Listening To The Hi-hat

[essexbasscat]

I did ponder this topic during the quite points of a gig last night. My earliest musical influences were almost exclusively classical. Not a drum kit on the horizon, anywhere.

In every piece of music, there never seemed any doubt in my mind as to what the tempo was or where the beat (or perhaps, more appropriately, the emphasis) was. I later learned that Mars, bringer of war on Holst's Planets suite was in 5/8. Could tell you where the count was though years before I ever picked up an instrument or stopped wearing short trousers.

T

[peteb]

A bit surprised about people here preferring the high hat side of the kit as I always go stage right with a right sided drummer so that I can hear / feel the kick drum!

I know that Billy Sheehan always insists on being on the same side as the bass drum, as do most other guys of that kind (just look at any live shot of Van Halen, Ozzy's band, Whitesnake, etc)

I always play to the kick drum rather than the hi-hats – dunno, it might be a bit of a rock thing......

[ziggydolphinboy]

mmm bass drum
I had a terrible experience with my main band that actually alterd my mind about my drummer that then led me to think of it as another reason to leave the band.


we done a gig where the whole band was miked up and the bass drum was thuding all through my head all the way through the gig, the trouble was it highligted that when the drummer done a fill hes bass drum stopped !, he was out of time , and limited too (same bass beat) i looked at the walll all night and refused to play the venue again .
obviously when we played in pubs etc the bass drum was always lost.
after that i could never lock in with him again no matter how hard i tried to relax and get in with him i even reverted to stop playing runs when he did!!!

my limited experiencse is i play less notes when the drummer is good!!!! simply beacacuse he or she will clock the space and either use it or sync with you.
and if the feel is there its there!!
(im also contemplating having drum lesons!!)

I played with a drummer in a soul band who was so nervous about the tempo of the tunes it was a bit daunting but boy when he played it just was wicked, then ive played with a funk drummer who just does it and he listens to what youre doing wich is awesome when we get it right we both smile, id hope that a drummer is checking out what the bass is doing and alll the best drummers ive played with seem to listen, and i do love the hi hat especially when you clock it and the drummer knows youre listening, i had a drummer telll me that i was the first bass player to notice hes hi hat!!!(hope thats what he meant)!!

or maybe im a crap bass player talking gibblygooop!!!!!!!!!

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='ziggydolphinboy' post='825048' date='May 1 2010, 06:56 PM']mmm bass drum
I had a terrible experience with my main band that actually alterd my mind about my drummer that then led me to think of it as another reason to leave the band.


we done a gig where the whole band was miked up and the bass drum was thuding all through my head all the way through the gig, the trouble was it highligted that when the drummer done a fill hes bass drum stopped !, he was out of time , and limited too (same bass beat) i looked at the walll all night and refused to play the venue again .
obviously when we played in pubs etc the bass drum was always lost.
after that i could never lock in with him again no matter how hard i tried to relax and get in with him i even reverted to stop playing runs when he did!!!

my limited experiencse is i play less notes when the drummer is good!!!! simply beacacuse he or she will clock the space and either use it or sync with you.
and if the feel is there its there!!
(im also contemplating having drum lesons!!)

I played with a drummer in a soul band who was so nervous about the tempo of the tunes it was a bit daunting but boy when he played it just was wicked, then ive played with a funk drummer who just does it and he listens to what youre doing wich is awesome when we get it right we both smile, id hope that a drummer is checking out what the bass is doing and alll the best drummers ive played with seem to listen, and i do love the hi hat especially when you clock it and the drummer knows youre listening, i had a drummer telll me that i was the first bass player to notice hes hi hat!!!(hope thats what he meant)!!

or maybe im a crap bass player talking gibblygooop!!!!!!!!![/quote]

Great post.

[Pete Academy]

I can imagine the guys on Drumchat having a similar conversation to this.

[MythSte]

I ofetn use the hi-hat to determine when a note should end...? Especially for our slower numbers. I dont know if its a rule of thumb or just the way our band works out, but its often the case where the bass drum "opens" the note and hihat "closes" it.

[essexbasscat]

[quote name='ziggydolphinboy' post='825048' date='May 1 2010, 06:56 PM']mmm bass drum
I had a terrible experience with my main band that actually alterd my mind about my drummer that then led me to think of it as another reason to leave the band.


we done a gig where the whole band was miked up and the bass drum was thuding all through my head all the way through the gig, the trouble was it highligted that when the drummer done a fill hes bass drum stopped !, he was out of time , and limited too (same bass beat) i looked at the walll all night and refused to play the venue again .
obviously when we played in pubs etc the bass drum was always lost.
after that i could never lock in with him again no matter how hard i tried to relax and get in with him i even reverted to stop playing runs when he did!!!

my limited experiencse is i play less notes when the drummer is good!!!! simply beacacuse he or she will clock the space and either use it or sync with you.
and if the feel is there its there!!
(im also contemplating having drum lesons!!)

I played with a drummer in a soul band who was so nervous about the tempo of the tunes it was a bit daunting but boy when he played it just was wicked, then ive played with a funk drummer who just does it and he listens to what youre doing wich is awesome when we get it right we both smile, id hope that a drummer is checking out what the bass is doing and alll the best drummers ive played with seem to listen, and i do love the hi hat especially when you clock it and the drummer knows youre listening, i had a drummer telll me that i was the first bass player to notice hes hi hat!!!(hope thats what he meant)!!

or maybe im a crap bass player talking gibblygooop!!!!!!!!![/quote]


Yes, yes yes, when you find a drummer that can work with the bass in real time = the best of times

T

[JTUK]

What works best for me is if the drums have great time and feel which releases me from trying to make the bottom end make sense...
If the drum can carry the track on time and feel alone, I can concentrate on the notes that make the song move along... imho..rather than waste time trying to shore up a fundemental weaknes in the track.

If the drums can do this...I don't have to sync much at all...it is there. If the drums are weak...you waste too much energy righting that element. It can be a real struggle........

[gjones]

I always prefer to be on the hi-hat side of the drummer because usually thats the direction the drummer is facing most of the time and you can catch their eye easier for stops, starts, dynamics etc. Which means I mostly listen to the snare and hi-hat more than the bass drum. With most drummers I've noticed that they tend to sync their bass drum pattern to the bass line anyhow - except for the dodgy drummers I've played with over the years who tend to go off on their own tangent.

By the way, I was just reading some previous comments and my idea of hell is to play with a drummer like Keith Moon who just wants to solo his way through a song. I don't know how John Entwistle didn't end up just thumping him. When Kenney Jones joined he must have thought he'd died and gone to heaven (no offence intended to Mr Moon......but his drumming sometimes sounded like a drumkit being thrown down a flight of stairs).

Edited May 2, 2010 by gjones

[Pete Academy]

Many years ago we had a great drummer with a fantastic groove - a real joy to play with. However, when the D'Angelo album came out, he developed a bit of an obsession with the 'behind the beat' groove. Don't get me wrong, I love that album, but I don't always appreciate how far behind the bass plays. It's an acquired taste.

This drummer started to play 'Black Cow' more and more laid back, and kept insisting I play quite a bit behind the beat. I found this was unecessary for the song and annoying to play. In the end the rest of the band just couldn't cope with what felt like a decrease in tempo.

[JTUK]

Love the back beat but the same rules apply, IMV...you got to know where to use it.
I think it is healthy that all the band get a check about what they are doing stylistically, inc drummers.
We all need a hand in deciding what is right for the track from time to time and I have never minded being 'corrected'
if it works........................even more so by someone who is paying.

Leave the ego by the door, please....

You would think that people would realise, you are pulling them up for a reason and not for cheap points... that is always our goal altho I agree, it can get a little too close for comfort unless handled diplomatically