Help: modding a vintage bass

[Beedster]

Despite the risk, I'm determined that my '64 Precision will be my main gigging bass. To that end I ordered one of John East's P-Retros (well two to be honest). I've installed one in my 71 fretless (and it's sounding pretty sweet), but I want to install the other in my 64. Now here's the problem; the solder joints are original, and, much as I know it's stupid in the extreme, removing these solder joints to install the pre-amp will reduce the resale value of the bass. All I can think of doing is cutting about an inch up the cable to retain the original solder, and then, when I replace the original passive circuit (if I do), connecting the cables under the cloth so that the work is less obvious.

So, as this is clearly both devious and daft, has anyone got any better ideas?

Chris

[Beedster]

[quote name='Clarky' post='826081' date='May 3 2010, 12:12 AM']Yeah, don't do it Chris. Its like sticking a modern turbocharger in a vintage Aston DB5. Get another fretted P if you have to have more tonal vatiety and put the P-Retro in that. Your 64P is special because its a 64@. Don't do it mate[/quote]

LOL, thanks for the reply, but I disagree Clarky. It's a bass, and it's going to be played. If I had to, I'd rip it all apart to get the right tone, but it's great as is and I don't need to, I just need to have a little more control at the bass than I have at present. I'm not going to be precious about it, but neither am I going to be foolish, hence my question. I've no idea how a collector determines whether or not the solder is original, but apparently they can, so if I have to lose a few hundred quid in value to get the pre installed, so be it. But I'd rather not!

Cheers

Chris

[Beedster]

[quote name='Clarky' post='826089' date='May 3 2010, 12:22 AM']Fair enough Chris, its your bass to do with as you like. My final word (!) Is that you have occasionally been somewhat impulsive in your gear history (a kindred spirit!) And I can just envisage this being a case of regretting it later down the line. I'll shut up now![/quote]

Fair point mate, and I appreciate your input. The worst outcome of this process is that the solder joint on one pot will be non-original, so I'm not going to lose a lot of sleep over it. I have to balance being precious about the bass with being able to deliver what the songs and the band need live, and although I can perhaps do this with some boxes, I just prefer to keep things simple, a bass into amp type thing.

Has anyone else done this to a vintage instrument?

Cheers

Chris

[Raggy]

Just go for it Chris, as it is a 'birth bass' its more than likely you'll never sell it, its your main gigging bass and you have already mentioned you are not too bothered about loosing a couple of hundred quid over it.

It sounds like your happy with the pre in your fretless so adding it to the 64 will no doubt make this your perfect bass.

Well thats what i'd do anyway, but then my trouble is I cant/dont want to sell any bass I've got!!!!

[Sibob]

Did Clarky delete his posts?

Why don't you go with something outboard? I'm sure John could put you something together using a P-retro circuit

Si

[chris_b]

[quote name='Sibob' post='826318' date='May 3 2010, 11:35 AM']....Why don't you go with something outboard? I'm sure John could put you something together using a P-retro circuit....[/quote]
+10000

[Beedster]

Thanks guys. I want onboard hence my post. I was hoping someone would have some ideas/experience in that regard? I'm not overly sentimental about a lump of solder, and despite my often mentioned belief that there's no better bass than a Precision, I like to have more control at the instrument than is provided by the classic passive circuit, especially with mids. If it wasn't for the fact that, unlike my '71, the '64 has separate PUP and control cavities, I could simply have dropped out the entire PUP and harness without touching the solder, but as it is, I can't.

Chris

[Sibob]

But seemingly you are sentimental about the solder, otherwise you'd just do the mod and wouldn't have started a thread about it! lol

Si

[Beedster]

[quote name='Sibob' post='826353' date='May 3 2010, 12:15 PM']But seemingly you are sentimental about the solder, otherwise you'd just do the mod and wouldn't have started a thread about it! lol

Si[/quote]

I know you're tongue in cheek Si, but of course I'm not. What I would like to know is whether anyone has any ways of getting around this whilst retaining the joints, or at least, whilst appearing to? If not, no worries, I'll go ahead anyway, but if so, all the better.

Where's the Bass Doc when you need him eh!

Cheers

Chris

[Beedster]

[quote name='Sibob' post='826318' date='May 3 2010, 11:35 AM']Did Clarky delete his posts?[/quote]

In my 'opinion', Clarky was a little distracted last night

Could that be an anagram?

O, Pino in?

[Musky]

[quote name='Beedster' post='826366' date='May 3 2010, 12:31 PM']I know you're tongue in cheek Si, but of course I'm not. What I would like to know is whether anyone has any ways of getting around this whilst retaining the joints, or at least, whilst appearing to? If not, no worries, I'll go ahead anyway, but if so, all the better.

Where's the Bass Doc when you need him eh!

Cheers

Chris[/quote]

I believe you can age solder joints. Can't remember exactly how though - maybe using acid.

I'm not sure, it's just something I vaguely remember seeing in relation to instruments that have been faked to look completely original.

[4-string-thing]

could you not install a new pup, pre amp and pots onto a new scratchplate then fit the whole thing to the bass, thus leaving the original intact? To be refitted if you ever do sell the bass.

[steve-soar]

What he said.

[Beedster]

[quote name='4-string-thing' post='826576' date='May 3 2010, 04:14 PM']could you not install a new pup, pre amp and pots onto a new scratchplate then fit the whole thing to the bass, thus leaving the original intact? To be refitted if you ever do sell the bass.[/quote]


[quote name='steve-soar' post='826610' date='May 3 2010, 05:02 PM']What he said.[/quote]

See below

[quote name='Beedster' post='826331' date='May 3 2010, 11:51 AM']If it wasn't for the fact that, unlike my '71, the '64 has separate PUP and control cavities, I could simply have dropped out the entire PUP and harness without touching the solder, but as it is, I can't.

Chris[/quote]

[Toasted]

Don't do it. Just don't. That bass has been in that state for 46 years and will be for many more. Just don't do it. Go outboard! This is what amp EQ is for.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Toasted' post='826696' date='May 3 2010, 06:35 PM']Don't do it. Just don't. That bass has been in that state for 46 years and will be for many more. Just don't do it. Go outboard! This is what amp EQ is for.[/quote]
Right on.. I can see why the fretless would benefit, but a fretted P is the reference tone, innit. Just EQ at the amp!

Edited May 3, 2010 by wateroftyne

[Ou7shined]

Please don't take this the wrong way but unless you've had it from new then how do you personally know that the solder is original?

As long as you don't make a complete hash of it (solder peaks, scolds, flux bubbles everywhere etc.) then the solder will oxidise nicely in a few months and no one would know it's not new. You could use some non lead-free solder for that authentic touch if you really thought that prospective buyers would get all CSI on your solder. (I have some that I could send you if it's hard to come by these days)

And all this ignores the ludicrousness that surrounds the subject of original solder in the first place.

[Beedster]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='826709' date='May 3 2010, 06:44 PM']Right on.. I can see why the fretless would benefit, but a fretted P is the reference tone, innit. Just EQ at the amp![/quote]

Love to know what you said before the edit Michael? See your point, we agree on reference tone but disagree on where to modify it?


[quote name='Ou7shined' post='826742' date='May 3 2010, 07:08 PM']Please don't take this the wrong way but unless you've had it from new then how do you personally know that the solder is original?

As long as you don't make a complete hash of it (solder peaks, scolds, flux bubbles everywhere etc.) then the solder will oxidise nicely in a few months and no one would know it's not new. You could use some non lead-free solder for that authentic touch if you really thought that prospective buyers would get all CSI on your solder. (I have some that I could send you if it's hard to come by these days)

And all this ignores the ludicrousness that surrounds the subject of original solder in the first place. [/quote]

Thanks mate, interesting ideas. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to pull the wool over a potential buyer's eyes, I simply want to do this in the least painful way.

C

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Beedster' post='826814' date='May 3 2010, 08:30 PM']Love to know what you said before the edit Michael? See your point, we agree on reference tone but disagree on where to modify it?[/quote]
Relax, Mr. Mulder - I missed the word 'EQ' out by accident. S'all.

[Beedster]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='826830' date='May 3 2010, 08:50 PM']Relax, Mr. Mulder - I missed the word 'EQ' out by accident. S'all. [/quote]

LOL, fair enough mate, thanks.

I have to say that the most interesting responses to this thread have come by PM

C

[The Burpster]

Chris, my opine FWIW is that if the idea of splitting the wire or disturbing the solder is likely to bring you out in hive because you are devaluing it then dont do it.

If its not that, then de-solder it and get on with the job - as prospective owner buying a '64 of someone that claimed it was original I'd be well p!ssed off if I found out that you'd put a pre in it anyway (and it doesn't matter how good you are disguising, it would be pretty easy to see if most of the electrics have been disturbed).

So to me you have 2 options only i) get on with or ii) leave it well alone.

Deceiving a future purchaser (or even trying) further down the line isn't worth your reputation (or worse).

Bob.

[BB2000]

Personally I'd leave it alone. Given that these are collectible it could prove to be a costly mistake further down the line, if you keep it long enough. You've bought into the old Fender bullshit, so you must have (even if subconsciously) had the investment potential in mind. Think of the Beedsters to be, and their inheritance!

If you do go ahead, whatever you do, don't cut the wires.

[LawrenceH]

I can't see any way you can do this without breaking something. The solder joint seems the logical point of attack.

Probably some insane hi-fi freak would claim otherwise, but in the dimension I inhabit, solder doesn't contribute one iota to 'vintage tone', or to playability. You could always use a solder sucker and save the original solder in a little bag! The at least you could restore it to 'all original' components. I'm sure that would reduce collector's value, but what's the point in having the damn thing if it doesn't do exactly what you want? You could either treat it as an investment, put it in a glass case and hunt for yet another P that gives you the tone and feel you're after, or just take the plunge!

[velvetkevorkian]

[quote name='The Burpster' post='826842' date='May 3 2010, 09:14 PM']Chris, my opine FWIW is that if the idea of splitting the wire or disturbing the solder is likely to bring you out in hive because you are devaluing it then dont do it.

If its not that, then de-solder it and get on with the job - as prospective owner buying a '64 of someone that claimed it was original I'd be well p!ssed off if I found out that you'd put a pre in it anyway (and it doesn't matter how good you are disguising, it would be pretty easy to see if most of the electrics have been disturbed).

So to me you have 2 options only i) get on with or ii) leave it well alone.

Deceiving a future purchaser (or even trying) further down the line isn't worth your reputation (or worse).

Bob.[/quote]
My thoughts precisely.

[Beedster]

Folks
I really appreciate the advice, all I can say is please keep it coming, there's some really interesting and thought provoking perspectives above
Cheers
Chris