Action issues.

[Spider-dan]

Hi,

I recently bought a second hand squier 'p' bass. The action is too high for my liking, I've adjusted the saddles but it's still on the high side.

Any ideas on how I can lower the action further?

Cheers,

D.

[derrenleepoole]

A truss rod adjustment is what you need in combination with saddle height adjustment. BUT, if you're unaware of such a simple procedure and need to ask about lowering action, I would strongly recommend that you get a guitar tech to do it, you could end up damaging your instrument permanently.

[neepheid]

Have you tried shimming the neck?

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=49897"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=49897[/url]

[Spider-dan]

I've thought about Shimming the neck - this seems the best possible answer as I'm not sure if I could adjust the truss rod to compensate that much.

Thanks for the awesome shimming guide!

[neepheid]

Don't use the truss rod to adjust your action, it's for adjusting the relief in the neck - not the same thing at all.

[xilddx]

[quote name='neepheid' post='812646' date='Apr 20 2010, 03:26 PM']Don't use the truss rod to adjust your action, it's for adjusting the relief in the neck - not the same thing at all.[/quote]
Sorry mate, but relief is [b]directly [/b]related to the action. Too much or too little relief will cause fret buzz in different places if you set the action too low.

To the OP. Fret (or capo) the E string at the 1st fret and with your your right hand fret the E string at the 12th. While you are doing this, look at the 7th / 8th frets and see how high the string is above the frets. In general terms there should be a very small gap, around half a mm. If it's much more than that there is too much relief (tighten the truss rod), if the strings touch the frets there is too little relief (loosen the truss rod). You should get the relief right before adjusting the saddles.

Get the correct tool to adjust the truss rod. With a little pressure the truss rod should turn. If it doesn't, do NOT force it, take it to your local techie. Do not do more than a quarter turn at a time, preferably only an eighth. Let it settle for a minute or two, do the 1st/12th fret thing and see if your E string has a tiny gap. Repeat if necessary. Then adjust the saddles until you get a lower action without too much rattle.

There is a great free guide here .. you have to sign up to the Jerzy Drozd newsletter but that's no sweat, the guide is superb.

Good luck, any questions, Basschat is here.

EDIT: Shims are a last resort after you've tried everything else.

Edited April 20, 2010 by silddx

[Paul_C]

[quote name='silddx' post='812777' date='Apr 20 2010, 05:02 PM']Sorry mate, but relief is [b]directly [/b]related to the action. Too much or too little relief will cause fret buzz in different places if you set the action too low.

To the OP. Fret (or capo) the E string at the 1st fret and with your your right hand fret the E string at the 12th. While you are doing this, look at the 7th / 8th frets and see how high the string is above the frets. In general terms there should be a very small gap, around half a mm. If it's much more than that there is too much relief (tighten the truss rod), if the strings touch the frets there is too little relief (loosen the truss rod). You should get the relief right before adjusting the saddles.

Get the correct tool to adjust the truss rod. With a little pressure the truss rod should turn. If it doesn't, do NOT force it, take it to your local techie. Do not do more than a quarter turn at a time, preferably only an eighth. Let it settle for a minute or two, do the 1st/12th fret thing and see if your E string has a tiny gap. Repeat if necessary. Then adjust the saddles until you get a lower action without too much rattle.

There is a great free guide here .. you have to sign up to the Jerzy Drozd newsletter but that's no sweat, the guide is superb.

Good luck, any questions, Basschat is here.

EDIT: Shims are a last resort after you've tried everything else.[/quote]

The point the previous poster was making is that if you want a lower action then you shouldn't just be looking to change the relief to do it, but you are correct in saying that you should have the relief set correctly before making other adjustments, then if the neck moves due to changes in humidity it's a simple job to then adjust the truss rod to keep the set up as you prefer it.
If the relief is correct and the saddles at the limit of their adjustment then a shim (assuming a bolt-on neck) will help - usually you don't need much to change it quite dramatically, and sometimes it might not be possible if shimming raises a part of the neck that then causes choking when playing the top frets.

[7string]

Yup, shimming is a last resort

As others have mentioned, you need to see how much relief (straightness if you like) the neck has. The capo at 1st is a good idea as it eliminates the nut as a factor which can just cause more confusion.

Have a look at [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2HGn7c9_uo&feature=related"]this YouTube video[/url] It shows Dan Erlewine explaining how to adjust a truss rod in a bass. If you have any worries about it, then add to this thread and we'll give you a hand. There's a lot of scare stories about truss rods, but as long as you understand what they do (counteract string tension to keep the neck straight) and how they adjust (tightening straightens the neck, loosening it allows the strings to pull it into more of a curve or more relief) then you're fine. As others have said, don't force anything, if you're doing it right you shouldn't have to.

I was working on a bass this afternoon which the owner had asked me to setup and fit a new nut. I used that Dan method to get the neck straight, in fact I've been using it for quite a while on virtually every setup I do.



By the way, how are you measuring the action in the first place?

Edited April 20, 2010 by 7string

[Al Heeley]

I have to agree with shimming as a last resort.
If you already have a well set-up instrument then truss rod tweaks are then best way of changing action. But it has to be good already and truss rod tweaks are so very tiny.
First you have to judge how much relief (bend) there is in the neck, then check saddle and nut height.
I see I'm just repeating advice already given so i'll stop now and let u get on with it

[neepheid]

Ah, forget it

Edited April 20, 2010 by neepheid

[Spider-dan]

[quote name='7string' post='813137' date='Apr 20 2010, 10:02 PM']By the way, how are you measuring the action in the first place?[/quote]


Just by eye and feel. In comparison to my other bass which I set up the action on this seems quite high and a bit of a nightmare, makes me not want to play it.

[7string]

Fender spec is string height of 4/64 of an inch (1.6mm) from the top of the 17th fret to the bottom of the string.

If you can get hold of a ruler graduated in 64's of an inch it'll always come in handy. This [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/6-INCH-150MM-STAINLESS-STEEL-RULER-METRIC-IMPERIAL_W0QQitemZ380212373495QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Measuring_Tools_Levels?hash=item58866c67f7#ht_500wt_956"]Ebay ruler[/url] should do the trick.

Edited April 21, 2010 by 7string

[xilddx]

[quote name='7string' post='813796' date='Apr 21 2010, 02:17 PM']Fender spec is string height of 4/64 of an inch (1.6mm) from the top of the 17th fret to the bottom of the string.[/quote]
And I bet that is possible on one in a thousand Fender basses. I would suggest double that is about the limit on most fender basses.

[Stylon Pilson]

[quote name='7string' post='813796' date='Apr 21 2010, 02:17 PM']If you can get hold of a ruler graduated in 64's of an inch it'll always come in handy. This [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/6-INCH-150MM-STAINLESS-STEEL-RULER-METRIC-IMPERIAL_W0QQitemZ380212373495QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Measuring_Tools_Levels?hash=item58866c67f7#ht_500wt_956"]Ebay ruler[/url] should do the trick.[/quote]

Or you could just print out a screenshot.

S.P.

[7string]

That would be handy!

[quote name='silddx' post='813894' date='Apr 21 2010, 04:09 PM']And I bet that is possible on one in a thousand Fender basses. I would suggest double that is about the limit on most fender basses.[/quote]

Fenders are OK. Sometimes the work takes longer than expected though!! You can come across all kinds of problems from the right allen key not fitting the truss rod nut properly to necks which don't want to do what you want them do on the first try. Patience wins the day everytime

Edited April 21, 2010 by 7string