High end gear - are we kidding ourselves?

[pete.young]

[quote name='ianrunci' post='836933' date='May 14 2010, 10:09 AM']Ok

I'll concede, you know what sound I like better than I do , your amp sounds better than mine at doing my sound, and your equipment is much more reliable.
And your gear makes you a much better player


I better start saving............... [/quote]

Look on the bright side - At least you didn't ask him which compressor pedal would improve the sound of your rig the most ;-)

[peted]

I've found with amp GAS that each equipment manufacturer sounds sufficiently different to make you want to switch your gear out constantly. One week I might really fancy a clean signal, the next a driven valve one, etc, etc. I think tone and therefore gear nirvana comes from accepting that you'll come across amps that sound brilliant in a different way to your own, but that doesn't mean that your existing amp sounds bad.

[51m0n]

[quote name='pete.young' post='837060' date='May 14 2010, 12:21 PM']Look on the bright side - At least you didn't ask him which compressor pedal would improve the sound of your rig the most ;-)[/quote]

DOH!



ROFLMAO!

[Conan]

[quote name='faceman' post='836998' date='May 14 2010, 11:13 AM']I played my Little Mark II and Ampeg B115E cabinet at my gig last Saturday...[/quote]

It's actually an SVT Seb, not a B series! Maybe you should have read your own signature! Pleased you're enjoying it - I'm also loving the Ashdown!

[cetera]

IMHO, it's like many things...... when you pay for an item you get what you pay for BUT only up to a reasonable amount.

e.g. Is any completely handmade bass over £2000 REALLY gonna sound/feel/look THAT much better than one that was CNC cut but hand assembled with quality components for £700? I think not...
With money/common sense an issue I would always purchase a Spector Euro over a US Spector as I don't believe the US ones to be worth £2k more (though they're gorgeous!). Same with Fenders - I would always go with MIJ/CIJ over USA for the same reason.

Same thing applies to amps. A well made amplifier by a top brand (Mesa, GenzBenz, EBS, GK, Trace, Peavey, etc) is going to fit the bill for reliability, value for money, resale value etc if it can satisfy your tonal requirements. Need a little more grind? Add a Sansamp or similar in front of it as you would a pedal for your tonal palette...

In all things I believe there to be a middle-band where quality/price/value-for-money all collide at the best point.

Edited May 14, 2010 by cetera

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='pete.young' post='837060' date='May 14 2010, 12:21 PM']Look on the bright side - At least you didn't ask him which compressor pedal would improve the sound of your rig the most ;-)[/quote]


Or if your amp will fit in a shallow rack!

[BTGAndy]

+1 for the HA3500, and 4x10, we have one of these at uni and it sounds awesome!

[JTUK]

hmmm.. if you put that £2000 plus into a maker who didn't have to sell at a retail outlet for a 30% cut or whatever it is..then it would be a pretty poor maker of a bass that couldn't make the difference there.

I own a few basses that would cost me that to commission and I can categorically say they are better basses ( way way better ) than anything you can buy for £700 in the high st. Chalk and cheese and everything on the side as well...

[cetera]

[quote name='JTUK' post='837322' date='May 14 2010, 03:57 PM']I own a few basses that would cost me that to commission and I can categorically say they are better basses ( way way better ) than anything you can buy for £700 in the high st.[/quote]

Better in what way though?!? Feel is a personal thing, build quality after a certain point is moot.... tone is a combination of the playing style and good quality equipment.

To use a couple of quick examples of very popular modern rock bass tones....
Duff McKagan (GnR/Velvert Revolver) - simple Jap Fender into GK
Billy Gould (Faith No More) - Aria into Peavey

Classic rock, soul & funk tones from the 70's were very often standard Fenders/Ricks into Ampegs etc

All the above are quality gear but none are 'boutique' or ridiculously expensive. After a certain point, great tone has been achieved (and usually just from the fingers/pick of the player!)....
There are very few boutique bass/amp makers that have made that sort of tonal impact.... except maybe Wal & a couple of others....

Honestly, when was the last time you saw a well known player (known for his amazing tone) playing something like a (e.g.) Ritter through a (e.g.) Glockenklang rig?!?

[JTUK]

[quote name='cetera' post='837386' date='May 14 2010, 04:52 PM']Better in what way though?!? Feel is a personal thing, build quality after a certain point is moot.... tone is a combination of the playing style and good quality equipment.

To use a couple of quick examples of very popular modern rock bass tones....
Duff McKagan (GnR/Velvert Revolver) - simple Jap Fender into GK
Billy Gould (Faith No More) - Aria into Peavey[/quote]

Those two aren't arbiters of tone, IMV anyway, but..

Better made, better finish, better parts, better put together, better end result. Sound is a lot more subjective but it will likely have quailty active pre anyway..
As it happens, I am more than happy with the passive sound on a couple of them anyway...so the core combinations of woods work..

If you spend your £700 in a shop, you'll be getting a bass that cost...what..? half that to make..and you'll skimp on a few components, maybe average tuners or pups..
A top paint job will cost the amount of that bass, pretty much....some laquers take a month to apply and re-apply
I am not saying that some people can't get a bass like that to work..and if you really luck out, it could sound great and play well but you'll
not find that the norm, IME, if you are looking for A sound.
Perfectly servicable, and a good set-up might be able to rescue quite a lot but if you can't see a huge difference in everything you have gone to the wrong luthier.

Some luthiers are better at these things than others...some have a real eye for detail and man the bench themselves.
I picked up one or two second hand, but you don't have to look or hear much to know they are real quality...IMO.

Edited May 14, 2010 by JTUK

[johnnylager]

[quote name='cetera' post='837386' date='May 14 2010, 04:52 PM']Better in what way though?!? Feel is a personal thing, build quality after a certain point is moot.... tone is a combination of the playing style and good quality equipment.

To use a couple of quick examples of very popular modern rock bass tones....
Duff McKagan (GnR/Velvert Revolver) - simple Jap Fender into GK
Billy Gould (Faith No More) - Aria into Peavey

Classic rock, soul & funk tones from the 70's were very often standard Fenders/Ricks into Ampegs etc

...[/quote]
Good call and raises some interesting questions - who has your favourite tone, do you strive to emulate it, what gear got it, and what do you use? There's a thread in there somewhere..

Edited May 14, 2010 by johnnylager

[51m0n]

[quote name='cetera' post='837386' date='May 14 2010, 04:52 PM']Honestly, when was the last time you saw a well known player (known for his amazing tone) playing something like a (e.g.) Ritter through a (e.g.) Glockenklang rig?!?[/quote]

Vic Wooten with the Flecktones at the Barbican, playing one of his many Foderas, he was going through a Hartke rig though, and where we were sitting it sound utterly rubbish (really). Massive let down. I dont blame the Hartke rig though, it should have sounded fine, certainly not that pants, I imagine it was a combination of where we sitting and possibly a PA guy who didnt know what to do with VW's bass sound, but I dont know. It was an undefined woolly mess though.

Stanley Clarke's db sounded amazing at the same gig.....

Saw Mama's Gun (they are pretty big in Japan, honest ) at The Latest Musicbar in Brighton, tiny venue, fantastic band live, bassist was a gent, played a Sadowsky Metro (could have been an NYC actually) Jazz through a Glockenklang (Soul I think) head into a Glock 1x15. Sounded fantastic. just huge (but we were less than 6ft from it so it bloody well should have!). Plux and my rigs sounded just as good there a couple of weeks later though (phew!).

I never rated Billy Gould's tone actually. Really brittle twangy harsh top end. Love FNM though, brilliant songs!
Duff's was OK, nothing to write home about, a good solid rock tone though. Of all the rock output of the 80's Appetite is still in the top three albums of the decade IMO. Again with the brilliant songs (and fantastic rhythm guitar too, Izzy was a genius).

Just IMO .

Edited May 14, 2010 by 51m0n

[51m0n]

[quote name='lemmywinks' post='837317' date='May 14 2010, 03:53 PM']Or if your amp will fit in a shallow rack! [/quote]

What can I say, read the sig

[mazdah]

Well, there is nothing wrong with cheaper gear! It took me few years to realise that
I often use GK Backline 112 as well as my SVT - 810 stack and I love them both.

The most important is to find your tone. The price of gear is not relevant.

[largo]

In my opinion, every amp gives a different tone. After finding the tone I like, the next important factor to me is the reliability. Being honest I've had some high end gear that's been just as unreliable as low end. I've found my middle ground, using a high end bass and a decent, reliable amp but I wouldn't call it boutique. If my Markbass amp fails I can, at very worst buy another and have it here next day. It's high quality, gives me a tone I like but best of all it's reliable. Now, watch it fail on the gig tonight !!!!

Edited May 15, 2010 by largo

[cetera]

[quote name='JTUK' post='837526' date='May 14 2010, 07:25 PM']Those two aren't arbiters of tone, IMV anyway, but..[/quote]

I didn't say they were.... I simply pointed out that the individual tone each of them is known for is generally very popular and often pursued.... they were simply 'examples'....re-read my post.

[quote name='JTUK' post='837526' date='May 14 2010, 07:25 PM']If you spend your £700 in a shop, you'll be getting a bass that cost...what..? half that to make..and you'll skimp on a few components, maybe average tuners or pups..[/quote]

There are plenty of basses in the £700-£1000 range that are SUPERBLY made with no skimping on comoponents, tuners, hardware, woods, build quality etc...

I'm not knocking boutique luthiers - simply pointing out that after a certain price point you aren't necessarily getting that much better an instrument, indeed you are often paying for the name/supposed associated prestige.....

[chris_b]

[quote]....High end gear - are we kidding ourselves?....[/quote]
This is Rock n Roll. Most people are kidding themselves one way or another!