What drivers do the best cabs use?

[Hazy Bass]

Like quite a few other people on the forum, I'm currently building my own lightweight bass cab. I picked up an Eminence Deltalite 12" driver off eBay, which seems to fit the bill & I'm playing around with cab designs - small, lightweight, powerful & suitable for BG & EUB are the criteria (no real challenge then)! Should have it completed over the next couple of weekends.

But it got me thinking about what drivers are used by some of the other manufacturers. My Schroeder Mini 12+ is fitted with a Fane Soveriegn 12-300 & sounds really sweet (the tweeter has been disconnected). And I'm thinking the Sovereign 12-500LF could be a good choice (if weight isn't an issue).

I believe that EA & Hartke use their own proprietary drivers, and Aguilar & Bergantino use Eminence (but are these the same drivers that are available to us regular punters)? But what do other speaker cabs use? G-K, Eden, Ashdown, Trace, Barefaced, Mark Bass etc?

In the end it comes down to personal preference, but I'd be interested in anyone else's thoughts/knowledge/experience.

Cheers!

Edited April 22, 2010 by makssbass

[LawrenceH]

Ashdown generally use Jensen/Sica. Markbass use B&C, which IMO are very nice indeed and are excellent performers in small boxes. Barefaced use Eminence.

Trace I believe used to use Celestion.

Really there are good offerings from all manufacturers if you're prepared to pay enough, although I'd say Eminence are not the best option if you want a very compact cabinet, unless you like a bit of a boomy sound. It is telling though that B&C are used in a lot of high-end PA systems, that's a market which is very discerning about loudspeaker quality.

[Mr. Foxen]

Lots of own brand speakers are Eminence, the specs can be modded slightly at request, but BFM suggested there is only about 10% adjustment. Eminence hint at what drivers are in some things with their 'recommended replacement for...'. The Aguilar GSx12 cabs use one of the Eminence Delta 12s for example (LFA I think).

Trace and early Ashdown used Celestion, as do Orange. Eminence are top dog, but probably because their range is so huge.

The early Ampeg SVT cabs are considered some of the best, but the drivers they used were rubbish most ways of looking at them, so that's something to consider.

[Phil Starr]

You've a lot of things to consider. Try reading this for a superficial skim of some of the technical issues. [url="http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/gear_maintenance/choosing_speakers_to_drive_your_cabs.html"]http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/gea..._your_cabs.html[/url]

There are a few main issues with speakers for bass:

Frequency Response: this divides into those speakers which are basically flat (some Eminence and Fane), which gives a DI into the PA type sound and those which have a midrange peak (like some Eminence and Celestion) which will give a more lively and punchy sound but more coloured and characterful. You will need to also consider the bass resonance which will define the bottom frequencies you can reach Celestions bass speakers for example go nowhere near bottom E and speakers that go really low are usually less efficient because of the heavier cones. at the top you need to go to at least 4000Hz unless you use a tweeter/horn and speakers that go to 10,000 Hz sound noticeably cleaner to my ears.

Magnet size: a big magnet allows you to do two things well. It improves the control of the speaker cone or damping and it lets you have a combination of more speaker excursion and/or efficiency. It also allows you to use as smaller cab. Look at the figure for Qts to judge this, a Qts of around 0.4 is a useful figure to aim for. Above this means a smaller magnet and usually a bigger cab, below this means a bigger magnet but below 0.3 you are getting to a very tight bass which is not to everyones taste.

Excursion: how far the cone will travel before the coil comes out of the magnet. Most speakers run out of puff at low frequencies and high power because the cone is asked to do too much and this varies from one speaker to the next. The critical figure is Xmax, the bigger the better. Beware, Eminence use a different way of measuring this from Fane and Celestion who are more conservative. Multiply their figures by 1.5 to roughly compare with Eminence.

I've recently used Fane 15's and 10's in my designs and they are the bargain of the moment. They are of very similar quality to Eminence and look like they could be made next to each other. Eminence are the market leaders and their range is second to none. Celestion's look a little odd to me; their bass speakers have very high resonance figures (well above bottom E for their 10's) and Xmax is poor even allowing for their conservative rating system but some people swear by them.

One speaker you might consider is the Beyma SM212. Their price has gone up in the UK because of the exchange rate (they are made in Spain) but I built two PA speakers using these and I use them for small gigs for bass. They are beautifully made, quite loud (98dB for 1W), quite light and sound gorgeous for bass. mine are in a 40l cab tuned to 40 hZ.

[Mr.T]

I have recently built a pair of 12" cabs using the Deltalites.
Very similar to the Aggie GS112's, but with much more in the mids and top end.... (without a tweeter).... and they weigh in at only 30lbs a cab!

Someone (not me) is selling a pair of new Genuine Aguilar (Emminence) 12" drivers in the 'For Sale' section.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Mr.T' post='815877' date='Apr 23 2010, 10:18 AM']I have recently built a pair of 12" cabs using the Deltalites.
Very similar to the Aggie GS112's, but with much more in the mids and top end.... (without a tweeter).... and they weigh in at only 30lbs a cab!

Someone (not me) is selling a pair of new Genuine Aguilar (Emminence) 12" drivers in the 'For Sale' section.[/quote]

How are you finding them..?





FWIW, I don't think GS12's are NEO's ..if that is the implication by a post

[hubrad]

A mate of mine who works at a PA company in Bradford reckons Precision Design are the speakers of the moment.

[url="http://www.precision-devices.com/"]http://www.precision-devices.com/[/url]

I don't know off hand what Alex uses in Barefaced, but from reading his blurb the cabinet itself will make a massive difference.

[Mr.T]

[quote name='JTUK' post='815888' date='Apr 23 2010, 10:26 AM']How are you finding them..?





FWIW, I don't think GS12's are NEO's ..if that is the implication by a post[/quote]

No, the GS112's are not neo's.... part of the reason I went for the Deltalites.
The Aggie drivers weigh 12lbs, the Deltalites 5lbs.

I have only had a chance to use them in a two piece line-up, as my band has had to take a break 'till next week
.....but they are sounding great so far!

[Hazy Bass]

Thanks Phil - great article - makes a few things clearer than they were before.

Interesting point about xmax measurements. I've always known different manufacturers have different approaches, but never worked out how to compare them. The Eminence specs frequently look better than Fane & Celestion - that's obviously one reason.

The Beymas sound interesting - I've looked at them before, but not found anyone who's actually used them.

My next project will be to replace my ageing Peavey PA cabs, so they may just fit the bill.

I also picked up a copy of the Eminence designer software from eBay - it seems a bit more comprehensive than WinISD, whcih I had been using. Do you have any experience with it?

cheers, Andy


[quote name='Phil Starr' post='815756' date='Apr 23 2010, 08:42 AM']You've a lot of things to consider. Try reading this for a superficial skim of some of the technical issues. [url="http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/gear_maintenance/choosing_speakers_to_drive_your_cabs.html"]http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/gea..._your_cabs.html[/url]

There are a few main issues with speakers for bass:

Frequency Response: this divides into those speakers which are basically flat (some Eminence and Fane), which gives a DI into the PA type sound and those which have a midrange peak (like some Eminence and Celestion) which will give a more lively and punchy sound but more coloured and characterful. You will need to also consider the bass resonance which will define the bottom frequencies you can reach Celestions bass speakers for example go nowhere near bottom E and speakers that go really low are usually less efficient because of the heavier cones. at the top you need to go to at least 4000Hz unless you use a tweeter/horn and speakers that go to 10,000 Hz sound noticeably cleaner to my ears.

Magnet size: a big magnet allows you to do two things well. It improves the control of the speaker cone or damping and it lets you have a combination of more speaker excursion and/or efficiency. It also allows you to use as smaller cab. Look at the figure for Qts to judge this, a Qts of around 0.4 is a useful figure to aim for. Above this means a smaller magnet and usually a bigger cab, below this means a bigger magnet but below 0.3 you are getting to a very tight bass which is not to everyones taste.

Excursion: how far the cone will travel before the coil comes out of the magnet. Most speakers run out of puff at low frequencies and high power because the cone is asked to do too much and this varies from one speaker to the next. The critical figure is Xmax, the bigger the better. Beware, Eminence use a different way of measuring this from Fane and Celestion who are more conservative. Multiply their figures by 1.5 to roughly compare with Eminence.

I've recently used Fane 15's and 10's in my designs and they are the bargain of the moment. They are of very similar quality to Eminence and look like they could be made next to each other. Eminence are the market leaders and their range is second to none. Celestion's look a little odd to me; their bass speakers have very high resonance figures (well above bottom E for their 10's) and Xmax is poor even allowing for their conservative rating system but some people swear by them.

One speaker you might consider is the Beyma SM212. Their price has gone up in the UK because of the exchange rate (they are made in Spain) but I built two PA speakers using these and I use them for small gigs for bass. They are beautifully made, quite loud (98dB for 1W), quite light and sound gorgeous for bass. mine are in a 40l cab tuned to 40 hZ.[/quote]

[Hazy Bass]

Cheers everyone. Plenty of food for thought there.

I've now got the timber cut to size & the holes cut for the driver & vent - just got to put it all together!