Am I missing something?

[Faithless]

There's a short one..


To me, it's a bit strange - one day a guy is pushing music boundaries in Blue Note with some smokin' jazzers (Garrison with Horacio Hernandez and Scott Kinsey..), and the other day he's playing behind Whitney Houston..



Matt's on the screen about 1:44..



Same one with Janek Gwizdala - he plays with Mike Stern, who has big tours on Europe, Canada, Asia and so on, but then, he passes Stern's gig to other folks, cuz he's doing tv shows with VV Brown, working as an MD for her, as I suppose..





They're both smoking players, 'dedicated' for jazz (as they say..), but..
I don't get it - is it all just money thing, or there's something beyond it?

I believe, I wouldn't pass gigs with jazz giants just because I'd get a chance to do some tv show..


Just say a word, and I'll get my coat, eh..
Faith

[Sibob]

They have to pay rent like the rest of us, consider the Jazz gigs as 'originals shows' and the TV/R&B gigs as covers shows!

Quite normal I'd say, pop gigs are fun, its not all about playing 17 notes a second over tri-tonal substitutions

Si

[OutToPlayJazz]

Exactly - I do top pro shows, I'm on the BBC's Strictly tour at the moment, but I still do little function jobs & amateur shows, etc. Paid work is paid work, no matter how prestigious or otherwise.

[thisnameistaken]

Are you sure that's not Quentin Tarantino playing bass for VV Brown?

[Pete Academy]

Jazz gigs won't pay. These guys have to eat.

[Duarte]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='815116' date='Apr 22 2010, 04:05 PM']Exactly - I do top pro shows, I'm on the BBC's Strictly tour at the moment, but I still do little function jobs & amateur shows, etc. Paid work is paid work, no matter how prestigious or otherwise.[/quote]
That's a good gig. That Strictly band is INSANELY good!

[Doddy]

I have spoken to Janek about things like this,and believe it or not no matter how good the music is
with Mike Stern or with his own project,the money isn't superb. He's got rent to pay in both New York
and LA,and playing jazz clubs won't always cover it. When he tours with his own band,he has to shell
out thousands of dollars in flight's,accomadation and wages before he even does a gig-and sometimes
just breaks even or even makes a loss. When he is MD'ing a gig like VV Brown or JEM,it is a good paying gig
with no outlay,and will allow him to play smaller 'credible' gigs with his own band,without as many financial
worries. They are also very high profile.
I won't even tell you how much he lost when the last JEM tour got cancelled-but you would be asking questions
if you knew.

Let's be honest,I would love to play with Mike Stern-but I wouldn't think twice about taking a high visability,
great paying 'pop' gig.

[davidmpires]

Pino was seen doing wedding gigs. Jazz doesn't pay well so they have to search for other avenues to bring money in

[bassicinstinct]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='815129' date='Apr 22 2010, 04:12 PM']Jazz gigs won't pay. These guys have to eat.[/quote]

You got[i][b] that [/b][/i]right!!!

[daz]

[quote name='Duarte' post='815132' date='Apr 22 2010, 04:13 PM']That's a good gig. That Strictly band is INSANELY good![/quote]

Whats the [i]Strictly [/i]band ?

[OliverBlackman]

pop and rocks still fun, you dont have to just play jazz to enjoy bass ... Musics got many styles, if you just get locked into one, then IMO your not much of a musician ....... I met Janek and although he does say hes a "jazz player" he didnt play all that much jazz when doing a 2 hours masterclass. Ps. I quite like VV browns songs, they dont blow you away with spectacular solo's and chord changes but their refreshing and easy songs to listen to

[Bilbo]

I am a member of a closed jazz research forum that features many of the world's leading jazz journalists and they have been recently talking about the issue of how few jazz musicians are able to make a living from only playing jazz (i.e. thay have to teach etc). With very few exceptions (Keith Jarrett, Pat Metheny etc), most musicians limp from one festival season to the next taking any gig they can in order to pay the rent. Many of them have commercial outlets and some of them are consciously making money from a commercial gig in order to fund their jazz activities. Its real world stuff. We all like the concept of the uncompromising artist who suffers for their art but, in reality, why should the greatest players in the world live like tramps in order to produce an art product that is, at best, a minority interest. Its another romantic fantasy that doesn't hold up to close inspection. Early in his career, Joe Lovano earned less thna his wife, Judy Silvano. She was the hat check girl at the Village Vanguard.

One top saxophone player (top 5 in the jazz world) was once asked whether he thought it had been worth it. His response? 'No'. He went onto describe how he had had to watch his kids grow up without many of the benefits that come from a secure income: decent schools, health benefits etc. As they get older many of these guys (in the US) get ill and can't get the help they need because they have little or no medical cover and no chips to cash in (no house to sell, no insurance policies etc). A great and influential cd from 1994 is not going to get you a heart bypass.

These guys are just balancing the need to make a living with the need to make good music.

In truth, if you have played heavy jazz to small audiences for years, it can be a real buzz to pay dance music for a stadium full. Money aside, its good to see people get off on what you do.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='815146' date='Apr 22 2010, 04:22 PM']Money aside, its good to see people get off on what you do.[/quote]
Never a truer word spoken.

[Shockwave]

Well its similar to myself, I played in both a Death metal band and an indie rock band.

The indie rock band had more gigs and more money coming in. I liked both forms of music, so i didnt mind spending money to get the death metal equipment and tours sorted, that i had earned from the indie band.

[Faithless]

Wow, 12 responses in half an hour, that was catchy, wasn't it..


I know, what you're saying about money thing, anyway, it's somehow sad a bit, that such players have to take pop gig to pay their rent..

BTW, Doddy, what about that JEM tour?

[RhysP]

They don't HAVE to "take a pop gig" to pay the rent - they could go & get a sh*tty, soul destroying day job like most other people have to.

If they actively choose a career playing niche music that elevates them to "badass muso" status but nobody (apart from a small percentage of other musicians) actually wants to listen to then they can't really whine about it not paying very well.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Faithless' post='815176' date='Apr 22 2010, 04:48 PM']I know, what you're saying about money thing, anyway, it's somehow sad a bit, that such players have to take pop gig to pay their rent..[/quote]
Why is it?

Jazz doesn't pay, does it. It's as simple as that. If more people bought jazz music, it would pay. Just because someone is ace at something doesn't mean it pays well. People like stuff they can relate to, which in musical terms means simplicity and approachability, the more subtle music gets, the more the audience size declines.

It's the same with food. Most people seem to prefer eating crap with massive taste-bud melting flavours, and they don't mind eating out of a bucket to get it. Most Michelin-starred restaurants could halve their prices if there was a much bigger market, but as it is, they are small because so many people would rather go to Pizza Hut and eat crap. That's why some Michelin-starred chefs resort to TV to make enough money to expand, or they open brasseries, or even posh hamburger joints like Thomas Keller of the French Laundry did.

[Chris2112]

When you're as good as Matt Garrison, I'm sure we can forgive him for paying the rent!

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='815116' date='Apr 22 2010, 04:05 PM']Exactly - I do top pro shows, I'm on the BBC's Strictly tour at the moment, but I still do little function jobs & amateur shows, etc. Paid work is paid work, no matter how prestigious or otherwise.[/quote]

Nice gig, Rich.

[RhysP]

[quote name='silddx' post='815205' date='Apr 22 2010, 05:09 PM']Most Michelin-starred restaurants could halve their prices if there was a much bigger market, but as it is, they are small because so many people would rather go to Pizza Hut and eat crap.[/quote]
Hmm.I'm not sure about that. A lot of the reason those restaurants charge the prices they do is because they WANT to be exclusive.

[Doddy]

[quote name='Faithless' post='815176' date='Apr 22 2010, 04:48 PM']Wow, 12 responses in half an hour, that was catchy, wasn't it..


I know, what you're saying about money thing, anyway, it's somehow sad a bit, that such players have to take pop gig to pay their rent..

BTW, Doddy, what about that JEM tour?[/quote]

Janek had been the MD for a couple of tours doing all the TV promo and stuff,including opening up for Dave Matthews Band on a US
tour. Anyway,she recorded a new album and the band had blocked out a ton of dates ready for the promo tour. They rehearsed up to
speed,and then two weeks before the album launch,she fell out with the record company who then pulled the release of the album
and subsequently cancelled the tour.

I don't think it's sad that these players take pop gigs at all. You mentioned Mike Stern earlier-he toured with Blood,Sweat and Tears.
Dave Weckl played drums for Simon and Garfunkel. Marcus Miller played with Luther Vandross. By taking these kinds of gigs it allows
them the luxury of doing their own thing without financial worry-and it seriously raises their profile as musicians.
There is no shame in playing pop music to thousands of people every night.

[beardybass]

I'm gonna stick my neck out here and say, I'd take the VV Brown gig (or any of the ones in Silddx's sig for that matter) over the Mike Stern one any day of the week, sorry.

People need to get over this myth that jazz is the be-all and end-all of creativity in music, some of it is great, but that doesn't mean that other gigs are devoid of worth, or not fulfilling.

maybe, just maybe, they took the gigs because they wanted to, and they enjoy them.:ph34r:

[RhysP]

[quote name='Doddy' post='815228' date='Apr 22 2010, 05:23 PM']There is no shame in playing pop music to thousands of people every night.[/quote]
I'm sure that Janek, Matthew & all the other tremendously talented players out there have no problem at all taking this sort of gig. I'm sure they love the variety it gives them.

What always cracks me up is it's the chin stroking musical snobs who have a problem with them doing it, NOT the players themselves.

Edited April 22, 2010 by RhysP

[Pete Academy]

I'm sure players like Omar Hakim and Darryl Jones enjoy their nights off down at the Baked Potato.

[Mike]

Great conversation, everyone. Agree with it all. I'd go and work with a pop act in an instant. Love the jazz and all that but my function work pays triple/quadruple what I get for jazz.