How do i make my sound "bigger"?

[AttitudeCastle]

Hey guys,

Not sure where this would go so i plugged it there,

My sound is sized lets say, and i want it bigger, (ideally i'd cover every frequency in the human hearing spectrum haha)

My band has down sized, from 5 to 3, and in the studio things are better than ever sound wise, my lines sticking out, filling gaps etc a bit more as now they can!
But is it possible to enlarge your sound? I have a bright (and i'm looking for an even brighter) clean sound, and my "normal" distorted sound is alright, but the sound doesn't quite sound big enough,


I'm sticking this right here as several people have asked this so, I play a Yamaha Attitude!


The band is a guitarist who is a rhythm and lead in one but likes his dyads and single notes, and a loud hard hitting drummer, but he doesn't play as much as he could/should but it still works, So a smaller than usual sound from the drummer, and "messy" (all over the place but workin') guitar going on

I want my sound to be like the really fat guy taking up the whole lift haha, (an analogy i've used for a while after the experience) pushing against the drums and guitar but not over powering them, i've tried just turning up the volume and it didn't work as well as hoped but it has gotten me closer,

so erm yeah,

Ideas/tips on what to try?

Adam,

N:B
The idea for this came after listening to iron maiden, I want my bass sound to be like John Petrucci's guitar sound that big! (i know he double tracks, and live uses a modded delay pedal set to like 0.1 seconds or something crazy like that)

Also i realise sound clips would help you guys but i have no way of getting you any

Edited May 15, 2010 by AttitudeCastle

[RhysP]

Hamer 12 string bass.
That's all you need.

[AttitudeCastle]

[quote name='RhysP' post='837686' date='May 14 2010, 10:15 PM']Hamer 12 string bass.
That's all you need. [/quote]

I was thinking of using an octaver, i get a large (but i want monstrous!) sound using my attitude, and i love the tone but i think i will invest in a good octave up!

[Mr. Foxen]

Dual amped rig, one beefy and bassy, one toppy. Cut the bass from the toppy one to avoid the comb filtering.

[AttitudeCastle]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='837708' date='May 14 2010, 10:44 PM']Dual amped rig, one beefy and bassy, one toppy. Cut the bass from the toppy one to avoid the comb filtering.[/quote]

I have that set up with my Attitude, The woofer being the Bass, and the P-pickup being the bright top end,

and not to seem a fool but "comb filtering"?

Edit: Spelling

Edited May 14, 2010 by AttitudeCastle

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='AttitudeCastle' post='837714' date='May 14 2010, 10:50 PM']I have that set up with my Attitude, The woofer being the Bass, and the P-pickup being the bright top end,

and not to seem a fool but "comb filtering"?

Edit: Spelling[/quote]

[url="http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/in_search_of_the_power_alley/"]This[/url]

Should be so bad from the separate pickups, as the bridge one isn't making the real low end. I had a split signal going to a pair of 8x10s either side of the drummer and it was really noticeable.

[AttitudeCastle]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='837718' date='May 14 2010, 10:55 PM'][url="http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/in_search_of_the_power_alley/"]This[/url]

Should be so bad from the separate pickups, as the bridge one isn't making the real low end. I had a split signal going to a pair of 8x10s either side of the drummer and it was really noticeable.[/quote]


I'm not 100% sure i follow but i will re-read the page in depth tomorrow, thanks!

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

valve distortion

[Kiwi]

Boost around 25Hz, use a 2x15 or equivalent and a 4x10 or 2x10, ensure the pickups on the bass have a peak around 25-60Hz, use an Akai Unibass?

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='837728' date='May 14 2010, 11:09 PM']Boost around 25Hz, ensure the pickups on the bass have a peak around 25-60Hz, ?[/quote]

Not sure that is so useful for filling out for a missing guitarist, more for carving a space under an already dense mix. Plus 25hz is mostly speaker upset and not much sound.

Edit: Also, get your own diads in, play busier lines, and add extra notes to any note you play a bunch of times, there's usually an octave of 5th you can reach.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Mr. Foxen

[AttitudeCastle]

alot of this sounds expensive haha! I will certainly explore all these options when i have money but first i need all my pennies to buy a new Trombone (boo for money not going to bass stuff)

[Faithless]

Forget amps, effects, basses and all other stuff.


What will make you, and, more important, your band sound full and huge, is learning how to work with others.

It's not only you, that make you sound full and huge. It's also other members of the band.

Most important, the drummer. The [i]hugeness [/i]comes from [i]tightness[/i].
You wouldn't believe, how a good drummer enhances bassist. And vice versa.

once again, forget about gear, concentrate on process.

[AttitudeCastle]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='837731' date='May 14 2010, 11:13 PM']Not sure that is so useful for filling out for a missing guitarist, more for carving a space under an already dense mix. Plus 25hz is mostly speaker upset and not much sound.

Edit: Also, get your own diads in, play busier lines, and add extra notes to any note you play a bunch of times, there's usually an octave of 5th you can reach.[/quote]

Hmmmm good plan, i will report back after band practise tomorrow, a small issue is, i have always played Diads and odd chords here and there, and fairly busy lines, but that was before, with more space i'm sure i can modify and change! Thanks so much guys!

[AttitudeCastle]

[quote name='Faithless' post='837736' date='May 14 2010, 11:16 PM']Forget amps, effects, basses and all other stuff.


What will make you, and, more important, your band sound full and huge, is learning how to work with others.

It's not only you, that make you sound full and huge. It's also other members of the band.

Most important, the drummer. The [i]hugeness [/i]comes from [i]tightness[/i].
You wouldn't believe, how a good drummer enhances bassist. And vice versa.

once again, forget about gear, concentrate on process.[/quote]

yup absolutely, i think i will listen to bassists who specialise in such things, Sheehan, Myung, Harris, Squier

as i said i will report back tomorrow

[LukeFRC]

What kinda bass do you play?

I currently have two basses. The warwick streamer is amazing but I doubt it is ever going to nail a 'huge' sound, the notes have a lot of attack and the tone, while being amazing cuts through but doesn't fill the space.
My JV Pbass however does, it has the middy P bass thump, a load of low end, the brightness from the maple neck and most importantly a massive full tone (lots of harmonics) a bit like a really big piano. So find a really nice P bass.

[AttitudeCastle]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='837741' date='May 14 2010, 11:26 PM']What kinda bass do you play?

I currently have two basses. The warwick streamer is amazing but I doubt it is ever going to nail a 'huge' sound, the notes have a lot of attack and the tone, while being amazing cuts through but doesn't fill the space.
My JV Pbass however does, it has the middy P bass thump, a load of low end, the brightness from the maple neck and most importantly a massive full tone (lots of harmonics) a bit like a really big piano. So find a really nice P bass.[/quote]

I'm currently playing an Yamaha Attitude, which is like A P-bass after a work out!

and i get fat lows which i can change tone wise pretty radically with the neck pickup and the P-pickup gets nice punchy tone,

Billy Sheehan can get a Huge tone, live its practically punched me in he face!

I'm using a different set up, and i'm not trying to copy his tone, but i know it is do able,

Maybe it is to do with the tone i have? Which is based around being bright,

[endorka]

[quote name='Faithless' post='837736' date='May 14 2010, 11:16 PM']Forget amps, effects, basses and all other stuff.
What will make you, and, more important, your band sound full and huge, is learning how to work with others.
It's not only you, that make you sound full and huge. It's also other members of the band.

Most important, the drummer. The [i]hugeness [/i]comes from [i]tightness[/i].
You wouldn't believe, how a good drummer enhances bassist. And vice versa.

once again, forget about gear, concentrate on process.[/quote]

This is SO true.

Jennifer

[BigRedX]

I think part of the problem is the bright doesn't really equal big - especially on bass.

As others have said you need to be tight with the drummer and then tone wise tailor your sound to fill the frequencies that the other instruments don't.

Start by re-eq'ing to bring out the frequencies below the guitar and vocals, and then look at fattening up with valve compression/distortion - you'll need more in a band context then you think from playing on your own.

If you're serious about the bright then you'll need to seriously look at multi-course basses (8 or 12 string) and/or bi-amping.

[AttitudeCastle]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='837928' date='May 15 2010, 09:33 AM']I think part of the problem is the bright doesn't really equal big - especially on bass.

As others have said you need to be tight with the drummer and then tone wise tailor your sound to fill the frequencies that the other instruments don't.

Start by re-eq'ing to bring out the frequencies below the guitar and vocals, and then look at fattening up with valve compression/distortion - you'll need more in a band context then you think from playing on your own.

If you're serious about the bright then you'll need to seriously look at multi-course basses (8 or 12 string) and/or bi-amping.[/quote]

Thanks! I'm borrowing an octave up for practise to see how that works today

[Moos3h]

Sod the bass...big cabinets with 15" speakers (with bucket loads of Xmax) and big power to drive 'em.

I can bring down small towns with my two Fanes

[Faithless]

Of course, huge factor in your sounding, is how you play, how's your technique, etc..

But that's purely matter of individual and group practice.

Maybe, what would help for you, is to set your goals - how do you want to sound, and then work on it, day after day.

One of my main goals (and I have set them not for a week, or month, but for years) came from listening to saxophonists - I'm amazed how music can sound so fliud, so '[i]legato[/i]' through that instrument. And I think, with lots and lots of shed (thanks, J. Gwizdala ), it can be done on bass.

Think about what you want from it, then do it.

Edited May 15, 2010 by Faithless

[AttitudeCastle]

[quote name='Faithless' post='838005' date='May 15 2010, 11:12 AM']Of course, huge factor in your sounding, is how you play, how's your technique, etc..

But that's purely matter of individual and group practice.

Maybe, what would help for you, is to set your goals - how do you want to sound, and then work on it, day after day.

One of my main goals (and I have set them not for a week, or month, but for years) came from listening to saxophonists - I'm amazed how music can sound so fliud, so '[i]legato[/i]' through that instrument. And I think, with lots and lots of shed (thanks, J. Gwizdala ), it can be done on bass.

Think about what you want from it, then do it.[/quote]

ah yes, very very true and wise words! I thought similar to this after orchestra rehearsals today! I may take me a 10 years but i will get there! Thanks guys:)

[chris_b]

Effects can fool you into thinking you've got a big sound when really you just have an extra layer of noise.

If you're after "BIG" not loud, I think you need an amp with huge headroom, so that's a minimum 2000 watt power amp with a good pre. Then speakers that can handle a big sound without compressing, farting or generally sounding constricted. Maybe a couple of Barefaced Big Ones?

[LawrenceH]

Faithless is right of course, and I'd also agree that noisy FX in general aren't the answer...
BUT...
a sound engineering trick I found worked every time was the optical compression option on an Aphex aural exciter (the 'big bottom' function). This was excellent at squeezing maximum fatness out of a given system, either as an insert on bass or across the whole mix. Great for totally shoddy inadequate bass bins, but also good even on a decent rig for filling out the sound. A useful alternative to upgrading an entire amp/speaker system and potentially sacrificing portability.
I think they put it in a pedal for bassists, dunno if Behringer or someone does a cut-price knock-off version?

[51m0n]

Technique technique technique

Smooth out your sound, play softer but use more amp, you will get a phatter sound.

HUGE headroom and massive extension into the low end.

Try and have a go on a Barefaced BigOne (not the compact, thats not the same sort of thing) or an Epifani UL410 (series 1 preferrably).

Or if you have the cash a Bergantino IP112 and the extension cab or an IP310, with the right pre can sound HUGE.

It is nto a question of effects.

Another point, try to play less, and longer notes, allow the bass to sound big. Lots of staccato notes dont generally sound big, punchy yes, big no. So let those notes sing out more.

When you practice really concentrate hard on getting the biggest toneout of your bass, experiment with where you pick, how hard, note duration and really really concentrate. Record yourself often and play back the different experiments to really listen and concentrate on the results.