So how do you set up a fretless?

[Ou7shined]

I was in the spare room this afternoon and I noticed my old bass' flight case skulking between boxes of old clothes and the Mrs's mountain bike, so I hoiked it out, blew the dust off and had a look in at my old plank. It was in tune !!! and I hadn't touched it in about 3 years !!! Memories came flooding back of sweaty gigs, dropped D tuning and all those thumping tunes I used to write. But sadly this G-tar will never cut it again, not now I have a "real" guitar. It was a great sounding thing after I'd fitted it with a pair of Reflex Reds and my then trademark flatwounds but the neck was sh*te, the action was too high and if I put anything other than 55-110's on it you'd need a week of fiddling to get the intonation right again. But then it came to me. How about defretting it? After all it was really the poor fret job it received the day it left the AXL factory that sealed it's fate.

I've never done this before, [b]indeed I'd never even held or seen an actual fretless bass before[/b], but I figured I've got the skills. A quick flick over the inter-web to make sure it can be done (I was worried about the diff between a fretless fretboard and a standard one - apparently it can be done) and I was off. 15 mins later the frets were out. I've never liked the finish on the neck, a thick, glossy lacquer which sometimes you'd get stuck on half way through a run. My Ibanez has a silky, hardly noticeable finish on it which I like so I decided to sand of the AXL varnish too. It came off quite easily along with the embarrassing AXL logo (who?) too.

Next to fill in the grooves. I knew I had wood filler, I thought it was Antique Pine which would have blended in fine with the dark fretboard. But no! I have "natural" filler about as stark a contrast as you could get. I filled the grooves, let it set, rubbed it back then went to the filler with a point of a scalpel to find any weak bits. I howked out the offending areas then refilled it again, let it go off, then rubbed it back again. Now you can't even tell (by feel anyway) that there ever were frets there at all. My final paper was P240 but it was kinda clogged so it wasn't abrasive and has actually served to polish the wood - ie the fretboard now is actually reflective in certain lights.

Now the ex-clunker of a neck is as silky and fast as my Ibanez's.

I stripped every bit of hardware off and cleaned then polished (where applicable). I filled up all the screw holes (bar the 4 neck ones) with more filler as some had gotten a bit lose over the years. Then put it all back together. It was when I was putting the strings back on that I realised that I didn't really know how I was going to tune it up now it didn't have frets and I never played without 'em before. I couldn't be arsed to get my tuner (GT-6B ) so I took a reference ping of my 6 string acoustic and did 5th/7th fret harmonics. Panic over

I'd kept the bridge exactly where it was set up when it had frets but this was set for the high action forced by the kinky-neck-fret-buzz from it's previous incarnation. Not knowing exactly what to do with a fretless I hoiked the saddles down to their lowest seating then gave the grub screws a 1/4 turn just to nip them up and stop them falling out, screwed down the Reflex Reds to accommodate the new low strings and had a play about. It seemed fine. No more buzz and that magical "peeyow" of fretless came forth for the 1st time. I had a quick go at the intonation but it's better to do that with a tuner so I'll do it properly tomorrow.

I'm going to stain the fretboard dark, maybe lightly spray on some silky lacquer to the neck - I have thought about Tung oil (do people Tung oil guitars?) put in new pots (these are a wee bit scratchy sometimes) and put my own logo on the head but there you go... my 1st fretless bass. I would have typed this up hours ago but I just couldn't put down my new toy - even if the neighbours were in bed.

So back to the point of this thread - what should I know about setting up (intonation etc.) a fretless from scratch?

[b]the horrible white in the grain is filler - looks rough in the pic but is actually smoother than a baby's[/b]


[b]closer up[/b]


[b]even closer-er up[/b]


[b]from afar - looks reeeeally like a fretless.... NOT![/b]


[b]the Reds & my old band name[/b]

Edited November 21, 2007 by Ou7shined

[Bloodaxe]

Good fun innit? I've been merrily knocking £££ off the value of my old Aria SB-1000 to the same end [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5094"](thread here)[/url].

As to the stain - make sure you use spirit-based stain (the nanny state water based stuff is rubbish) & let it dry for a couple of days before doing anything else. The drawback with this is that if you dose the fingerboard with Lemon Oil from time to time it'll dissolve the stain & you'll end up plastered with it. The alternative is to stain & then varnish the fingerboard until you can see your face in it.

Setting up... Conventional wisdom says to get the maximum mwah the action needs to be as low as possible, which may mean you have to deepen the nut slots and/or shim the neck - if you're happy with it, leave well alone though. The intonation will be a bit of a lottery, as you'll need to "fret" the 12th bang on the marker to get the note. If you've got wide fingers, there's a fair bit of room for interpretation on this so let your ears guide you more so than the tuner (after all, Double Basses have a fixed, non adjustable bridge set perpendicular to the strings & that lot seem to cope).

Enjoy.

Pete.

[Mobius]

Try tuning with harmonics?

[Jase]

Fretless intonation....crazy! I was for ever tweaking my fretless for weeks, it's all trial and error and what feels good to you.

I found this link quite helpful:

[url="http://www.garywillis.com/pages/bass/bassmanual/setupmanual.html"]http://www.garywillis.com/pages/bass/bassm...etupmanual.html[/url]

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Bloodaxe' post='91954' date='Nov 21 2007, 03:31 AM']Good fun innit? I've been merrily knocking £££ off the value of my old Aria SB-1000 to the same end...[/quote]
LOL I've probably just [b]increased[/b] the value of mine
Loved reading about your project - looks great. I only wish, like yourself, I had access to the right tools.

Cheers for the tip on spirit-based stain - visit to b&q imminent.
...and yes, wide fingers.

I've been playing it a lot (poor old finger tips are starting to feel like the ones I wore out with the sandpaper) and I'm getting the hang off the fretless technique (used to play a fair bit of slide guitar) but oddly enough I feel I get more of a fretless "bwoaup" sound by using my defretter patches on my GT-6B and my fretted Ibanez. Perhaps shortening the nut will remedy this.

Edited November 21, 2007 by Ou7shined

[Ou7shined]

Thanks Jase, I'll check that out.

[Machines]

Looks like you did a good enough job of it. I did the same with my RBX775 - if you find the action too high after lowering the saddles it might be worth filing the nut a little lower too. I still need to do this with mine but haven't got myself some suitable files yet..

[Ou7shined]

Thanks man, I'm really chuffed with the neck - ended up doing a far better job of it than I intended - especially considering it only took a couple of hours. Yeah, the saddles physically can't get any lower and I reckon there's still a couple of mil left in it. Maybe I could file off the bottoms of the saddles to give myself that extra flexibility. Gonna have a crack at the nut in 10mins after my morning cuppa.

[Ou7shined]

[b]CLUCKING BELL! [/b] That's done the trick alright.
I've just been jamming away with myself and all those Del Palmer riffs that intrigued me as a youth came sliding off my bass. I've never leaned them they just came natural like. I got particularly hooked on playing the outro to KB's Breathing (although I don't think that that's one of Del's)
And now I know what the sub-harmoniser on my Ashdown is really for - not just doing Mc Hammers "You can't touch this" during longer than expected breaks between songs to the amusement of the great unwashed.

I can't believe that I gave this gee-tar up for dead! :wub:

[Mikey D]

[quote name='Jase' post='92013' date='Nov 21 2007, 09:56 AM'][url="http://www.garywillis.com/pages/bass/bassmanual/setupmanual.html"]http://www.garywillis.com/pages/bass/bassm...etupmanual.html[/url][/quote]

Probably the best article you will find on the subject. Gary's my boy!

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

Its better to shim the neck rather than filing the saddles. Just cut a strip from piece of card. Take out the neck screws put the shim in the neck pocket and reasemble.The angle the neck sits will be steeper now and you can raise/lower the bridge saddles to get the optimum height. I wanted very low action but the bridge high, so I used a strip from the wife's credit card when I made my fretless precision.

[hogman]

Setting up a fretless... Steady away bit at a time. I have never worried about setting intonation to much as I was not keen on the lines they told fibbs, when I started to actually listen my intonation seemed fine... Practcice in the dark oooo dicky dark ooooo

It took me round the houses to find the right gauge of strings though and yes I started where I started if you see what I mean and the process cost a few beers.

I have allways put a complete shim in the neck to keep the neck angle the same so i dont get a hump in it but thats just me... Also if you use cardboard you will need to have a bit extra tighten up as it squishes.

Good fun is fretless. My other latest thread I am hunting for the fatest strings to go down to a low E below E on a normal bass I guess you could say I am going sub Normal ha ha

Edited November 21, 2007 by hogman

[Ou7shined]

Great tip guys. I probably lost a bit off the back too when I sanded off the varnish.

I hope it was your wifes current CC Jean-Luc

I've got 4 year old Fender stainless 55-105's on, they seem ok for now although the G string is a bit bright for my liking. I seem to be forcing the fretless "bwoaup" sound just now and when I go on th G it pops a bit. I guess I'll learn to be more subtle as time goes on.

Right where's that Cornflakes box.........

[Ou7shined]

Just back from our weekly practice and OMFG!
I decided to travel light for a change and just took my fretless and a lead - usually take my Ibanez + GT-6B etc. etc.. Frankly we sounded unbelievable! I was having fun and the new axe inspired little fills here and there and the guys were simply blown away by how pro it sounds and were full of compliments about my own playing. I chose a completely diff EQ too. Normally I go for smiley face but in order to get a purer fretless sound I went for a sad face. Played thru the house's Ashdown MAG 300 1x15 combo, normally it feels gutless but not tonight. I just wish I could use this guitar for the whole set, like I did tonight, but there are heavy songs that it just doesn't suit and I need the tightness of frets. However we've been booked for an acoustic private session in Feb so I will probably just take it along - it will be all prettied up by then too.

[MB1]

MB1.

Get it to go into the bank first with the shotgun under its trenchcoat, while you casually drive away in the getaway car!...... simple.....

[Ou7shined]

Ha ha I was reading that for ages before it clicked. It's late ok.

Anyway I ain't no lagger and that bass is me new mucker.

[MB1]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='93610' date='Nov 24 2007, 02:10 AM']Ha ha I was reading that for ages before it clicked. It's late ok.

Anyway I ain't no lagger and that bass is me new mucker. [/quote]

MB1.
Good luck with your bass mate!
all the best
Martin.