High end gear - are we kidding ourselves?

[niceguyhomer]

I have a nice rig - it's an Aguilar AG500 head (twin channel jobby), an Aguilar GS112 and a GS112NT. I also use an Aguilar Tone Hammer which also acts as a DI box. It's all connected with OBBM's cables and the whole lot sits on a Gramma Pad.

Last night I did a gig in a huge marquee, big stage, big PA, small audience (it was ferking freezing).

Because of the small numbers, I couldn't bring myself to be arsed to unload my rig so I used the house rig - a slightly battle scarred Hartke HA3500A head and an equally road worn Hartke VX 4x10 and I have to say it sounded absolutely bloody marvelous.

We've had debates about this before - I know but I was kinda flabbergasted and thought to myself...why spend loadsa money when this little rig is plenty good enough?

Thoughts please....

[geoffbyrne]

Well, if it's good enough for Jack Bruce....

G.

[Pete Academy]

It may be because you are so used to the smaller cabs and the 4 x 10" gave you a bigger sound?

[Ancient Mariner]

I'd guess that the Aguilar is smaller, lighter and easier to cart about? That's largely where the money went + nicer build quality.

Cheap kit has come a VERY long way, and can often be as good as much more expensive gear in some respects.

[velvetkevorkian]

Short answer? Yes.

[4-string-thing]

maybe you just hit that perfect combination?

My band usually rehearses in an expensive large complex in Leicester that has all sorts of expensive rigs (Ampeg and Markbass) Last week, we couldn't get in there so ended up using a little place in Coalville. The last time I went there they had a crappy Peavey combo that kept cutting out and I feared the worst, so took my "spare" rig (Ashdown) Anyway, we got in and they had replaced the Peavey with an Ashdown combo and 4x10 extension cab. What a brilliant sound, way better, in my view, than either the Ampeg or Markbass rigs I had used in the other place! Probably just the combination of bass, amp, cab, room etc.

I've not really had chance to use my own Ashdown yet, but at least I know it'll give me the sound I want, when I do.

[waynepunkdude]

I think there is a little bit of snobbery with it too, honestly I love the sound of my amp it's incredible but shamelessly I also love it because it has a shiney SVT badge on the front of it and I've always aspired to have one.

[Pkomor]

The hartke gear at that sort of level is fantastic too though, the money goes into making it smaller + alot lighter!

[Cat Burrito]

I agree with the general conscenious expressed so far. I've always said that it doesn't take a lot to get a good sound but it takes a lot to get a great sound. A £300 amp sounds maybe 7.5 out of 10 but you spend perhaps 4 times that to only go up a couple of marks at best. Ultimately it comes down to the buy off, is it really worth it? To a lot of us it is but then I think this is why we've had a lot of good players on here raving about the new Squiers lately.

[Pete Academy]

I was looking at the new TC rig the other day and thought, if you'd told someone ten years ago that this setup would rival much bigger rigs, they would laugh at you. My Markbass LMK and 2 x New Yorker 4 x 6" cabs sounds awesome.

Big sound, no backache...that's what you pay for.

[Mog]

for everyday use highend gear is pointless. in the studio its vital.

[JTUK]

you got lucky...but if that is what you want, buy it.

[Dood]

[quote name='Mog' post='833630' date='May 10 2010, 09:13 PM']for everyday use highend gear is pointless. in the studio its vital.[/quote]


Although, I have to counteract that by suggesting that some of the most unmistakeably great recorded bass tones from the past *have* come from some pretty shabby gear! JJ Burnell and his broken cones, Entwhistle's old cranked Hiwatts and the Ampeg B15 - brilliant for recording but far from hi end

Only joshing of course - at the end of the day, boring as it is - if it sounds great, it is great! -

Another example of great tone on a budget would be the Fender Showman / Alembic F1x / Trace V-type / BBE T-Max / Hartke LH preamps - dead simple, no flashy components - sounds absolutely magnificent!

[Dood]

[quote name='niceguyhomer' post='833463' date='May 10 2010, 07:04 PM']I have a nice rig - it's an Aguilar AG500 head (twin channel jobby), an Aguilar GS112 and a GS112NT. I also use an Aguilar Tone Hammer which also acts as a DI box. It's all connected with OBBM's cables and the whole lot sits on a Gramma Pad.

Last night I did a gig in a huge marquee, big stage, big PA, small audience (it was ferking freezing).

Because of the small numbers, I couldn't bring myself to be arsed to unload my rig so I used the house rig - a slightly battle scarred Hartke HA3500A head and an equally road worn Hartke VX 4x10 and I have to say it sounded absolutely bloody marvelous.

We've had debates about this before - I know but I was kinda flabbergasted and thought to myself...why spend loadsa money when this little rig is plenty good enough?

Thoughts please....[/quote]

I've spent a great deal of money looking for a amp tone that was under my nose all the time. I wish I knew then what I know now!! - Boy, have I enjoyed owning some sweet gear though!

[umph]

[quote name='dood' post='833689' date='May 10 2010, 09:54 PM']Although, I have to counteract that by suggesting that some of the most unmistakeably great recorded bass tones from the past *have* come from some pretty shabby gear! JJ Burnell and his broken cones, Entwhistle's old cranked Hiwatts and the Ampeg B15 - brilliant for recording but far from hi end

Only joshing of course - at the end of the day, boring as it is - if it sounds great, it is great! -

Another example of great tone on a budget would be the Fender Showman / Alembic F1x / Trace V-type / BBE T-Max / Hartke LH preamps - dead simple, no flashy components - sounds absolutely magnificent![/quote]


ampeg b15 and hiwatts are low end? There price doesn't seem to say so!

[Dood]

[quote name='umph' post='833719' date='May 10 2010, 10:26 PM']ampeg b15 and hiwatts are low end? There price doesn't seem to say so![/quote]


Probably not now - but back then, hence ' from the past'. Sure, they're not cheap now!

[BassBunny]

High end gear - are we kidding ourselves?

Alan, probably.
I rehearsed with a Jazz/Fusion band I've just joined in a real flea-pit of a room. Backline provided.......................
Turned out to be an old H&H PA head and a 2x10 Cab that was that battered you couldn't tell what make it was, (although I suspect Peavey)
Sounded absolutely bloody awesome and that was with the cheapest bass in my collection.
Even the other band members made comments.
I felt like trying to "borrow" the rig as there was so much stuff, they would never have noticed. (and then flog all the other basses I have )

[Musicman20]

I know exactly what you mean, but I think there is a point where high end blurs in on itself! It all sounds that good, you are paying the extra for a brand name or even just the hype (often seen on talkbass). I think once you are at the high levels of Aguilar and Bergantino, the differences arent really 'better' or 'worse', its what you like!

As I rehearse with a buch of really good musicians in a totally different area, I literally just take picks/straps/cables/sansamp. I use their cheap rig and their cheap bass. Why? Safety on the way home on the Metro, and the fact it can sometimes be raining and I dont want anything getting wet!

Gigs will be different though.

However, to counteract all of this, I took the TC RH450 test amp TC Elec have sent me tonight. I used the bands cheap bass, and the bands 1x12 PA cab. I used the DI on the amp....it sounded fantastic. It was mid-punch central. That cheap little 1x12 probably wasnt enjoying it, but it sounded pretty good and the DI quality was fantastic.

On Weds im getting a lift so ill take the RS210, the RH450 test amp, and use their bass again, just to see what difference a proper bass cabinet makes. I BET that 2x10 is easily loud enough, as every time we will play or rehearse we DI the bass.

I have used cheap combos in the past and had great fun, and great sound. Ive never used much Hartke gear but Id like to hear the high end kit.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Musicman20

[DirkThrust]

[quote name='niceguyhomer' post='833463' date='May 10 2010, 07:04 PM']HA3500A head and an equally road worn Hartke VX 4x10 and I have to say it sounded absolutely bloody marvelous.[/quote]

I played through something similar the other day. We were playing with another band in a biggish hall and the other band supplied the backline, which was a Transporter 4x10 and a 3500 head with the good old smiley face EQ that gets criticized so much, and that sounded fantastic too.

I was seriously thinking about getting a Hartke 4x10 (for about a minute) until I considered the practicalities of lugging about a 90lb 4x10. There are some great sounding rigs about for little money but they're big and heavy. I would love to still have my first proper rig which was a Peavey Tmax and BW115 and TX210 but it weighed a ton. As others have said, so much of the cost of high end gear goes into making it small and light.

[discreet]

[quote name='niceguyhomer' post='833463' date='May 10 2010, 07:04 PM']I couldn't bring myself to be arsed to unload my rig so I used the house rig - a slightly battle scarred Hartke HA3500A head and an equally road worn Hartke VX 4x10 and I have to say it sounded absolutely bloody marvelous.[/quote]

Maybe the novelty value of having a different sound had something to do with it?

[chris_b]

But what is the Hartke rig going to sound like on the rest of the gigs that you do? Your Aguilar rig probably sounds better at the back of the room.

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='geoffbyrne' post='833465' date='May 10 2010, 07:07 PM']Well, if it's good enough for Jack Bruce....

G.[/quote]


Exactly! It's not like you were using an underpowered 20 year old carlsbro combo with a flatulent speaker!


Those Hartke heads are great, i used Hartke stuff for ages and only really got rid because i wanted something smaller and lighter. Gigs and practice rooms with stairs are the deciding factor i'm afraid. The VX series offer serious bang for buck too, i had the 1508 and the 215 - both shifted a lot of bass and were dirt cheap. I stayed with the brand and bought a full stack and still own an A70 combo today

You know you've got it good when a decent half stack is budget gear!

[Johngh]

I've run Hartke gear for years, HA3500 head, 1x15XL and 2.5XL. Its never let me down or failed to deliver. I can't see the point of thinking about swapping it as it does all I ask of it. It's brilliant.

[umph]

[quote name='dood' post='833725' date='May 10 2010, 10:32 PM']Probably not now - but back then, hence ' from the past'. Sure, they're not cheap now![/quote]
hiwatts and ampegs were never cheap they were top bollock stuff back in the day to!

[Ian Savage]

As far as I'm concerned, if it's loud enough for me to hear what I'm doing, has enough flexibilty for the engineer to do his/her job (i.e. the DI's pre/post switchable) and there's enough control for me to do whatever my bass tone knob can't do (which usually isn't a lot) I'm happy.

When I was doing 'proper' gigging (meaning either using whatever gear was put in front of me, or using my own rig and also lending it to the rest of the bas players on the bill) the only ABSOLUTE constant was my Boss CS3 compressor, as I knew I'd get something usable out of it.

At the end of the day (sacrilage as it may be) we're the bass players, as long as we're in tune 90% of punters won't give a f*** about our sound. Which is why bass players' gear has become more like keyboard players' over the years (i.e. mainly more 'functional' looking) while guitarists' becomes tweed/backlit/gold 'n' black/chrome looking as fashions change.