The eternal stream of bands going nowhere...

[Aussiephoenix]

So... Ever felt like we are just moving from one doomed project (band) to another?
I'm feeling like that once again.

I've been playing in bands since I was 16, I'm now 29... Jeez, 13 years...

One of my mates is a very gifted bassplayer, and I didnt really understand him until now, cause he refuses to get into bands. he plays for himself... now I understand.

Every band that I've been in has had problems, this is normal. Ego, etc. but what I find really breaks them is the idea of a "group" of individuals, individually working together (or dragging ass) for individual pleasure as opposed to a group that will work together for a common goal/pleasure.

I've been trying to find the latter for a long time, but it seems unattainable.

So... what to do? I've invested in equipment over the years (maybe not to the extent of some of our BC'ers lol) to make sure that when the time came to break out of the studio/garage I'd have what I'd want to hear myself playing live.

Seems a stupid idea now. the Sadowsky was a good investment. thats totally personal. but here I have my Markbass head and ebs quadbox and even though I think its a great mix for my sound, and I'm totally happy with it, seems like its not being used to its potential.

I mean, I could keep the rig, but in the end, if things keep going the way they always have, then whats the use of having this kind of rig taking up space and tying up money? (Not to mention that I cant raise the vol past 2 at home or I'll get murdered by my neighbors.)

I've thought a few times about quitting on bands completely and just doing it for my own pleasure at home, but I always endup feeling the need of a good old jam with a few other meat-popsicles.

So, what to do... quit bands or not, trade off my rig for a nice, light, quality combo?


feel free to slap some sense into me. Edited November 14, 2007 by Aussiephoenix

[s_u_y_*]

I've felt that way before many-a-time. The things with bands, is they are very tempermental. I've noticed most bands on the London circuit don't get past the 1.5 year mark, simply because they can't get past their own egos.

That why in a weird way I like my current band arrangement. It's bandleader led so what he says, goes. He's allowed the rest of us some creative input, but he has firmly kepy our egos in check when needs be (because it's his ego which is on show, so to speak). As a result, I've become more humble and disciplined as a musician. I actually find it easier when there is that kind of leadership... they act almost like a chairperson in a meeting, making the creative process easier and have suggested it to a project which I've tagged along with, as they are having a crisis before it's even got off the ground!

That's just my experience of working with bands. I'd say it is easier to work in a band with a definite creative force embodied into a person, or a duo. It reduced the amount of egos clashing. Or as you put the "common goal" is to support the main creative force.

Just to re-iterate, I'm not advocating dictatorship but rather chairmanship. And in my experience it has worked everytime.

In terms of gear... get the light combo/half-stack. Every venue will have a PA, and you might as well save your back unlike you drummer hauling his 15 piece kit, or your guitarist's tri-amp system.

[theosd]

[quote name='s_u_y_*' post='87960' date='Nov 13 2007, 05:14 PM']In terms of gear... get the light combo/half-stack. Every venue will have a PA, and you might as well save your back unlike you drummer hauling his 15 piece kit, or your guitarist's tri-amp system. [/quote]

+1

Any of the markbass CMD range will be right up your street =]

[WalMan]

[quote name='theosd' post='87964' date='Nov 13 2007, 05:24 PM']+1

Any of the markbass CMD range will be right up your street =][/quote]
+ another 1.

I was feeling in a rut a few months back and a bit bored with pussy footing around other members of my band (probably pretty much all down to a mild relapse on the arthritis front) to the extent that for the first time in 30 years of gigging I honestly felt as if I had had enough and if it all caved in I wouldn't really care either way. Then the drugs started working again, I sold the Trace combo, bought a SUB 5 (which was [i]REALLY [/i]out of left field and not part of the plan at all), and got the Markbass CMD 121H and jumped right back in the saddle again.

The 121H is a cracking amp, weighs nothing but sounds great. Only problem for you would be keeping it quiet at home. We had a rehearsal last night and even with the master down around 9 o'clock it was a bit on the loud side

[DanOwens]

+1 on Frodo's advocation of a band leader.

I am either the visionary or the follower in my bands. I like directing musicians and I like being directed as a musician, and having a driving force creatively and professionally (until a decent manager turns up) is very important. I don't mind baying to someones ego, as long as they recognise it and the band do. On stage it might look like a equal partnership, but in practise a leader is incredibly important.

And i don't join a band that hasn't got:

1. Market potential
2. Decent tunes
3. Musicians who can play

That's my thinking anyway

Dan

[Aussiephoenix]

[quote name='TheBrokenDoor' post='88031' date='Nov 13 2007, 07:15 PM']And i don't join a band that hasn't got:

1. Market potential
2. Decent tunes
3. Musicians who can play

That's my thinking anyway

Dan[/quote]

Ah, but here's the thing... Portugal's music scene is pretty much unexistant except for pop music, so anything more alternative than that wont have a market.
So, its either:

Covers band

or

Originals for the fun of it.
Usually Im more into the originals thing, but its also frustrating cause we cant really play anywhere except 3 or 4 multi-band events a year.

thing is, even if we dont get to play anywhere interesting, and its just for fun, personally I feel like we still need to do our best to sound good. and its just not happening... the drums tempo oscilates, so it doesnt glue with the bass, unless I am constantly sizing up his tempo and doing my best to fit in (usually killing my groove), and if the rhythm section isnt there, then nothing else will sound good...

I think I may just need a timeout.

as for the combos... yep, its something like that that I've been looking for, but I've heard some bad things about MB speakers... I think that markbass head + ebs cab is the perfect compromise to my sound, where the MB sounds mellow, the EBS Brightens it up, but not as much as having the same cab with an EBS head. Any ideas about that kind of sound with a combo?

a mate has got a combo + extension cab from GK which sounds pretty nice too, but its nowhere close to 400w rms... I think with the extension its 150 rms.

Edited November 13, 2007 by Aussiephoenix

[Mobius]

I'm the same, been in 2 bands that could have actually done gigs and things but fizzled out due to personality clashes and lack of motivation from other members. In a third now but things are still going slowly. And the wasted gear - I bought a 300w stack and only got one gig out of it, now it sits at home because i don't have room for it at uni. And an acoustic bass for an acoustic gig that never happened. But hey, it's nice to have them

[Jase]

I think ego is good in a band, the more the better I reckon. We all have some sort of ego to get up there playing in front of people in the first place

[hogman]

Intresting one this....

When I threw the towel in with my first original band it was cos we did not gig enough 30 giggs in 6 years we did have an album out that did okay and were hailed quite highly by the press. The next band did at least 100 gigs a year with all that gigging I ended up getting loads of offers from other band deping and stuff. Next thing I am making a living out of playing bass.....

I have gone full circle now and am still giging but only about 80 a year. But I am teaching (Got some spaces by the way!!!) Now my gear rocks and I love the playing its the trwaling to and from the gig i am sick of.

I think we all get this fed upness. I just seem to be lucky emough to have been gigging all the time. However I had a real wake up call in 2002 I had a real serious accident anyway the surgeons both of them for an arm each both said forget about playing again..... masive wake up call.. I did however start palying again and quick too.

Just get on with it an see what comes along. As jaco said give me a gig.

Edited November 14, 2007 by hogman

[bassicinstinct]

I agree with everything that has been said above.

I have been gigging for 38 years, sometimes regularly and sometimes not. This is going to sound really trite [b]BUT[/b] I have eventually come to the conclusion that performing music live is all about a journey and not a destination. The trick is, I think, to enoy [b]tonight's[/b] gig regardless of whether the next one is in six days or six months.

It has, at the very least, enabled me to keep a grip on my musical sanity.

Leastways, I think it has.

[s_u_y_*]

[quote name='TheBrokenDoor' post='88031' date='Nov 13 2007, 07:15 PM']I am either the visionary or the follower in my bands. I like directing musicians and I like being directed as a musician, and having a driving force creatively and professionally (until a decent manager turns up) is very important. I don't mind baying to someones ego, as long as they recognise it and the band do. On stage it might look like a equal partnership, but in practise a leader is incredibly important.[/quote]

I think you summed it up better than I did!

[quote name='Aussiephoenix' post='88063' date='Nov 13 2007, 08:24 PM']thing is, even if we dont get to play anywhere interesting, and its just for fun, personally I feel like we still need to do our best to sound good. and its just not happening... the drums tempo oscilates, so it doesnt glue with the bass, unless I am constantly sizing up his tempo and doing my best to fit in (usually killing my groove), and if the rhythm section isnt there, then nothing else will sound good...[/quote]

If gigs are hard to come by, then perhaps studio work may be more fulfilling.

As for your drummer tempo problems, work using rhythm-only rehearsals, i.e. bass and drums. Working with a metronome playing through a PA works wonders at exposing a drummer's problem in time. It is a painful process for any musician, but the benefits are unstatable.

[urb]

My tupence worth on this is short and simple - don't play music that isn't 100% your thing. I did it for years and I kind of regret not just playing what I like best - i.e. jazzy funky stuff - not only has my playing improved immeasurably since I've played in bands that the music is totally my thing - I've enjoyed gigging and recording and I've also got paid more often than not.

As for band politics, honesty is the best policy - ego's are bull**** - one of my bands almost split up becuase the drummer had the most unbelievable row with the singer - but we patched it up and it's all the better for having cleared the air... seriously don't put up with pricks - they just ruin everybody's day - and the music suffers too.

M

[MB1]

MB1.

I just enjoy playing,...... nobodys ever told me or my band to go anywhere......as yet!

[Bilbo]

Every venue will have a PA? You clearly move in different circles to me. I NEVER see a PA provided!!

I am an 80 gigs a year man. The answer is several bands and a bag of freelance work! Learn to read so you get those gigs. Do every gig you can in every genre. Be professional (turn up on time, sober, dressed as per instruction, ready to play) and NAIL that groove!

You'll gig forever!

[OldGit]

[quote name='Aussiephoenix' post='88063' date='Nov 13 2007, 08:24 PM']Ah, but here's the thing... Portugal's music scene is pretty much unexistant except for pop music, so anything more alternative than that wont have a market.
So, its either:
Covers band
or
Originals for the fun of it.[/quote]

Well to various degrees that's pretty much the same the world over.

One idea may be to hire a place and put your own gigs on.
Maybe you are surrounded by other orginals bands eager to play, and eager to bring their mates ...
So how about organising a regular "First friday of the month" gig that you headline sometimes but also have aother like minded bands.
If it's done in a well managed and entertaining way, and well publicised etc, you should draw a crowd .....

[Weird War]

[quote name='OldGit' post='88514' date='Nov 14 2007, 05:00 PM']Well to various degrees that's pretty much the same the world over.

One idea may be to hire a place and put your own gigs on.
Maybe you are surrounded by other orginals bands eager to play, and eager to bring their mates ...
So how about organising a regular "First friday of the month" gig that you headline sometimes but also have aother like minded bands.
If it's done in a well managed and entertaining way, and well publicised etc, you should draw a crowd .....[/quote]

+1 for the above. I did this with my last band: we hired an upstairs theatre over a pub and gigged every 4/6 weeks, billing it as a kind of club night. After a few gigs, we started building a following to the night, people brought their friends etc. Still didn't make any money, of course, but it was usually more enjoyable than being 3rd support act on the toilet circuit. This approach may not suit every band though, as you need to have a clearly defined brand/image for the night.

Sad conclusion to the tale, though: the keys man and I walked after the band leader walked out of a meeting, only to send a 13-paragraph email two days later saying why he was right about EVERYTHING...

Off to audition with a new band tonight...

[MB1]

[quote name='Weird War' post='88544' date='Nov 14 2007, 05:31 PM']+1 for the above. I did this with my last band: we hired an upstairs theatre over a pub and gigged every 4/6 weeks, billing it as a kind of club night. After a few gigs, we started building a following to the night, people brought their friends etc. Still didn't make any money, of course, but it was usually more enjoyable than being 3rd support act on the toilet circuit. This approach may not suit every band though, as you need to have a clearly defined brand/image for the night.

Sad conclusion to the tale, though: the keys man and I walked after the band leader walked out of a meeting, only to send a 13-paragraph email two days later saying why he was right about EVERYTHING...

Off to audition with a new band tonight...[/quote]


MB1.
The vanity of frontmen eh!....Hope the audition goes well!

[theosd]

[quote name='OldGit' post='88514' date='Nov 14 2007, 05:00 PM']Well to various degrees that's pretty much the same the world over.

One idea may be to hire a place and put your own gigs on.
Maybe you are surrounded by other orginals bands eager to play, and eager to bring their mates ...
So how about organising a regular "First friday of the month" gig that you headline sometimes but also have aother like minded bands.
If it's done in a well managed and entertaining way, and well publicised etc, you should draw a crowd .....[/quote]

That's exactly what I'm doing with my band, except we don't have to hire the place and get to rehearse there for free. [url="http://www.myspace.com/flowpromotion"]Clicky.[/url]

I'm yet to update it with pics from the first two nights, but I haven't been given em yet! It's starting to gain momentum!

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='TheBrokenDoor' post='88031' date='Nov 13 2007, 07:15 PM']And i don't join a band that hasn't got:

1. Market potential
2. Decent tunes
3. Musicians who can play[/quote]

i was in a band that was fairly successfull on the local circuit. we had the press and ppl in big record companies listening in. The tunes were/are really good. and almost all the musicians are ace and good friends of mine.
in the end though they were about one 'thing' and the buzz of a band, and i wasn't interested in that. I read a book about Jaco and it was clear he just loved playing for the joy of playing and creating interesting things, now i'm no where near his skill but i get what he was saying. it's gotta be about the joy of doing what you do, of sums being bigger than individual parts. of not caring where it all ends up, of doing it if 50,000 people hear, or 5 million or just your flatmate who was only there to steal the beer off the rider.
its gotta be about the pain of hours of practice being worth the grin on your face when that note is perfect and fits into the groove perfectly. it's gotta be about creativity, doing something new, or the same old thing in a different way. maybe it will work, maybe not. About personal expression, and doing that as a group.


put your bass down, go do something else, learn to draw or mountain bike or something. Spend the time not in a band wisely. keep the stuff, forget it, then in 2 months, 2 weeks or 2 years you will dig it out again and have that love back