Not being allowed much creative influence

[Alfie]

Previously I have been in bands from their inception and so I have naturally had a strong creative influence in the band's sound. However I joined my most recent band quite late on, so they already have dozens of songs written by a very strong song writing partnership, there also happen to be 9 other people in the band so creative input is very limited. Now I don't mind this as playing for the song is the most important thing, but it can be tough when the band leader basically only wants roots or umpah-umpah sounds and I naturally want to be a bit more melodic.

Who else has been in/ is in a band where your influence is minimal and how did you/ do you cope?

Is being in a band solely about playing bass or do you need creative input to fully enjoy yourself?

[OldGit]

Can you input to new material? Ask if you can have a goa t the bass line before they create one. That would be the way to go and allow you to show what you can do.


My drummer mate and I met up with a guy last week who plays guitar and synth guitar. We were looking at the possibility of playing together.
He played his version of "living for the city" with programmed keyboard bits triggerd from his guitar and huge sub bass. I naturally went for a melodic line I could hear from the vocal and other lines, especially the middle bit.

"That's wrong" he said, sealing his fate.

[OutToPlayJazz]

I've been in this situation myself. The problem is that a lot of established bands are used to a "plodder" who usually just plays root notes as you mentioned. At the end of the day, there's nothing wrong with that, but we do like to play a bit more and sparkle a bit ourselves, don't we? Looking at the band you've joined, nine other people is a lot of players & you're not going to be able to play a lot in that massive sound without it sounding too crowded in a lot of ways.

If you find it frustrating, then leave. There are plenty of players out there willing to "plod", but also remember that at the end of the day, you have to play what's right stylistically for the music. If their opinion on this clashes with yours, then you're playing with the wrong people. Busier bass players work better in trios, anyway. In a trio with no rhythm guitard you can be as busy and creative as you want.

[Cat Burrito]

I've done both and it depends on the band. It's very satisfying contributing to the band but I've worked with 2 songwriters now who have tried writing parts and in one case even telling which bass I should be playing. If what they say genuinely works I am happy to shelve the ego and go with the flow, if they are an over opinionated idiot then I look elsewhere. Bands come & go so there is always a chance to be more creative next time and if the bands ideas are good, you can learn something. If not, get out now.

That said you are currently working on existing tunes, it could get better when the new stuff starts coming into play

[xilddx]

Doesn't bother me at all, I play them (and they are very well written lines I should add) with as much style and panache as possible and do little rhythmic flourishes where necessary. Anyway, stage performance is much more exciting to me than doing little extra bass fills here and there, I'd rather be dancing

We are bass players, we do what is right for the songs and the singers. That is where our pride should lie, not going rilly rilly ree like the guitar players.

[JTUK]

I never get told what to play...so either I am on the right lines or they don't notice anyway.
Either way I take it as a compliment.

In the case of the OP, I'd see how they sat with the songs and brush them up a tad so I enjoyed working on them.
In the event of new songs, I'd expect them to take my input or else what am I doing there...and then whether I can live with that.
If they just want a sideman to showcase THEIR songs, that is fine as well, I'd work out a fee I would charge them for gigs etc.

I assume this originals band gigs for little or no money..???

[ThomBassmonkey]

I've never been told what to play, I usually follow guitars but whether I just play roots or whether I do something more interesting has always been up to me.

My most recent band has been going for 6ish years before I joined and both previous bassists were very average from what I've heard (our guitarist has played the harder lines on the recordings) so there's lots of lines that he likes to keep the same, though I still have a little room for movement on them with runs and bridging notes etc.

[ahpook]

[quote name='silddx' post='845615' date='May 23 2010, 11:41 AM']Doesn't bother me at all, I play them (and they are very well written lines I should add) with as much style and panache as possible and do little rhythmic flourishes where necessary. Anyway, stage performance is much more exciting to me than doing little extra bass fills here and there, I'd rather be dancing

[i]We are bass players, we do what is right for the songs and the singers. That is where our pride should lie, not going rilly rilly ree like the guitar players.[/i][/quote]

plus the feckin one.

my italics for emphasis.

[velvetkevorkian]

Depends on the band, but I quite like doing the "sideman" thing. Less creative input means less overall responsibility IME. I can just turn up and play and not worry about the other stuff that goes with being in a band- its "their" band, so they can deal with irate promoters etc.

[Kiwi]

I bite, I claw, I savage, I go for blood, nothing gets in the way of me and my creativity.

Unless you have honey roasted cashew nuts.

[chris_b]

I mostly play what I want, but if someone else sees a bass line going somewhere different then, no problem, I’ll incorporate it. I might even learn something. I don’t really care as long as the band rocks.

I play bass and leave being an "Arteeeste" to others!!

[Prime_BASS]

I joined a band late, an they had a 'plodder' before I joined. They were more than happy to have me basically solo through songs.

Although I did start playing a small solo at the end of songs cause I was feeling it, but then our a'hole drummer started complaining saying it was annoying. So I did just to annoy him, Amd I know that's its because we are very bass driven anyway, an he hates not being the last one to be heard. Even on some songs where it was decided it would be me playing and that's it he can't resist tapping something.

At the end of the day if it fits and sounds good, my policy is, don't tell me what to play and I won't tell you.

[Happy Jack]

I play in a covers band (70's pub rock style) so I'm not sure if my input is of value here, but I'm with silddx on this one - I'm there to play what the song needs.

If Mick Jagger wants to turn up and tell me what to play during [i]Honky Tonk Women[/i] then, hey, that's what I'll do. You have the song-writer right there, and you have to assume that he has a pretty good idea of what was in his head while he wrote it.

Doesn't stop you from offering to show him some alternative basslines, though. That's what rehearsals are for, surely?

Try something like: "I know what you've asked me to play, and that's what I'm playing, but can we run through that song again so I can show you what I [b]could [/b]be playing instead? You never know, you might prefer it."

On the flip side, there have been a few occasions where someone in my band has asked me specifically to play something very different to what I had in mind, and their idea has turned out to be better than mine.

I have to say that I would hate to spend an entire set playing root notes, or country two-feel. That's not a value judgment on music that calls for simple basslines ... more a comment on my own very low boredom threshhold.

Edited May 23, 2010 by Happy Jack

[bartelby]

Once I've got the basics of the song down I'll improvise. I find it pretty dull to play the same thing all the time...
On the rare occasions I have to play a cover I'll play as close to the original as possible, if required.

[chris_b]

In one band we do half a dozen ZZ Top numbers and mostly I just play the original 1 or 2 note bass lines. I look forward to those numbers as the band just "rawks"! Any more and the whole thing would be ruined.

[Narcissism]

I was fortunate enough to be in bands that didn't have an ear for bass. So the only time they actually knew what I was playing was when we sat down and recorded a demo. Often times it'd be like "That's the bass line? All this time I thought you were just playing flashy versions of the root notes!"

Its okay, I got them back. To this day, I have no idea what the singers/screamers lyrics were Could be puppies and jellyfish for all I care!

[Mykesbass]

[quote name='silddx' post='845615' date='May 23 2010, 11:41 AM']We are bass players, we do what is right for the songs and the singers. That is where our pride should lie, not going rilly rilly ree like the guitar players.[/quote]

Silddx is absolutely on the money here - except for one really important point - it's "widdly widdly woo"

[Alfie]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='845605' date='May 23 2010, 11:33 AM']If you find it frustrating, then leave. There are plenty of players out there willing to "plod", but also remember that at the end of the day, you have to play what's right stylistically for the music. If their opinion on this clashes with yours, then you're playing with the wrong people. Busier bass players work better in trios, anyway. In a trio with no rhythm guitard you can be as busy and creative as you want.[/quote]

I like the people in the band and it is generally fun, so I will stick with it


[quote name='BurritoBass' post='845608' date='May 23 2010, 11:35 AM']That said you are currently working on existing tunes, it could get better when the new stuff starts coming into play[/quote]

The songwriters produce a couple of new songs each week, they have hundreds of the buggers with very fixed ideas on how they should sound.

I like being in the band, I like listening to the music and I am happy to play roots if that is the best thing for the song. I just wish we could have a couple of free form songs. The problem is that whenever a jam song comes up, the band leader says he has a bass line for it, so everyone gets to jam except me and the bass lines are generally boring or guitar line transposed to bass (which seldom work imho).

Deep down I know that in band with so many 'lead instruments'(guitar, fiddle, mandolin, banjo, harmonica, flute) I am going to have to accept that simple is best. If I had more time then I would form a smaller group as well.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Alfie' post='845598' date='May 23 2010, 11:26 AM']it can be tough when the band leader basically only wants roots or umpah-umpah sounds and I naturally want to be a bit more melodic.[/quote]


To echo what's been said already... what approach is best for the song? Do that one.

If it's the latter and they won't budge... look for another band.

If it's the former but you want to be more melodic for the sake of it, prepare to have you gig nicked by someone else.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='845894' date='May 23 2010, 05:28 PM']To echo what's been said already... what approach is best for the song? Do that one.

If it's the latter and they won't budge... look for another band.

If it's the former but you want to be more melodic for the sake of it, prepare to have you gig nicked by someone else.[/quote]

Just get a really deep dark fat P-bass tone going and you can do what you like...worked for John Deacon anyway, he zooms around all over the place on some Queen tracks but no-one except other bass players notice! Of course, he's always on the money where it counts.

It's fine to keep it simple if it's what the music demands, but it sounds like for some of your stuff the lines you're being asked to play aren't actually that good even in context. Maybe try keeping to their ideas to start with on a track then when they've stopped paying attention embellish things a little bit? Or subtly switch to simple lines that work better?

[OldGit]

[quote name='Alfie' post='845890' date='May 23 2010, 05:22 PM']The problem is that whenever a jam song comes up, the band leader says he has a bass line for it, so everyone gets to jam except me and the bass lines are generally boring or guitar line transposed to bass (which seldom work imho).[/quote]

Well that's just not fair...
Have that conversation and agree to play root fifth as required on other tunes to placate the drummer and songwriters.

[Prime_BASS]

What kind of music is being played?
Sorry if it's been said but I can't seem to find it.

Also, that's not jamming is it? You won't get unless you ask.
Just say simply:
"I thought we was jamming"
"yeah but I want you to play this instead." (boring root notes)
"I see but I think it sounds better this way."

if he pipes up you might be best to see what the guitarist says. Our guitarist loves me being able to keep up with literally whatever he plays, and is surprised sometimes since I'm 'missing' 2 strings.

When I jam I go crazy and slap some crazy funk riffs, but alas no one can follow.

[4 Strings]

Done both, been in original material bands from their inception, MY bass lines were the right ones. Also done covers where Jamerson,or whoever's bass lines are the right ones.

I am in a band now, exactly as yours, 10 songs already, songwriter gives almost perfect demos with drums, bass etc all done. The rest of us become instrument operators. The choices are about whether you like the material, happy to play someone else's bass lines etc all effect whether you bother. But the OP's question was 'how do you cope?'

For me, once I'd decided to go with it, I play exactly what's required and then offer my suggestions. Some are welcomed, others are not, but normally the reason explained, which actually is very helpful. The issue for me is that I like lines, not roots. I get given mainly roots and that's what's wanted. It is frustrating, but I have fingers in other pies elsewhere which give, even encourage, more creativity, this one gives me more discipline.

[Alfie]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' post='846049' date='May 23 2010, 09:28 PM']What kind of music is being played?
Sorry if it's been said but I can't seem to find it.[/quote]

It's folk. When I signed up I was thinking Fairport or Steeleye Span, there are some pretty juicy basslines in the world of folk, but in reality it is more country.

I may have to put my foot down with the 'jam' songs, if I am going to travel 45 mins each way for rehearsals then I am going to need at least one fun song to get all the superfluous notes out of my system.

[thepurpleblob]

Sometimes we get to lead and sometimes we get to follow - it's all good.

I played in a country-esque band for about 5 minutes and while it was all root-fifth it was still surprisingly challenging to nail the feel absolutely spot on. If the line is basically simple then you get to concentrate on your feel and dynamics rather than packing 50 notes into the bar - something like that