Trace Cab Generations

[Count Bassie]

Okay, one for the fanatics: Is there a difference in sound or quality in the 1048H speaker enclosures, depending on whether the covering is carpet or the old Tolex? Did the carpet come along as a "cheaping down" by Gibson? What else did they do to cheap it down- anything, or is it the same cab and drivers?

I must know... thanks.

[Merton]

Carpet came in end of the Kaman era, along with mdf construction, around 1995 iirc. Gibson took over in 2000 and led to poorer quality electrical components, black vinyl covering and a Trace-saturated market. I think

[Count Bassie]

[quote name='Merton' post='839459' date='May 17 2010, 02:32 AM']Carpet came in end of the Kaman era, along with mdf construction, around 1995 iirc. Gibson took over in 2000 and led to poorer quality electrical components, black vinyl covering and a Trace-saturated market. I think [/quote]

So before Kaman's carpet, boxes were plywood? The concept of MDF kind of annoys me for some reason. It's heavy, pulpy stuff, what we've sometimes used for interior trim in building construction (it gets painted). Doesn't seem like what I'd want a rugged gig-cab to be made out of. However I suppose it can take a bump and it won't splinter. But is it as rigid as plywood...

Anyway, I've been interested in being able to trace (pardon) the Trace Elliot line in a chronological way, like you can pretty easily do with Acoustic Control Corp. or Ampeg if you look on-line, etc. Is there an 'unofficial site' where this kind of thing can be found? For instance, I have an old AH250GP11 MK-IV head. If I wanted to put together a period-appropriate rig using it, I could go to that source and see what cabs were built the same year... I've seen the Wiki, and there's a thing from using Google about Mark Gooday, all interesting enough.

It's kind of an obsessive-type endeavor I guess ( ), but I only ask because I have had little luck in finding any of this info.

Thanks for the help Merton!

Edited May 17, 2010 by Count Bassie

[Bassman68]

MDF was used in construction of Trace cabinets before Kaman took over...I was building them back in '91! & breathing in that sh*t.
Pretty much all Trace cabs with the 'variable' tuned ports were constructed with this material (to my knowledge?).

The best cabs IMO were/are the earlier MK V's & before, that were made of ply-wood with proper internal bracing & porting, anyone that's picked up a MK V 1048 would know why they were so heavy! they were also filled with an accoustic foam/lagging type material that was visible through the narrow porting slots, i don't know how much help this had on the sound but, to me, always exuded an air of 'quality'....

From the series 6 onwards kevlar impregnated Celestion speakers were used on all the range, prioir to that, a mixture of Celestion & Fane speakers were used, Fane being used for the 15''s with the silver speaker surround & Celestions for the 10''s, with the occasional PD (Percussion Dynamic?) used for the 15''s (fantastic speakers similar to the also occasionally used E.V), If you can find a 1518 with one of these in you'd hear what i mean.

I think Trace went with the carpet covering as it come 'in vogue' with most speaker cabs in the mid-90's, a good tip if you have an earlier vinyl Trace cab is to clean it up with some black shoe polish to get rid of light scuffs, it's what they did at the factory before shipping!

Lastly if you want to match up 'period' cabs, earlier cabs like MK III,IV's had chrome corner protectors & MK V's had black ones, & i think i can recall from series 6 onwards they had screen printed logo's...

[Merton]

That's a proper run down, nice!

PD = Precision Devices I believe

[stevie]

[quote name='Merton' post='839969' date='May 17 2010, 05:57 PM']That's a proper run down, nice!

PD = Precision Devices I believe [/quote]
Specifically, the 153ER. They still make it.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='Merton' post='839459' date='May 17 2010, 07:32 AM']Carpet came in end of the Kaman era, along with mdf construction, around 1995 iirc. Gibson took over in 2000 and led to poorer quality electrical components, black vinyl covering and a Trace-saturated market. I think [/quote]

As I understand it from conversations I've had with Trace employees from back then, the quality issues actually hit a couple of years before the Gibson acquisition. The pre/post- Gibson thing is a bit of a red herring.

[Count Bassie]

That's great- thanks for the primer Bassman68! Some concise, linear info is what I was after. So I'll look for the chrome corners- not that it's actually an issue, but I have a picky aspect, being a carpenter of sorts.

Might also look into that Precision Devices driver... thanks everybody.

[Count Bassie]

[quote name='Bassman68' post='839942' date='May 17 2010, 12:25 PM']The best cabs IMO were/are the earlier MK V's & before, that were made of ply-wood with proper internal bracing & porting, anyone that's picked up a MK V 1048 would know why they were so heavy! they were also filled with an accoustic foam/lagging type material that was visible through the narrow porting slots, i don't know how much help this had on the sound but, to me, always exuded an air of 'quality'....[/quote]

Bassman, do you know around what year the MK III-V amps were built?

[dlloyd]

[quote name='Count Bassie' post='840441' date='May 18 2010, 02:06 AM']Bassman, do you know around what year the MK III-V amps were built?[/quote]

Series VI came out around 1990.



The timeline goes like this (there's some gaps to be filled, and probably some mistakes)...

Late 1970s First Trace Elliot amps produced for the Bass Centre in Essex, UK

1980s to 1992 Golden age of Trace Elliot (for want of a better term)

c 1990 Series VI amps introduced

1992 Takeover by Kaman

1997 Mark Gooday leaves and forms Ashdown Engineering. Their amps are designed by Clive Button who designed much of Trace Elliot's line.

Apr 1997 Kaman decides to stop manufacturing in the UK and puts Trace Elliot up for sale.

[quote]On Tuesday April 15, Kaman Corporation concluded that it is no longer in
the Corporation’s interest to continue the manufacturing operations of
Trace Elliot Amplifiers in the UK. It is expected that the phasedown of
that facility will occur over the next several months. In anticipation
of this move, adequate inventories of key products have been moved to
the U.S.A. to ensure a reasonably steady supply of product to our loyal
dealer base.

Kaman Music has been and continues to be in discussions with several
parties interested in acquiring the Trace Elliot assets and brand name.
While there are no pending offers at this time, we are all confident
that a new owner for Trace Elliot will emerge, who will carry this
world-renowned name in bass and acoustic amplifiers into the next
century.

We hope that you, as a supporter of Trace Elliot product, continue to
sell and promote the product during this transition period. Please
contact your Kaman Music District Sales Manager for details on product
availability and pricing.[/quote]

Mark Gooday:
[quote]It is quite complex. I sold Trace Elliot, with my partner Fred, to an American company. I had a five-year contract with them and that was coming to an end in `97. The Americans and I did not see eye to eye in the slightest on the direction of the company, we were at loggerheads as to what we were both doing. They were closing down a lot of their music sections and intending to sell Trace Elliot and I was in the midst of trying to buy it back. This didn't work out particularly well and it got a little bit politically difficult between us to the point where they thought it was better that I went and I thought it was better that I did.

Then I wasn't allowed to do anything in the music industry for six months, which gave me time to decide what I wanted to do. Trace made some fantastic achievements over the years, ones I'm very proud of and I miss the company today.

So towards the end of 1997 the first Ashdown products were shipped to the Japanese Trade Show and were reasonably successful straight away. Ashdown's first amp was the 500-watt Klystron Bass Magnifier, a curious name, I thought.

The reason it was called that was because of the Flash Gordon movie. There's a part in it where they say, "Turn up the Klystron Magnifier" and they're turning up this huge machine, which is exactly the image I wanted.[/quote]

Kaman is seeking to streamline its inventory, less than one fifth of which are music companies. Set to be dropped are Trace Elliot, which suffers in the US from the strength of the UK pound and Legend drums.

3rd Jun 1997 Trace Elliot UK refutes the news of its demise, stating they are in negotiations with Kaman to buy back company

[quote]Over the past couple of months there has been plenty of gossip on both
the net and the street regarding Trace Elliot and our current situation.

We would like to set the record straight as some of the gossip is not
only innacurate but also damaging to us and our loyal customers around
the world.

Trace Elliot is up for sale, the price most certainly is not $1 as per a
recent posting. Currently the three directors of Trace Elliot in the UK
are in negotiations to buy the company back from Kaman. We are hoping
that all will be resolved within the next 4 weeks or so.

Since Kaman Music Corp's purchase of Trace Elliot in 1992, we have
consistently increased our business every year. 1996 was a record year
and 1997 is also looking good. Obviously with the inevitable change
over of distributon that will occur in the USA, sales from TE to USA are
likely to down on last year. However, we are confident that this will
not be a problem when the company is sold and a new distributor has been
appointed in the USA.[/quote]

27th Jun 1997 Trace Elliot becomes a stand alone company when the directors of Trace Elliot UK finalise a deal to buy the company from Kaman. Trace Elliot continue to manufacture in the UK

Jan 1998 Introduction of 7-band SMC series and V-Type

Oct 1998 Takeover by Gibson

[quote]Gibson acquires Trace-Elliot, U.K.amplifier, bass, and string maker

Gibson Musical Instruments, under the direction of Chairman and CEO Henry Juszkiewicz, has added legendary amplifier company Trace Elliott to it's family of music instrument manufacturing companies.
The acquisition was completed on October 2nd. Gibson is now the sole-owner of the 100-employee U.K.-based company. Trace Elliott is known as a world leader in amplifier and electronics technology. Some of the top musicians in the world make Trace Elliot their amplifier of choice including Dave Matthews, John Entwistle, Tony Levin, and Don Henley.

"We're very excited about this acquisition because it's a natural compliment to our worldwide guitar operations, and Trace Elliot, being the leading name in bass and acoustic amps, provides an excellent platform for Gibson to move back into the amplifier business," says Henry Juszkiewicz.

The Trace Elliott acquisition, along with the recent purchase of Opcode Software, marks a series of recent moves by Gibson, including a company-strengthening reorganization of their Nashville-based operations, to insure that the 104-year-old legendary company will remain the industry leader well into the new millenium.[/quote]

Mar 1999 Introduction of 12-band series (GP12X preamp)

July 2000 General redesign of Trace amps: Introduction of new 7-band series (promising real world prices); Introduction of new 12-band series; Introduction of V8 Amp; redesign of the Commando combos

2000 to 2001 Manufacture of some amps moved to asia.

Dec 2001 Gibson stops production of Trace Elliot amps, rebadging some as Gibson amps

[Merton]

Nice history, though the original V-Type head, combo and preamp date back to 1995... I think the 1998 relaunch was the V6 and V300H/V600H, then the V8/V4 were the 2000 additions.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='Merton' post='840764' date='May 18 2010, 12:45 PM']Nice history, though the original V-Type head, combo and preamp date back to 1995... I think the 1998 relaunch was the V6 and V300H/V600H, then the V8/V4 were the 2000 additions.[/quote]

Yeah, it was something I put together based on newsgroup postings a few years ago. There's some really interesting and slightly controversial stuff out there. The Kaman takeover in 1992 seems to have been the turning point...

[quote name='Bill Kaman']We were their US distributor for four years, starting in 1988. Fred Friedlein, the owner, always wanted to run a nice little music company, and he had that, but then it got big and he wanted out. So we bought him out in 1992 and began to expand their product range to include acoustic amps, guitar amps, PA systems and the like.[/quote]

Apparently the expansion was too fast. They had a few issues with transformer reliability in some of the Series 6 mosfet amps, some of the valve guitar amps had a tendency to burst into flames, etc. The introduction of budget ranges didn't help the overall image of the company much either.

[Count Bassie]

Thanks for the run-down. Still interested in more detail about the 80's editions.

It seems to me that back in 1996 or so I was aware of the GP12 SMX. I had a 210 cab back then, and had been playing in a little post-psyechedelic band called Plan 9... I had the GP-7 preamp for a bit then, and had a brochure on the SM/SMX stuff.

[Mr Rabble]

The GP12SMX was introduced much earlier than 1999
I bought mine back in 1993

[Count Bassie]

[quote name='Mr Rabble' post='840888' date='May 18 2010, 09:24 AM']The GP12SMX was introduced much earlier than 1999
I bought mine back in 1993[/quote]

More like it. Now I think mine was more like '94, '95...

[Merton]

[quote name='Mr Rabble' post='840888' date='May 18 2010, 02:24 PM']The GP12SMX was introduced much earlier than 1999
I bought mine back in 1993[/quote]
No-one said it was introduced in 1999. The GP12X preamp and associated heads (the SMX replacement) came out in 1999.

The SMX, as far as I know, was introduced around 1992?

[Count Bassie]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='840492' date='May 18 2010, 03:16 AM']Mar 1999 Introduction of 12-band series (GP12X preamp)[/quote]

I mistook this as well. The SMX with 12-band was already out, so I didn't notice the X wasn't SMX. All these 12-band X-thingies...

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='840492' date='May 18 2010, 08:16 AM']Mar 1999 Introduction of 12-band series (GP12X preamp)[/quote]

And what a hell of a amp it is! My 1215 GP12X (1999) combo was found lost in the back room of a music store in 2007, costed 1400€, about £1200 ! Never been giged, just demoed a few times. It sounds gigantic, only shame is it's wieght...
My GP7-SM combo (2x10+H) is from 1996 (if not mistaken).
I've made a AB between my heads, connected to equal speakers, side by side: the GP7-SM has a nice bright sound but the GP12-X has more punch and low-end. The comparison was made with the amps set flat and with the shape turned off. Both are 300W@4ohm.

Great chronology, i've been curious for it for a long time but never found nothing on the web. Thanks dlloyd

Edited May 18, 2010 by Ghost_Bass

[Skezza]

I got into Trace kit 5 years ago (before that I used fender bass kit) a small valve 15 watt guitar amp a mate had bought I loved the style and build quality so looked at the old bass stuff

I now have :
AH 250 7 band vinyl covered
sm150 7 band carpet covered
sm150 1x 10 combo carpet covered
1 x 15 vinyl covered
2 x 10 vinyl covered
1x 15 carpet covered

I use this lot all the time from practises to quite big university gigs (put through PA)

I also have a vinyl coverd 4 x 10 with 11 band graphic that sounds monster but I leave it in outr rehersal room cus its so heavy I only gave £100 for this SO WHEN DID THE 11 BAND GRAPHIC enter the timeline?

I do not know which are the oldest which are the best although I may now start looking inside to see which are made of plywood.

Any help on this gratefully recieved.


skez

[Conan]

Great stuff! Very informative. Wishing I hadn't got rid of my 1986 AH250, 1048 and 1518 now! But then I think of the weight...

[Merton]

[quote name='Skezza' post='841760' date='May 19 2010, 09:57 AM']I also have a vinyl coverd 4 x 10 with 11 band graphic that sounds monster but I leave it in outr rehersal room cus its so heavy I only gave £100 for this SO WHEN DID THE 11 BAND GRAPHIC enter the timeline?[/quote]
The GP11 (er, 11 band graphic!) was the original Trace preamp, it was the basis for everything up to and including the MkV stuff

[Mr Rabble]

[quote name='Merton' post='841062' date='May 18 2010, 04:22 PM']No-one said it was introduced in 1999. The GP12X preamp and associated heads (the SMX replacement) came out in 1999.

The SMX, as far as I know, was introduced around 1992?[/quote]



You're probably right about this X series, which i didn't even hear about before

Anyway the original statement
"[i]Mar 1999 Introduction of 12-band series (GP12X preamp)[/i]"
is surely wrong, because the 12-band series was introduced in the very early nineties, with the SMX series

[Count Bassie]

[quote name='Mr Rabble' post='842074' date='May 19 2010, 09:07 AM']You're probably right about this X series, which i didn't even hear about before

Anyway the original statement
"[i]Mar 1999 Introduction of 12-band series (GP12X preamp)[/i]"
is surely wrong, because the 12-band series was introduced in the very early nineties, with the SMX series[/quote]

Well the SMX was all about the 12-band- among other features- right? So the 12-band existed before the "X" version...

Maybe the statement should more accurately read, (original quote edited here) "[i]Mar 1999 Introduction of [b]GP12X 12-band preamp[/b][/i]"

Might be beating this up a bit now...

[Merton]

[quote name='Mr Rabble' post='842074' date='May 19 2010, 02:07 PM']You're probably right about this X series, which i didn't even hear about before

Anyway the original statement
"[i]Mar 1999 Introduction of 12-band series (GP12X preamp)[/i]"
is surely wrong, because the 12-band series was introduced in the very early nineties, with the SMX series[/quote]
Bit confusing this, the GP12X preamp was also known as the 12-band series, hence the quote, strictly speaking, is correct

[Skezza]

[quote name='Merton' post='842463' date='May 19 2010, 08:03 PM']Bit confusing this, the GP12X preamp was also known as the 12-band series, hence the quote, strictly speaking, is correct [/quote]

If my gp7sm head puts 150 watts into a 4ohm load what is it putting out inot an 8ohm load