cheddatom Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 At least in London some people might turn up, and maybe one of them will be in the music industry. I had a soundman refuse to take a DI post EQ 'cos he said my EQ was too extreme, before he'd heard it, or tried it. I said "I like my EQ like that, aren't you just supposed to make me sound louder?" and he said "no, I'm supposed to make you sound good", which has to be the most arrogant thing i've ever had said to me. Still, I just let him do what he wanted. Everyone thought I sounded crap in the audience, but it sounded good on stage, so I enjoyed myself. It's good to have a relaxed attitude towards these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colda Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Arrrggghhhh!!!!! I really do find this kinda behaviour annoying! Being a soundman myself - the soundman's job (in a live situation) is that of _sound reinforcement_, in a studio where a producer is involved then there is a factor of 'making you sound good' (in terms of changing your sound). In a live situation it should be a case of making the sound the best it can be with the given elements - not feckin' changing it to suit! Of course sound is subjective (I tend to be bass heavy - wonder why? *grin*) but the soundguy is there as a medium between performer and audience, using eq to ensure that all elements are balanced, layered and well defined - not try to redefine things Yeah, this is a touchy subject for me! - I take pride in my engineering and enjoy the regular comliments, it's not rocket science and I just don't get 'engineers' that seem to think themselves as something from the planet krypton - tossers! Now, I'm ranting there also the guitarists (and bassists) that think that soundchecks are just a passtime for me and when they get on stage for their main performance the first thing they do it turn up their volume and f**k up the sound......no, I'll save that rant for another time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 [quote name='colda' post='96552' date='Nov 30 2007, 11:04 AM']Now, I'm ranting there also the guitarists (and bassists) that think that soundchecks are just a passtime for me and when they get on stage for their main performance the first thing they do it turn up their volume and f**k up the sound......no, I'll save that rant for another time[/quote] As a non-engineer I completely understand.. whats the point in doing a soundcheck! It seems that so many bands don't really know what a soundcheck is for! I have even seen some pro bands stand there and use the time to ensure that their guitar solos sound nice, instead of actually giving the engineer some space to sound check the drummer's 40 piece megakit lol... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 To be fair though, i've played loads of gigs where there are multiple bands, and everyone was asked to do a sound check, but the sound guy changed all the settings for every band, and never wrote anything down. I fail to see how he manages to remember the levels, let alone the EQ for 4-6 different bands, and to be honest, I don't think he even tries. They normally forget to mic my guitar amp, and probably forget to turn it up when i've mic'd it up 'cos i'm a bassist, and I only deserve a DI. We don't bother sound checking at these kind of venues any more, it's a pointless waste of time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colda Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 [quote name='cheddatom' post='96626' date='Nov 30 2007, 12:52 PM']To be fair though, i've played loads of gigs where there are multiple bands, and everyone was asked to do a sound check, but the sound guy changed all the settings for every band, and never wrote anything down. I fail to see how he manages to remember the levels, let alone the EQ for 4-6 different bands, and to be honest, I don't think he even tries. They normally forget to mic my guitar amp, and probably forget to turn it up when i've mic'd it up 'cos i'm a bassist, and I only deserve a DI. We don't bother sound checking at these kind of venues any more, it's a pointless waste of time![/quote] we normally put on 3 bands on a night - I can't remember the last time I wrote anything down - but yeah I do remember the settings - where there are major changes in the eq I will tend to use another channel on the desk, also the headline act checks first and thereafter it's only a really a case of remembering what was altered which seems to come naturally - also the eq (both channel and FOH mix) settings taken in soundcheck will alter a little later in the night for the actual performance due to the change in atmosphere (air pressure/humidity), temperature, bodies (absorbing sound) in the room etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Well, obviously you're a good sound guy, but maybe i've mis-read some others. Reading your post though, it would seem pointless for any but the first band on to sound check, so that you have a good starting point and can work on your mix throughout the gig. Still, you make a good point about the sound changing when the audience is in, which again begs the question of the point of the sound check. For me, the only time there is any point in the sound check is when I have a monitor, and a sound man willing to set up a good monitor mix. He will mess with the FOH mix once we're playing anyway. Obviously if you have very different line-ups then sound checks will be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colda Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 There is certainly some truth when bands are using similar/same kit/backline in soundchecks for support acts being more of a placebo effect thing, but they are important in cases such as 'my' venue as it's 300 capacity and so the backline has a direct influence on FOH (hence me getting mighty f**ked off when peeps turn their levels up after soundcheck) Also, as you mentioned getting the monitor mix right is another factor, it's sometime quite funny when we get bands that arn't used to monitors - most of the soundcheck is spent tweaking the various monitor mixes so it's all 'perfect' - I'm happy to do it, and it's really nice as bands tend to appreciate it, then as the're happy they have a better gig all round If you are confident in your sound and the engineers is not a total eejut then it's possible to avoid a soundcheck and the engineer can then use headphones for quick channel eq's and should be able to get you sorted by the time you're into the first chorus without any effect on the audience - it really does help though if you have a good idea of the foundation FOH eq settings for your band i.e. 'plenty top end and some 1k boost on lead vox, bottom end boost for BV, push top end on lead, bottom end and mids on rythmn, kick should have a crack to it.......'. A technical rider with guide eq's channel mixes and preferred monitor mixes is a godsend - I wish more bands did this, it helps the engineer, cut soundchecks right down, everyone is happier and the band get the sound they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 [quote name='colda' post='96690' date='Nov 30 2007, 02:27 PM']A technical rider with guide eq's channel mixes and preferred monitor mixes is a godsend - I wish more bands did this, it helps the engineer, cut soundchecks right down, everyone is happier and the band get the sound they want.[/quote] What a good idea, i've never heard of this before! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colda Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 [quote name='cheddatom' post='96712' date='Nov 30 2007, 03:01 PM']What a good idea, i've never heard of this before![/quote] Nor had I until I got one from The Flaming Moes (Sweden) earlier this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 [quote name='colda' post='96719' date='Nov 30 2007, 03:04 PM']Nor had I until I got one from The Flaming Moes (Sweden) earlier this year [/quote] Jumping in on a very old thread, Hope you guys are all still here ... - Flaming Moes? certainly one of the best Simpsons episodes ever - Did you bin your PD7? I may be looking to buy one - Colda, can you show us an example of the stuff hey specified in some way? I'd love to please the sound man when we use one. As a sax player I suffered from poor attitudes and monitors for years before having a lesson from a good sound man on what to ask for. That guy worked with us a number of times and remembered our preferences every time -The soundcheck then consisted of half a tune's run through - in total. Genius and everyone was so much happier. He also made sure he sent his runner up to the stage to check everyone was happy with the monitor mix after the first number. If you've ever tried to communicate "can I have a tad less bass and a little more 2k on this monitor here, please" with a sound man at the back of a dark hall when he seems to have his head down over his knobs for the first 15 minutes you'll appreciate how good that was for us. Better stage sound > Happier band > better gig > more appreciative crowd > praise and more work for the sound man (and band) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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