I'm confused by some transcripts.

[Marvin]

[attachment=47575:IMG.pdf]

Ignore what song it is, in the main these songs are learnt by ear probably.

My question/confusion is this. At the top of the page it tells the reader to de-tune 1/2 step. The very first note on the stave I read as an A. So I would naturally play an A. However, cross ref with the TAB it says play 12th fret on the third string. If you've de-tuned surely this would be an Ab. Hence I'm confused, what are you actually supposed to play?

I've seen this several times and am just questioning the instruction to de-tune, surely if the stave says play a certain note that is what you play, isn't it?

Please help.

The reason I'm asking is I'm taking tentative steps into learning to read the dots.

Edited April 17, 2010 by Marvin

[leftybassman392]

It's the tab that's the problem. The transcriber has given the instruction to detune, and then forgotten to tell the software to do the same. My guess would be that it's been written by somebody who doesn't really read music, and has just assumed you'll follow the tab. If you are really trying to follow the dots, these ones are no use to you. Bin it and look for a better transcription. It's not as if they're hard to find for this song.

[Doddy]

This is an area that seems to have a couple of conflicting opinions....so here's my take on it.

I really dislike any transcription that says you should detune and then proceeds to write the notes out
as if you were in standard tuning. Where they have written an A is indeed an Ab,so as far as I'm concerned
it's incorrect. Now I know some people will say that you should just detune and play what's written,but even then
it is still written wrongly.If you dropped the tuning a semitone,A is now on the 1st fret not an open string.
Basically,it has been written like this for a couple of reasons. Obviously,D major is easier to read than Db even though
the piece is actually in Db,but I think the main reason is because the vast majority of people who will buy that type of
book have no idea about reading and will just detune and play from the tab because it doesn't require any thinking
about-They aren't hearing the pitches,they are seeing fingerings.That's why this kind of instruction only appears in Rock
Tab books. You would never get this in a real world gigging situation.

[Marvin]

[quote name='leftybassman392' post='809421' date='Apr 17 2010, 01:59 PM']It's the tab that's the problem. The transcriber has given the instruction to detune, and then forgotten to tell the software to do the same. My guess would be that it's been written by somebody who doesn't really read music, and has just assumed you'll follow the tab. If you are really trying to follow the dots, these ones are no use to you. Bin it and look for a better transcription. It's not as if they're hard to find for this song.[/quote]

I thought this one would have been fairly reliable, considering it comes from 'Bass Tab White Pages'. I suppose the clue may be in the title in that it's primarily aimed at TAB. But one would have thought a publisher like Hal Leonard would ensure the TAB and Stave match.

I'm trying to avoid reading the TAB, but just noticed this anomaly.
The transcript of Dream On by Aerosmith was also in the wrong key. It all seems a little worrying. I'm thankful I didn't pay the £30 they charge for this book but got substantially cheaper.

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='Doddy' post='809430' date='Apr 17 2010, 02:11 PM']You would never get this in a real world gigging situation.[/quote]
Unless you played a transposing instrument, of course (Bb trumpet, Eb alto sax, G bass trombone...). Viewed from that perspective, it makes sense.

(I'm just playing devil's advocate, because I agree completely with Doddy. It's silly, on a usually non-transposing instrument, to suddenly write as if it [i]does[/i] transpose.)

EDIT: Actually, given ten seconds of further thought, and considering the context of transposing instruments, I think it's a [i]little bit[/i] sensible.

Edited April 17, 2010 by BottomEndian

[Marvin]

[quote name='Doddy' post='809430' date='Apr 17 2010, 02:11 PM']This is an area that seems to have a couple of conflicting opinions....so here's my take on it.

I really dislike any transcription that says you should detune and then proceeds to write the notes out
as if you were in standard tuning. Where they have written an A is indeed an Ab,so as far as I'm concerned
it's incorrect. Now I know some people will say that you should just detune and play what's written,but even then
it is still written wrongly.If you dropped the tuning a semitone,A is now on the 1st fret not an open string.
Basically,it has been written like this for a couple of reasons. Obviously,D major is easier to read than Db even though
the piece is actually in Db,but I think the main reason is because the vast majority of people who will buy that type of
book have no idea about reading and will just detune and play from the tab because it doesn't require any thinking
about-They aren't hearing the pitches,they are seeing fingerings.That's why this kind of instruction only appears in Rock
Tab books. You would never get this in a real world gigging situation.[/quote]

A lesson for me there then, don't bother buying these books again.

[Doddy]

I know what you mean about transposing instruments and it makes sense,but I think in this case
it's like telling a Tenor player to tune to B and play as if you are still in Bb. It doesn't happen.

Being pedantic about it-the Bass is actually a transposing instrument. It sounds an octave lower than written.


Hal Leonard know their target market for those books is non readers,so they can write as though it's in standard
tuning and tell the reader to detune,and they will because chances are they don't know where the correct notes are anyway
and will just play the numbers. They don't see a C,they see it as 3rd fret.
The stave and tab do match up with each other,they just don't match up to the actual recording in regards to pitch.

[velvetkevorkian]

FWIW double bass solos meant to be played in solo tuning (a full step up) are written as if it was in standard tuning, so there is precedent.

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='Doddy' post='809456' date='Apr 17 2010, 02:39 PM']
I know what you mean about transposing instruments and it makes sense,but I think in this case
it's like telling a Tenor player to tune to B and play as if you are still in Bb. It doesn't happen.

Being pedantic about it-the Bass is actually a transposing instrument. It sounds an octave lower than written. [/quote]
Touché! (...though for years I put an "8" under the clefs for both bass and guitar, purely on that pedantic point. I've given up now, but it feels all wrong. )

[Eight]

Ugh... this is another pet peeve of mine.

There's not really any need for it with standard notation (weirdly transposing instruments aside). Why can't they just write what the frickin' note is... Grrr..