HELP: Stiff 'tuners, is there a cure?

[Grand Wazoo]

The tuners on my brand new Fender CIJ 51 Reissue bass are as stiff as a stiff thing, so much so that it bloody hurts to turn them, and a string change it is a very painful operation. These are the reverse tuners type for the record.

On Friday night I got fed up with them and took them apart, completely dismantled every one of them, cleaned them and lubricated the bushes with top grade Singer sewing machine oil (thanks to the missus) this gear is better than WD-40 and it's supposed to penetrate and coat moving parts better than any other oil. When I reassembled them, before fitting them to the bass they felt a lot smoother but sadly once back on the headstock and with the string in tension they become once again stiff and very hard to turn.

What can I do to make them better, short of junking them for a set of modern style smooth Fender or other brand? Any idea welcome

Thanks

[Musky]

Have you tried loosening the screw that holds the centre of the gear slightly?

[arsenic]

I wondered if the string post is being pulled hard against the headstock bushes when it string is under tension.

[Mr. Foxen]

Well, for a start WD40 isn't a lubricant, the WD stands for water displacement, its a for penetrating and driving water out, too thin to be a good lubricant. I'd guess the sewing machine oil is also very thin, for finely engineered gears, which Fender's definitely aren't. Take it apart, and re lube it all with vaseline or similar petroleum gel, that is more like grease, but clean for your fingers.

[richrips]

Most open gear tuners stiffness id dictated by a piece of bent metal which pushes against the screw thread. it is held under the 'cog'. if you disassemble the tuner you can remove this piece of metal and slightly reduce/increase the bend with pliers or in a clamp to reduce/increase stiffness.

Some tuners do not have this piece of metal and the only way to adjust them is via the screw as described above, although this may affect the overall stiffness of the tuner assembly and effect the tone.

Try both and compare,

Rich

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='arsenic' post='832441' date='May 9 2010, 06:54 PM']I wondered if the string post is being pulled hard against the headstock bushes when it string is under tension.[/quote]
Seeing as you have already stripped and lubricated the components to no avail, I'd say this is the most likely cause.
I've had this before. If it is the case then the best you can do is slacken off the tuner screws that actually hold them onto the headstock while under tension from the strings then tighten them back up again and hope that the fixings have aligned with the bushes. The alternative fix is pretty drastic and best left to someone that knows what they are doing. Of course over time if not rectified now the post will wear down at the point of contact and will eventually fix itself.

[Grand Wazoo]

[quote name='Musky' post='832434' date='May 9 2010, 06:47 PM']Have you tried loosening the screw that holds the centre of the gear slightly?[/quote]

No I haven't but I shall give it a try

[quote name='arsenic' post='832441' date='May 9 2010, 06:54 PM']I wondered if the string post is being pulled hard against the headstock bushes when it string is under tension.[/quote]

I've had exactly the same doubt but that was soon crashed when I temprarily swapped that tuner from another Fender bass in it and there were no issues with stiffness in the headstock bushes.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='832443' date='May 9 2010, 06:54 PM']Well, for a start WD40 isn't a lubricant, the WD stands for water displacement, its a for penetrating and driving water out, too thin to be a good lubricant. I'd guess the sewing machine oil is also very thin, for finely engineered gears, which Fender's definitely aren't. Take it apart, and re lube it all with vaseline or similar petroleum gel, that is more like grease, but clean for your fingers.[/quote]

I agree abot WD40, errr we've got no vaseline here is there anything else what works that is not vaseline?

[quote name='richrips' post='832451' date='May 9 2010, 06:59 PM']Most open gear tuners stiffness id dictated by a piece of bent metal which pushes against the screw thread. it is held under the 'cog'. if you disassemble the tuner you can remove this piece of metal and slightly reduce/increase the bend with pliers or in a clamp to reduce/increase stiffness.

Some tuners do not have this piece of metal and the only way to adjust them is via the screw as described above, although this may affect the overall stiffness of the tuner assembly and effect the tone.

Try both and compare,

Rich[/quote]

Yeah these tuners don't have the piece of bent metal just the open cog.

Cheers to all for the advice, I see how I get on with losening and lubing the gear with v#s#line

[matski]

I have the same issue with the same type of tuners.

One thing I have noticed is that when the tuners are screwed tight to the head of the bass, the actual middle section of the baseplate of the tuners tends to bow out slightly from the wood of the head.

I haven't investigated thoroughly (cos I'm lazy) but what I think may be happening on mine is that the threaded 'screw' of the tuner is in contact with the wood of the head, causing friction which makes it hard to turn the tuner peg itself.

If this is the case, then I guess some sort of spacer between the tuner and headstock is the solution. Alternatively, over time they will gouge themselves a channel out of the headstock...

Have a look at yours: are your tuners slightly bowing out from the head of your bass too or are they sitting flat?

[Grand Wazoo]

[quote name='matski' post='832955' date='May 10 2010, 12:11 PM']I have the same issue with the same type of tuners.

One thing I have noticed is that when the tuners are screwed tight to the head of the bass, the actual middle section of the baseplate of the tuners tends to bow out slightly from the wood of the head.

I haven't investigated thoroughly (cos I'm lazy) but what I think may be happening on mine is that the threaded 'screw' of the tuner is in contact with the wood of the head, causing friction which makes it hard to turn the tuner peg itself.

If this is the case, then I guess some sort of spacer between the tuner and headstock is the solution. Alternatively, over time they will gouge themselves a channel out of the headstock...

Have a look at yours: are your tuners slightly bowing out from the head of your bass too or are they sitting flat?[/quote]


Yeah, I've had a look, you are right! They are slightly bowed, however following a previous suggestion I've managed to make them a little bit less stiff by unscrewing the main large screw that holds the big string post, not a big deal but slightly better, so I take it is a matter of time, wear and tear and hopefully they should get less hard to turn with time (one hopes), I nearly snapped my plastic peg winder on them, f-f-sake!

Cheers though, very good advice.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Grand Wazoo