Getting a double bass sound

[mrsteely]

Hi There
My band have decided to stick in a couple of oldies, namely Heart Attack and Vine by Tom Waits and the classic Heartbreak Hotel. To get the sound right I've been asked to try to replicate a double bass sound. Does anyone have any tips?

I'll be playing through a Hartke LH500 into a 4x10 or possibly a 4x15 with a 4 string Thunderbird (The only bass I own, although I may be able to aquire an acoustic Bass). I've tried damping the strings with a sock! (in place a more suitable foam mute) which kinda works but I'm still not happy with it.

Any technique pointers or pedals would be a great help.

Oh and if anyone knows how to play Heart attack and Vine or knows where to get the Music / Tab from I'd be eteranally gratefull as its a nightmare to learn, let alone getting the timing right.

[fatback]

I get close-ish on a passive yamaha BB fretless, if I pluck over the neck and use the side of my index finger rather than my usual rh technique.

The fact that my strings are eligible for a bus pass probably helps.

[Cat Burrito]

change your strings, don't buy a pedal. Try a set of black nylons like Rotosound Trubass and you'll get fairly close to that DB sound on a budget

[Bilbo]

Get rid of all the mids on your eq, pluck near the neck, turn volume up and pluck softly rather than 'dig in'.

Oh, and use a fretless......

[iamthewalrus]

Place your fleshy part of your plucking hand near the bridge & pluck downstrokes with your thumb. The old rock & roll double bass was probably more felt than heard.

Cheers,
iamthewalrus

[mrsteely]

Thanks for the great responses guys

Unfortunately in these hard times a fretless is out of the question (Unless I get ruthless with the sandpaper ), though it would be nice to have one.
Using my thumb has improved the sound no end, thanks iamthewalrus.
Bilbo , I was trying to pluck, almost like d bass technique but playing softer and turning up the volume has helped.

I'll try a set of nylon rotosounds to see how they stand up to the rest of the set. Although at the moment I've only got the 1 bass so I'm trying to get the best of both worlds, as I play the Sax and guitar too makes my musical wish list long and expensive!.

I have seen the ashbory basses, not a bad price but I've no idea what they're like and 300 quid is a little too much to experiment with.

Thanks again for the advice

Steely

[Doddy]

I'm going to be slightly controversial again,but as I've probably said before,an electric bass will never
sound like an upright.
You can do things like roll the tone off and palm mute,or stick a big lump of foam under the strings which will
change sound and the sustain,but it won't sound like an upright.

However,to get a 'thuddier' sound,I'd try palm muting. Lay the side of your hand over the strings,and then drop it
down so that you are plucking with your thumb. Also roll the tone knob right off.
It's an easier way than having to stick a wedge of foam under the strings,although that is also a cool sound.

[iamthewalrus]

[quote name='mrsteely' post='805255' date='Apr 13 2010, 07:42 PM']Using my thumb has improved the sound no end, thanks iamthewalrus.


Steely[/quote]

Glad to be of assistance Doddy has a pretty valid point - the upright is a totally (& tonally) different animal to the electric bass.

Cheers,
iamthewalrus

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='Doddy' post='805257' date='Apr 13 2010, 07:43 PM']I'm going to be slightly controversial again,but as I've probably said before,an electric bass will never
sound like an upright.
You can do things like roll the tone off and palm mute,or stick a big lump of foam under the strings which will
change sound and the sustain,but it won't sound like an upright.

However,to get a 'thuddier' sound,I'd try palm muting. Lay the side of your hand over the strings,and then drop it
down so that you are plucking with your thumb. Also roll the tone knob right off.
It's an easier way than having to stick a wedge of foam under the strings,although that is also a cool sound.[/quote]

He's right, you know.

[XB26354]

[quote name='Doddy' post='805257' date='Apr 13 2010, 07:43 PM']I'm going to be slightly controversial again,but as I've probably said before,an electric bass will never
sound like an upright.
You can do things like roll the tone off and palm mute,or stick a big lump of foam under the strings which will
change sound and the sustain,but it won't sound like an upright.

However,to get a 'thuddier' sound,I'd try palm muting. Lay the side of your hand over the strings,and then drop it
down so that you are plucking with your thumb. Also roll the tone knob right off.
It's an easier way than having to stick a wedge of foam under the strings,although that is also a cool sound.[/quote]

The OP wanted to replicate a double bass sound with an electric, not make it identical.
The palm mute was originally an Anthony Jackson invention (although "Fender" players had the knuckle rest to thumb along with too) as he wanted to imitate the Ampeg Baby Bass used a lot in Salsa without having to play one. I use it a lot, not to mimic the upright, but to provide a less obtrusive bass sound. Hard work, though.
If Dave Swift was able to fool Van Morrison into thinking he was playing an upright then it's worth a try!
Of course no electric stringed instrument will sound like its acoustic equivalent, but at least the case fits inside the average car

[Faithless]

I was after the same thing some time ago..

So, as others said, get a fretless, put nylon strings on, play with the EQ a bit - cut the mids off, and some highs.. and, some bass (at least, this worked for me, when I tried to make my EUB sound more-like-a double bass..)

AND - most important of all, listen to double bass players closely - you have to get that DB sound into your ears - it will help to reproduce it on electric bass massively..

For me, it's kinda hard to describe, what a pure DB sounds like - to me, it's sound is a bit 'soulless', 'empty', 'wolly', if you know, what I mean.. But that's what makes it sooo special

Try to describe yourself a DB sound - maybe it will help you to find it, what you're looking after


cheers
Faith

Edited April 14, 2010 by Faithless

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='mrsteely' post='805255' date='Apr 13 2010, 07:42 PM']... I'll try a set of nylon rotosounds ...[/quote]
I have a set for sale [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=84370"]here[/url] if aren't already sorted.

[Doddy]

[quote name='Faithless' date='Apr 14 2010, 08:56 AM' post='805711'

For me, it's kinda hard to describe, what a pure DB sounds like - to me, it's sound is a bit 'soulless', 'empty', 'wolly', if you know, what I mean.. But that's what makes it sooo special

[/quote]



That is the total opposite if how I'd describe a double bass to sound.

[valere24]

You could argue they are different types of double bass sounds as well - gut/high action is thuddy and with no sustain where as steel strings/low action/pick up can sound almost like a fretless with plenty of mwah (listen to Brian Bromberg for example).

For a traditional sound, things to try (in order of importance) would be:
- Think and play like a double bass player. If you walk use the kind of rythm variations an upright player would use (some good articles by John Goldby on this)
- Palm mute - the double bass has a stronger attack than electric bass, palm mute helps you to emphasise it.
- Flatwound strings - possibly with a mute alla Carol Kaye
- I would use the neck pickup / ideally a Precision type pickup rather than a jazz
- I would experiment with picking the note closer to the neck (the opposite of a Jaco type approach where you pick near the bridge)
- Roll off some highs on your bass with the tone knob
- EQ on amp - probably need to get rid of some highs
- Piezzo pickup to get some of the acoustic sound? - never tried it though
- Use a fretless

Please note I personally rank "fretless" as the least important factor - IMO

Edited April 16, 2010 by valere24

[wateroftyne]

What's been said already... playing right over the neck is vital, IMO.

Something to left-field for you all to chew on, though - the Bass Doc once told me one of the best ways to get an URBish tone is to solo the bridge pickup(!), crank the volume and play over the neck.

Of course, I assumed him to be mad.. until I heard him do it.

By jove, he was right.

[endorka]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='808192' date='Apr 16 2010, 11:11 AM']Something to left-field for you all to chew on, though - the Bass Doc once told me one of the best ways to get an URBish tone is to solo the bridge pickup(!), crank the volume and play over the neck.[/quote]

There may be some logic in this, at least with respect to an amplified double bass tone, as most double bass pickups, albeit piezo rather than magnetic, are located on or near the bridge of the instrument.

Jennifer

[The Bass Doc]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='808192' date='Apr 16 2010, 11:11 AM']What's been said already... playing right over the neck is vital, IMO.

Something to left-field for you all to chew on, though - the Bass Doc once told me one of the best ways to get an URBish tone is to solo the bridge pickup(!), crank the volume and play over the neck.

Of course, I assumed him to be mad.. until I heard him do it.

By jove, he was right.[/quote]

You omitted to mention rolling off of the tone on the bass whilst leaving the amp settings quite trebly.

As for my mental state, I should point out that I'm schizophrenic - and we're both mad.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='The Bass Doc' post='808230' date='Apr 16 2010, 10:39 AM']You omitted to mention rolling off of the tone on the bass whilst leaving the amp settings quite trebly.[/quote]
Ah - apologies to you both.

[JTUK]

no need to change anything... just thumb the string and mute with the palm or arm. You only need the thump mostly. The G string takes the most attention.

[mrsteely]

Awsome advice guys! thanks a million

[quote name='The Bass Doc' post='808230' date='Apr 16 2010, 11:39 AM']You omitted to mention rolling off of the tone on the bass whilst leaving the amp settings quite trebly.[/quote]
Thats is a great sound really hollow and woody, just what I'm after. I'm also using the bridge pickup (nice one wateroftyne) maybe the way of madness is also the way of great tone!
I'd be willing to swap a few marbles for tone that makes men cry and women lose thier knickers.

I haven't tried changing the strings yet as work is eating away my free time this week

Still I get to show off my new sound on sunday

When I get the chance I'm gonna try some nylons, just in case. The only thing that worries me about changing to nylons for the URB sound is that I'll lose some of the traditional tone for the other songs. Still you cant have it allways can ya!

[dub]

If use all the eq suggestions, boosting low, cutting mid and top, that's a good start.
If you want to go further try a little bit of really short (smallest room, short decay) reverb with the top rolled off.

Using a bass guitar with eq can be a very effective substitute for double bass.
I use a boss graphic pedal whch I can take in and out for a dubby/ double bass tone it's not the same as a double bass but it is really useful alternative tone.