Master then Gain?

[Badass]

I have been looking at some of the new neo speaker cabs / combos on offer, and I came across this snippet from a GK manual...Preamp headroom maybe?

[quote]5. Level and Master Volume settings:
Set the master volume to 3 o'clock. (MB210,
MB115 and MB212 only) While playing, turn
the input gain up to the desired volume level.[/quote]

I have always, in 40 years of playing, set the gain then the master.

Anyone else do it the way described by GK?

[umph]

depends what your after soundwise if its clean - master on full then adjust volume with gain. If it's distortion gain to taste and master for volume

[Hot Tub]

I set it by playing normally, turn gain up until clip light just starts to flash, turn gain down slightly, turn master up to achieve desired volume/structural damage.

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='Badass' post='822775' date='Apr 29 2010, 10:17 AM']I have been looking at some of the new neo speaker cabs / combos on offer, and I came across this snippet from a GK manual...Preamp headroom maybe?



I have always, in 40 years of playing, set the gain then the master.

Anyone else do it the way described by GK?[/quote]

I just got a GK, and started doing it the way they say, and yeah, it seems to work. The clip light on my BL600 goes even when the gain is right down, same with the EQ, it just tells you your Bass is too damn loud before it hits anything. The boost does all the gainy overdrivey fun, and the levels and master, are more of a mix thing.
I like doing it this way, better than what I used to do with my ashdown..... (not be heard through the mud )

[essexbasscat]

The owners manual for the Peavey 400 series advises master, then gain, initially. Goes on to say later that adjusting the gain gives 'different sounds'. Got a feeling there may be some long explanations on this topic.

T

[51m0n]

Hmmmm.

If you have a clip light and you dont want to over drive the input stage (a lot of SS amps dont like or sound good with a clipped input stage) then the 'correct' way is to set the gain such that your hardest playing doesnt trigger the clip light.

Caveate: OK check your manual, as some manufacturers prefer a light that very briefly flashes with the highest peaks, it all depends on the level required to get that light on).

Then you raise your Master to the required volume.

That would be following standard gain stage setting procedure as used by sound engineers worth their salt the world over.

If your amp has a further gain/grit control then this procedure should still be followed. However it all gets muddier when you are talking about amps that are supposed to be driven at the input gain, but the input gain control to derive some grit. Clearly in this case the clip light is of little actual use, and you need to have some Master volume to hear the amount of gain you are getting.

In all things though your ears are (alledgedly) the best judge...

[chris_b]

The examples in the SVT3 user manual show the Master on 10 and the Gain set to "taste". In my experience, that gets the best sound of an SVT3 so I would believe the GK manual.

[Badass]

Hmmm....I am going to have to try this out on the main rig and the combos. Never had a master past 12 o'clock on any amp, and I have been in some loud bands in the last 40 years! Most gigs we do now the master is never more than about 8 or 9 o'clock. I understand the reasoning, it just seemed an alien way of setting the volume level to me.

[b]Dave Vader[/b] maybe you're right and the boost is the gain. I seem to remember the GK RB700 set up clipped night and day with any bass.

[b]chris_b[/b] Only ever got to use an SVT and 8x10 in anger once, but yeah a mighty sounding set up. If you have a roadie

[JackLondon]

I would also say follow what the manual says if you're getting desired results this way. IMO GK are very good at explaining and advising how to get the best out of their gear.

[chris_b]

[quote name='Badass' post='822998' date='Apr 29 2010, 01:32 PM']....I am going to have to try this out on the main rig and the combos. Never had a master past 12 o'clock on any amp, and I have been in some loud bands in the last 40 years! Most gigs we do now the master is never more than about 8 or 9 o'clock. I understand the reasoning, it just seemed an alien way of setting the volume level to me....[/quote]
You only have to do this once. The controls on my amp are fixed; I never change them. I make minor tone changes via the bass and use the volume on the bass to set the level for the gig.

The point of turning the Master up and balancing the overall volume on the Gain is that you should get a better tone with the power amp full up.

Edited April 29, 2010 by chris_b

[Mog]

I keep a notebook with the eq settings for each venue I've played in. Once its time to soundcheck I run through the following steps:
1: Set eq. 2: Switch on amp and set the input gain until it starts to clip. 3:Adjust the master volume. (tweak eq if needed)
I'd never run master at full volume. Probably to yellow!!

[Beedster]

I'm increasingly moving from hi gain/lo master to the opposite on both my heads. The sound isn't hugely different, I just prefer it for some reason. In the old days it was all gain and little master.

C

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Badass' post='822775' date='Apr 29 2010, 05:17 AM']Anyone else do it the way described by GK?[/quote]
Not me. I set my gain for the desired level of grit, then I set the master for the desired level. It tends to be the other way around with a PA console, where you want it as clean as possible.

[Willl]

Two different rigs, two different methods. Both have their own sounds.
Trace Elliot is all about setting the pre-amp, based on output from the bass with the help of three lights - More Gain / Thumbs Up / Less Gain, the Master stays low(ish)
And more recently for me - a GK RB1001, which is set up as discussed previously.

The disadvantage of the TE method, is that it's tough to crank the volume on the bass mid gig without upsetting the pre-amp loading. The GK appears to be less bothered by lower input levels, although in truth I've only played a Modulus and a Stingray through it neither of which are shy of output signal.

Will

Edited April 29, 2010 by Willl

[Beer of the Bass]

I find high master/low gain to sound good with my Clarus head when using double bass. I could be imagining this, but it seems a little more open sounding and less compressed than high gain/low master.

[umph]

[quote name='Beedster' post='823044' date='Apr 29 2010, 02:16 PM']I'm increasingly moving from hi gain/lo master to the opposite on both my heads. The sound isn't hugely different, I just prefer it for some reason. In the old days it was all gain and little master.

C[/quote]


less noise with the low gain high master approach aswell, it's definatly the way to go if you want clean.

[Linus27]

[quote name='Hot Tub' post='822785' date='Apr 29 2010, 10:25 AM']I set it by playing normally, turn gain up until clip light just starts to flash, turn gain down slightly, turn master up to achieve desired volume/structural damage.

[/quote]

Yep, same as me.

[MythSte]

SS amps, Gain to clip level, the volume with master,

With valve amps when i want a little grit, I crank the master right up then adjust volume/destruction with the gain.

[umph]

[quote name='MythSte' post='823592' date='Apr 30 2010, 12:13 AM']SS amps, Gain to clip level, the volume with master,

With valve amps when i want a little grit, I crank the master right up then adjust volume/destruction with the gain.[/quote]

thats the wrong way to go about getting grit unless your obviously playing the gain on near full aswell

[escholl]

Given that the power amp stage of a SS amp will likely have less effective power supply filtering and regulation applied to it, giving it a larger percentage of the total circuit gain seems like reverse logic if the output desired is the cleanest, lowest-noise signal possible. For bass and guitar I always set the preamp first, then the power amp (or, gain then master).

[Wil]

On my Tech 21 head I always set the drive first, normally 3/4 full for a warm driven sound, then master volume adjusted to suit. Sounds godly.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Hot Tub' post='822785' date='Apr 29 2010, 10:25 AM']I set it by playing normally, turn gain up until clip light just starts to flash, turn gain down slightly, turn master up to achieve desired volume/structural damage.

[/quote]
This - I have millions of different basses so I adjust the gain to suit the output of whichever bass I'm using. Master volume takes care of The Loud and if I want any overdrive I stomp on that thing with the flashing lights that's on the floor.

Jon.

[MythSte]

[quote name='umph' post='823965' date='Apr 30 2010, 12:48 PM']thats the wrong way to go about getting grit unless your obviously playing the gain on near full aswell[/quote]

Pretty much, its a low powered head I use and the power tubes break up much nicer than the pre's IMO