Am I missing something?

[daz]

[quote name='daz' post='815141' date='Apr 22 2010, 04:20 PM']Whats the [i]Strictly [/i]band ?[/quote]


Still dunno what the [i]Strictly [/i]band or tour is ? Li'l help ?

Edited April 22, 2010 by daz

[lowdown]

[quote name='daz' post='815325' date='Apr 22 2010, 06:59 PM']Still dunno what the [i]Strictly [/i]band or tour is ? Li'l help ? [/quote]

Its a touring show version of the BBC TV Strictly Come Dancing.



Garry

[Faithless]

[quote name='RhysP' post='815240' date='Apr 22 2010, 07:33 PM']What always cracks me up is it's the chin stroking musical snobs who have a problem with them doing it, NOT the players themselves.[/quote]


So, I suppose, you're calling me a musical snob then?


Dude, just shut your mouth, sit back and relax - I don't have any problem with them, they do what they want, in the end, it's all discussion, and it all makes sense to me, I have nothing to argue with. Clear?


Musical snob, you see..

[xilddx]

[quote name='Faithless' post='815340' date='Apr 22 2010, 07:13 PM']So, I suppose, you're calling me a musical snob then?


Dude, just shut your mouth, sit back and relax - I don't have any problem with them, they do what they want, in the end, it's all discussion, and it all makes sense to me, I have nothing to argue with. Clear?


Musical snob, you see..[/quote]
You've come across as aggressive, and to deny your OP was anything other than snobbish is nonsense. Also, those of us who play "pop" music may be a mite naffed off at your insinuation that it is less worthy or skillful than jazz. An enormous amount of craft goes into most pop songs, on all instruments. And show me a jazz musician who can write credible lyrics. It's all about feel, interpretation and context. Family Man couldn't play bass like Alain Caron, but let's see if Alain Caron can make me dance? But you'll probably tell me dancing is vastly inferior to Chinese freestyle gymnastics now, won't you.

[Pete Academy]

Personally, I'm not a huge jazz fan, but add some funk to it and I love it.

[JTUK]

Two of the biggest UK gigs are likely to be..for example, Girls Aloud or Take That. You'll have the cream of UK players queueing up to add it to their CV and they'll love the money, IMO.

If you had gotten on the World tour of MJ or Pink Floyd, you'd probaby not have to work much again.

Simple economics

[RhysP]

[quote name='Faithless' post='815340' date='Apr 22 2010, 07:13 PM']So, I suppose, you're calling me a musical snob then?
Dude, just shut your mouth, sit back and relax - I don't have any problem with them, they do what they want, in the end, it's all discussion, and it all makes sense to me, I have nothing to argue with. Clear?


Musical snob, you see..[/quote]

My post wasn't aimed at anyone in particular, it's something I have observed many times.

And I'd thank you not to tell me to shut my mouth just because I have a different opinion to yours.

You hardly ever post on the forum, and when you do your posts are full of snobbery, elitism & condescension.

I suggest it's you who need to relax a little.

[Faithless]

[quote name='silddx' post='815364' date='Apr 22 2010, 09:35 PM']You've come across as aggressive, and to deny your OP was anything other than snobbish is nonsense. Also, those of us who play "pop" music may be a mite naffed off at your insinuation that it is less worthy or skillful than jazz. An enormous amount of craft goes into most pop songs, on all instruments. And show me a jazz musician who can write credible lyrics. It's all about feel, interpretation and context. Family Man couldn't play bass like Alain Caron, but let's see if Alain Caron can make me dance? But you'll probably tell me dancing is vastly inferior to Chinese freestyle gymnastics now, won't you.[/quote]

Did I say, that pop wass 'less worthy, skillful than jazz'? Show me that.
All I said, It was strange to me, that those two guys do pop gigs aside - but that's probably because I don't know industry that well.
As I've said, Doddy's and Bilbo comments on this made sense to me, and I'm cool with that.

I myself love lots of pop stuff, and love getting gigs to do it, so there's nothing against pop from me. Hope, it's clear?


[quote name='RhysP' post='815384' date='Apr 22 2010, 09:56 PM']My post wasn't aimed at anyone in particular, it's something I have observed many times.

And I'd thank you not to tell me to shut my mouth just because I have a different opinion to yours.

You hardly ever post on the forum, and when you do your posts are full of snobbery, elitism & condescension.[/quote]

Don't be zany, ok, mate..
Then again, if you have different opinion to mine, it's not necessary to call me a musical snob, is it?

And, thanks for observation about my posts, I didn't know that

Seems, I'm done with you.

[Chris2112]

[quote name='silddx' post='815364' date='Apr 22 2010, 07:35 PM']And show me a jazz musician who can write credible lyrics. It's all about feel, interpretation and context.[/quote]

Show me a pop musician who can!

[Marvin]

[quote name='Faithless' post='815107' date='Apr 22 2010, 03:56 PM']Just say a word, and I'll get my coat, eh..
Faith[/quote]

"a word". Have you got your coat yet? [size=2](just joking)[/size]

There are literally loads of talented musicians doing 'gigs' you simply wouldn't expect them to do. Danny Thompson famously played on Cliff Richard's Euro Song Contest entry. When ask why, he always answers he had a young family and had to put food on the table. Simple as that I suppose. As you will have noticed from Bilbo's and Doddy's posts. Actually Bilbo recently listed several really well known (well within Jazz) players that are only able to pursue their art basically part-time. I seem to remember him mentioning one DB player who didn't play for 30 years because his bass was broken and he couldn't afford a new one. It wasn't until someone lent him one he started playing again.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='815428' date='Apr 22 2010, 08:34 PM']Show me a pop musician who can! [/quote]
You're kidding me, right?

White Stripes, Florence & The Machine, Erykah Badu, Radiohead, Kate Bush, Jonatha Brooke, Prince, Jeff Buckley, B-52s, Pulp, Mary J Blige, Blur, David Bowie, Eminem ..

[Marvin]

[quote name='silddx' post='815518' date='Apr 22 2010, 09:57 PM']You're kidding me, right?

White Stripes, Florence & The Machine, Erykah Badu, Radiohead, Kate Bush, Jonatha Brooke, Prince, Jeff Buckley, B-52s, Pulp, Mary J Blige, Blur, David Bowie, Eminem ..[/quote]

You forgot Ellie

[JakeBrownBass]

[quote name='Faithless' post='815340' date='Apr 22 2010, 07:13 PM']So, I suppose, you're calling me a musical snob then?


Dude, just shut your mouth, sit back and relax - I don't have any problem with them, they do what they want, in the end, it's all discussion, and it all makes sense to me, I have nothing to argue with. Clear?


Musical snob, you see..[/quote]

Sorry Faithless but almost every post you make is you being a musical snob.

This of course is my opinion.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Marvin' post='815537' date='Apr 22 2010, 10:12 PM']You forgot Ellie [/quote]
Balls, I meant to aswell

Thanks mate!

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited February 15, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[JackLondon]

jazz shmazz, what about other genres of music? Did you know that Vader can't book a practice room in their home town? Did you know the Primus done most of the music for South Park?

It's always going to be a question of "living" abd so it comes that each of those people have to pay their bills, it's a different story when you live with your mum.

[Doddy]

[quote name='JackLondon' post='815639' date='Apr 23 2010, 12:02 AM']Did you know the Primus done most of the music for South Park?[/quote]

Well.... They did the theme tune anyway.Most of the stuff was written by Trey Parker and played by his and Matt Stone's band.

Also-Les Claypool used to play in his high school big band,so he's played some jazz.(That's also where he learned to read).You can
hear the influence in the clips of Primus' acoustic gigs under the name 'Bob Cock and the Yellow Sock'

[leftybassman392]

I've come to this discussion very late so don't feel qualified to criticise any of the previous posters, but here's my two penn'orth anyway. I do a lot of teaching for the local (Northants) music service. I avoid going to the local music centre these days because I got heartily sick of the patronising attitude I used to get from most of the 'serious' musicians who work there the second I mentioned my interest in 'modern' styles. I've got better things to do than defend myself against this kind of snobbery.

FWIW I play in a Jazz Fusion band that has several Mike Stern numbers in it's repertoire - it's challenging but great fun to do - but it's never gonna pay the bills. So I teach, and play, whatever the paying customer wants. Any professional muso with any sense would do exactly the same - to me that's one of the defining characteristics of a professional player. To do anything else begs the question 'What are you saving yourself for, that you don't want to play this music? Get over yourself FFS!'

To those people who won't demean themselves to play outside their chosen genre I say this - good luck earning a living.

Edited April 23, 2010 by leftybassman392

[Pete Academy]

Darryl Jones is a first-rate jazzer, but would you turn down Sting and The Rolling Stones, probably two of the best gigs in the world?

I think not.

[wateroftyne]

I'm late to this too, but IMO the OP is frighteningly snobby.

[Conan]

Garrison only got the WH gig because I told her I was too busy with my free-form Jazz Odyssey project....

Seriously though, who would turn down the chance to be Whitney's touring bassist?! FFS. Or is it better to play in no-longer-smoky jazz clubs to 50 cool cats who are too far up their own arses to even appreciate what you are doing? :wacko:

Hmmmm. Sorry. That turned into a bit of a rant didn't it? :blush:

[Bilbo]

Its all a lot more complicated than many of these posts imply.

Jazz is not as popular as pop music, end of. We all get that. However, the fact that pop music is more popular is generally because it is there, it has a presence all over the media. Whenever you do jazz gigs, people who ask for requests usually ask for one of the top 10: Moondance, Take 5, Fever, Girl From Ipanema, Music To Watch Girls By, Sway - the Rat Pack stuff - all of which were hit singles. Jazz has, at various points in its history, had a massive social presence but changes in the industry have changed the way people use music.

Early on in the history of popular music, the only music everyone heard was live. No recordings, no discos, no clubs, no radio. Every house had a piano and someone nearby who could play it; either that or they had a player piano. More interestingly, when radio started to become popular, the music heard was always played live. If you were listening to the radio in LA, some musicians in New York were playing it and earning money. More to the point, most of this live music was instrumental as vocalists could not compete with volume of most instruments. When recording became possible, it took a few more years before people would clock the fact that you could multi track things and mix a voice louder than the band. So the singer moved to the front of the band. The number of bands reduced dramatically as the recorded singers started to monpolise the airwaves and people started to play records at functions instead of use live bands.

Bring in the guitar/electric bass and we have a new threat/opportunity. It can be played by someone running around like a luntaic. Unlike a double bass, trombone, trumpet, vibraphone etc, it is easy to play a three chord guitar song whilst jumping around like a fool. Try playing Lush Life when the guitar is hung around your knees and on fire. Now throw in video - now people have to be abel to dance as well as play - tough call on a double bass player. Jazz is a lot less visual and lacks the element of spectacle that defines most of what we hear/see today. The problem is that music is absorbed by osmosis and we like what we are familiar with and, today, that means video as much as it does music. Noone hears jazz enough to learn to like it. One factor is that radio and tv can't cope with anything more than 3 and a half minutes long. Thats not even long enough to allow the introduction for Jaco' s Liberty City to build to a climax let alone for the main themes of the piece to develop. Songs nowadays are mostly created to sound familiar. Nothing 'new' is allowed to pollute the airways - that applies to most genres: jazz, classcial, folk, country - it all starts as avant garde, moves into the mainstream, fades into obscurity then enjoys a 'neo-classical' period before fading into a minority interest. It happens to every genre.

Every generation needs its rebels. The fact that the songs of rebellion are the same in almost everyway to those of the previous generation is irrelevant. The industry continually reinvents its anti-heroes: Jerry Lee Lewis, Jimi Hendrix, The Who, Iggy Pop, Johnny Rotten, NWA, Eminem, Marilyn Manson etc etc - all saying 'it sucks, we are the future'!! Its got nothing to do with the quality of the product or its objective merits but its all to do with the way in which the media, in the widest sense, uses its. Kids like to be angry and to find a voice for that anger but its not about aesthetic quality. Bill Frissel makes some of the most far out guitar music around (more radical than anything Joe Satriani ever did) but he is on dozens of movie soundtrakcs because it works in that setting. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people will have heard him and not known. Does he get his work played on mainstream radio or tv? No. Why? Because he is ugly. Does he get the next film gig. Yes. Jazz has a place and moves people even when they don't know it. Mike Stern writes beautiful ballads - gorgeous melodies. Same with Pat Metheny - totally accessible stuff. Biggest selling LP on ECM? - Keith Jarrett's 'Koln Concert' - solo piano - who'd have thought it? Dave Brubeck's biggest hit is in 5:4 FFS!!. I play a regular gig where the entire set is sung in Portuguese. Goes down a storm with English audiences - we even have them singing along in a foreign language! People can take it when they hear it - they just never hear it anymore. Unless they are the sort of person who goes looking under rocks to see what's there. But, fundamentally, what makes a great jazz tune is what makes a great pop tune. Does it move you? If it doesn't. ditch it. 'I Wanna Dance With Somebody' don't do it for me even if Matt Garrsison is on bass! To be fair, I don't really like Matt Garrrison's stuff either. Good rock, bad rock, good jazz, bad jazz. Its all subjective but nothing to d owit inate accessibilty and everything to do with conditioning.

Besides, jazz is better. It just is

[Faithless]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='815721' date='Apr 23 2010, 10:10 AM']I'm late to this too, but IMO the OP is frighteningly snobby.[/quote]

Anyone else want to add?

Guys, you're simply ridiculous..

[quote name='Conan' post='815745' date='Apr 23 2010, 10:36 AM']Seriously though, who would turn down the chance to be Whitney's touring bassist?! FFS. Or is it better to play in no-longer-smoky jazz clubs to 50 cool cats who are too far up their own arses to even appreciate what you are doing? :wacko:

Hmmmm. Sorry. That turned into a bit of a rant didn't it? :blush:[/quote]

True, indeed. People always find a chance to express their opinions towards something, even it is not asked/discussed in the main theme..


Anyway, it's a very interesting theme we touched, especially Bilbo's thoughts (for me, at least), nevermind those few punks, who just pop in here to tell me (or more like to tell [i]others[/i]?) how snobby I am..


Cheers
Faith

Edited April 23, 2010 by Faithless

[Pete Academy]

There was once a time when the likes of Weather Report and Return To Forever played arena-style gigs.

[Fat Rich]

Also, it about balance in your life.

Some pro musicians spend 3 months or more touring worldwide with an artist and come back feeling worn out from the almost inevitable poor diet, too much drink and drugs (not suggesting anyone discussed here does this!), sitting on a bus or plane all day and endlessly hanging around for soundchecks and gigs.

All they want is to spend some time at home catching up with their family and friends, and do a bit of TV work like Jools Holland or chat shows and maybe a few music videos to pay the bills.

Then it's back on the road again....

Edited April 23, 2010 by Fat Rich