easier to play, saving energy in fast runs, which in the end it makes a hell of a lot of difference when you are playing a 12 songs set every night.

So in conclusion whoever was the first person that invented the 5 strings bass didn't do it for the simple benefit of adding 4 lower notes but to make life easy for bass players who are having to deal with such a long neck facilitating a new approach to a wider range of notes within a shorter space.

On a 4 string bass a 2 octave scale will have you chainging posision almost every 3 notes whereas you can do a whole 2 octave major scale on a 5 string bass with one position change only!

Once I got that concept registered in my brain it has been difficult switching back to 4 strings and I know I am not alone as all other 5ers I know out there all share my same feelings.

Oh and best ever 5 string necks are Stingrays, no doubt about, no flappy low b, tight as f*** and plenty percussive resonance to boot.

[Doddy]

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' post='800470' date='Apr 9 2010, 02:18 AM'][edit]
you will find it a lot easier to play, saving energy in fast runs, which in the end it makes a hell of a lot of difference when you are playing a 12 songs set every night.

So in conclusion whoever was the first person that invented the 5 strings bass didn't do it for the simple benefit of adding 4 lower notes but to make life easy for bass players who are having to deal with such a long neck facilitating a new approach to a wider range of notes within a shorter space.

On a 4 string bass a 2 octave scale will have you chainging posision almost every 3 notes whereas you can do a whole 2 octave major scale on a 5 string bass with one position change only!

Once I got that concept registered in my brain it has been difficult switching back to 4 strings and I know I am not alone as all other 5ers I know out there all share my same feelings.[/quote]

12 song sets???? Bloody Hell-you do short gigs.

As far as the string being added to make life easier......You are half right. The first Fender 5 was made with the intention of
playing across the 'board rather than along it,but it had a high C. The low B on an electric bass, was actually about reaching lower notes that were available on keyboards but not on a bass guitar.

You can actually play a 2 octave scale on a 4 string with only one position shift-however you need a 5 fret stretch. It's still totally
do-able though.

Although I mostly using a 5 string lately,I still use a 4 for quite alot of things. I've never found it to be that big of a change,
to be honest.

[Dom in Dorset]

Sold my five string a few years ago- never looked back.

[Clarky]

Based on the lines I play I only need a three string (EAD) with 12 fets (and thats pushing it on the fret front, I could make do with 7)

[witterth]

[quote name='Musicman69' post='800467' date='Apr 9 2010, 02:04 AM']Ok Mr Witterth,
I was referring to jtuk post..
I think the OP should know after a couple o weeks at most if drop D is going to suit and not to waste months deciding what to do.
Its easy to get sidetracked with stuff that is actually of no benefit at all. Best to be on the look-out for it and nip it in the bud, so to speak.[/quote]
MMmm, yeah good point Mr M!
good advice that!!
I know my E string is up and down like a lady of ill reputes drawers all night!!....so, now you mention it, good call on that
(must get round to buying a hipshot) though I am worried about putting it on myself!
(Mr)Witterth

[rjb]

IMHO the best way to approach a fiver is to switch towards a floating thumb style technique. Playing with an anchor on a 5 will work for some, but most will encounter muting issues. Problems with strings ringing can make a five string bass bass feel very cramped and unruly to play.

With the floating thumb playing the extra string gets reduced to the simple issue of lifting your right wrist a little higher.

I love five stringers as I can play far more stuff in the middle of the neck. I rarely need to play a low B, but it's nice to have. I also don't like fiddling about with tunings.

Edited April 9, 2010 by rjb

[purpleblob]

"Do I need to get a 5 string?"

Only you can tell whether you need to get one. Do you play (or intend to play) anything that needs to go below E (or dropped to a D) or do you need a high C for anything you play ? If not then why bother with a 5.

[johnnylager]

Horses for courses - I now use a 5 for the covers band in an rjb style & a 4 for the punk band in a Clarkey style [12 frets for me though mate ]. I find the 4 remarkably easy to play after the 5, but I am only 2 months into my 5-ship and it's a good one.

I probably don't [i]need[/i] a 5, but I wanted one and I guess it came down to that.

Edited April 9, 2010 by johnnylager

[dave_bass5]

As someone who thought he did i can tell you i dont.
They are useful and i will get another one day but i dont need one to play the songs i play. Even songs written on 5 string are manageable on 4, you just need to play them differently.

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' post='800470' date='Apr 9 2010, 02:18 AM']The most important thing that you must appreciate about 5 string basses, which is largely overlooked by the un-initiated, is a concept that only those who own them and play them "get it" and that is not that a 5 string bass just allows you to play 4 notes below the low E [b]not at all[/b], in fact you are right very seldom it is required for a band playing ordinary songs to play below that, however the beauty of a 5 strings bass and what makes them really really clever is that if you are playing up the neck, say half way between frets 7 to 10 and you need to hit a low F, you would need to jump all the way back to the 1st fret on the E string to get that, whereas with a "fiver" you will save time and hand travelling effor by simply hitting that F on the B strings on the 6th fret or a G on 8th fret and so forth. Essentially, once you have trained your hand/brain (and believe me it doesn't take long, a month or two max) to travel distances across the strings rather than longitudinally across the neck, you will find it a lot easier to play, saving energy in fast runs, which in the end it makes a hell of a lot of difference when you are playing a 12 songs set every night.

So in conclusion whoever was the first person that invented the 5 strings bass didn't do it for the simple benefit of adding 4 lower notes but to make life easy for bass players who are having to deal with such a long neck facilitating a new approach to a wider range of notes within a shorter space.

On a 4 string bass a 2 octave scale will have you chainging posision almost every 3 notes whereas you can do a whole 2 octave major scale on a 5 string bass with one position change only!

Once I got that concept registered in my brain it has been difficult switching back to 4 strings and I know I am not alone as all other 5ers I know out there all share my same feelings.

Oh and best ever 5 string necks are Stingrays, no doubt about, no flappy low b, tight as f*** and plenty percussive resonance to boot.[/quote]

Without thinking it through as eloquently as the Grand Wazoo, this is how I came to 5 strinq playing. I used to play rhythm guitar in a big band so loads of Bb, Ab, Eb -. When I returned to bass and started playing at jam nights I was completely b*ggered playing in open E - which let's face it, is every jam night guitarist's favourite key. With a five string I was much happier playing from the B string at the 5th fret. The other big plus key is D - on a four string you're almost in the guitar register and too far up the dusty end.

Having said all that, after playing a lot of EUB recently, I'm toying with teh idea of giving a four string another go.

[Toasted]

Remember you've got a D 2 frets below every E as well - no need to detune for most songs.

[Bilbo]

Got a six then a five but never really used them. Now selling my Status 5 with no intention of replacing it. The low B thing is a perfectly useful tool but it certainly isn't a 'must have'. As for the not having to make big jumps for the low F, when do any of us ever have to move that quickly that the jump isn't perfectly achievable? IME, every musician has more technique than they know how to use creatively and having an extra string is rarely a defining aspect of their playing.

I find the low B's undermine the overall stability of my sound - I work hard on integrating my sound within the music I play (my intention is to have it 'disappear' into the ensemble) and have done so quite successfully over the years. Whenever I have a low B, it sticks out like a sore thumb and interferes with my overall concept. Don't really like them (although I love Anthony Jackson and Flim Johnson, I don't feel the need to emulate them).

[OutToPlayJazz]

Again, it's horses for courses. I use my 5's a lot as quite a lot of the parts I play are written down there. Even if it's only a couple of notes, the fiver is useful. In non-written music, I find myself using the B string a lot, yes. As others have noted, it provides more routes to the E-string notes and greater "working across the strings" options.

The other consideration I find is speed. Obviously with the neck being wider on any given 5, it's going to be a little more ponderous than a super fast 4. I ended up playing the panto on a 4 because there were some wickedly fast parts that I just couldn't get around on a 5-string neck quite quick enough.

Rich.

[Musicman20]

Many thanks chaps.

My aim with a 5 string was a lovely superjazz or a stingray 5. I did think about a custom 5er but realised it was daft to spend £2.5k on an instrument I wasn't 100% on.

I tried a few superjazzers and I didn't like the tone.

If I'm honest I haven't yet played a 5 string where the b didn't sound 'wrong' or like something a metal band would use. That's just in my search though. I need to test a Ray 5 properly. Lakland was close...but I couldn't deal with some of the bad qc I came across which I never expected.