How much focus have you had to 'copy' someone?

[Guest leebass69]

I'm kinda wondering how many have studied, practised a certain bassist's style or did you aim for a certain sound only? And if it was either/both of these where did you go after this point? When I cast my mind back a little (lot) I didn't realise I had my own way with what I thought I was producing....in a way maybe it was a happy accident. Maybe? So..where did you start, aim for and what, when and why did anything change for you-for good or bad?

This should be fun....!

[velvetkevorkian]

I have invested quite a lot of time emulating Billy Sheehan's three finger technique, but my aim was never to sound like him; it seemed the most logical way to get up to the speed I needed to be at to play the music I play. It was definitely good for me in the long run, as I can now play at high speed for extended periods when required. Nowadays I try to pick and choose elements from a variety of other peoples' playing that I like, rather than going for one specific sound.

[Guest leebass69]

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='852884' date='May 31 2010, 08:03 PM']I have invested quite a lot of time emulating Billy Sheehan's three finger technique, but my aim was never to sound like him; it seemed the most logical way to get up to the speed I needed to be at to play the music I play. It was definitely good for me in the long run, as I can now play at high speed for extended periods when required. Nowadays I try to pick and choose elements from a variety of other peoples' playing that I like, rather than going for one specific sound.[/quote]

You know...that sounds a lot like mine. You used the word 'invest' and for me, it's the best word for it-a certain amount of pain/cramping has in the long run paid off as you know. For me, wanting to be a drummer (but my Mum wouldn't let me) I think I've always been more open to drum patterns as well as obviously bass players but I take a lot of note from orchestral pieces now-it's amazing how much colour you can add to what you already do..

Cheers fella, Lee

[Doddy]

I started off by trying to emulate Jaco,before I heard Marcus Miller. I learned everything I could by Marcus for
a while,and I still sit down and work through some of his stuff regularly. It was the Jaco and Marcus influence
that made me start playing a Jazz Bass. Even now,I go through phases where I get really into a certain player
and learn as much of their stuff as I can. I've done it with players like Victor Wooten,Les Claypool,Janek Gwizdala
and loads more.Sometimes even just listening to a certain player for extended periods gives me new ideas that
I don't need to particularly practice,but will seep into my playing-not always bass players either
The whole idea is not to become a blatant copy of these guys,but to take ideas and incorporate them into your
own playing so that you have a large vocabulary which you can then take in your own direction.

[MacDaddy]

my technique comes from having played classical guitar. I was inspired to play bass because of Nikki Sixx who is not the best bass player in the world (probably not even the best bass player in Crue ) but only copy him in so much as I run about the stage, pose and throw shapes.

[renniks]

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='852884' date='May 31 2010, 08:03 PM']I have invested quite a lot of time emulating Billy Sheehan's three finger technique, but my aim was never to sound like him; it seemed the most logical way to get up to the speed I needed to be at to play the music I play. It was definitely good for me in the long run, as I can now play at high speed for extended periods when required. Nowadays I try to pick and choose elements from a variety of other peoples' playing that I like, rather than going for one specific sound.[/quote]

Like leebass before me said, this sums up what I hope I can do regarding my learning, taking things I get inspiration from and investing my time in learning all I can from it. No point reinventing the wheel, much more productive to develop the one already their

[urb]

For me there are great things in so many players but aside from obvious stylistic things that a player like Jaco, Marcus, Victor or Matt Garrison that immediately identifies them as bassists, I try to approach my playing with an idea first and the style second - i.e. do I want to mute now? or slap? or solo? - then I find the technique to suit the idea - and try always to let the music dictate what I play rather than the other way round.

[garethox]

Pretty obvious really (!) but I have spent a lot of time and effort studying John Entwistle, nigh on 20 years actually ( the first five years or so was Bruce Foxton). Listening over and over again till I 'hear' what he is doing and then put it into practice.
Even though I know the lines and songs backward, occasionally he'll do something I missed the first hundred listens and I think 'How the hell did he do that?' - then I practice till I can do it.
When I'm playing Who stuff with my band or the WHO2 stuff on YT, I play John's lines - on other stuff, his style always informs my playing - takes me up some interesting avenues!

Edited June 2, 2010 by garethox

[Bilbo]

I have spent time looking at Jaco, Percy Jones and Jeff Berlin but eventually figured out its the music that counts not the player.

Study music not musicians.

It is wonderfully useful to recognise the techniques people use; finger style using alternate, three or even four fingers, slapping, double thumbing, tapping etc but, for me, the important thing is to learn the TECHNIQUE only and not to spend too long with the player a, because you will inevitably fail to sound like them so it is a fools errand and, b, because that is not a way to make great music. Learn the music. Learn what makes bebop work. Learn to play funk grooves. Learn to shred. Learn what chords sound like. I posted something here ages ago about not wasting time learning party tricks like Donna Lee/Dixie/Amazing Grace etc. If you want to play bebop leanr anything by Parker EXCEPT Donna Lee. This is the stuff that will take you places. Learning a load of other players party pieces, however great the original;, will bring you very little return in the long run.

THe problem with finding your true path is in recognising that you are already on it.

[garethox]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='854880' date='Jun 2 2010, 02:21 PM']Study music not musicians.

Learning a load of other players party pieces, however great the original;, will bring you very little return in the long run.

THe problem with finding your true path is in recognising that you are already on it.[/quote]

All that is true to a certain degree... but if you are in a tribute act and the band you cover is literally part of your DNA (not just a gig) and playing their style brings yourself and others enormous pride and satisfaction - then that is just as important is it not?

[endorka]

I think I'll be in agreement with Bilbo here - while I've occassionally become fascinated with certain musicians for a while, my biggest influence would be the music as a whole. I do a lot of arrangements for various types of ensemble, for example a couple of years ago I spent a solid week to transcribing and re-arranging all the instrumentation for five classic Dusty Springfield songs. What an education - I was never the same again! Nothing beats getting your ear right into the centre of the music in this way. There is so much to be gained from the totality of the music... even from a bass perspective, it helps if you understand the greater musical context that the line was working in.

Jennifer

[garethox]

Different folks.... different strokes I guess!

[BenTunnicliffe]

I spent a hell of a lot of time (like a lot of people ahve already said about themselves) TRYING to emulate Jaco by listening to his records, buying the books, reading the charts and even going down similar avenues of education as him like I bough the book by Nikolas Slonimsky "Thesaurus of Melodic Scales and Patterns" to try and sound like the man himself.
I gave up on this when I started to pretty much digg my head out of this initial honeymoon period of hearing him for the first time and also realising that his sound and playing style etc aren't very friendly for doing varied session work.
You hear his influence in a lot of the session guys but trying to convince an engineer that a bridge pickup-only sound with brand new strings and a lot of honky mid will do the low-end good in a rock song is a pretty hard thing to do.

Stopping emulating Jaco also was also helped by starting to listen to Victor Wooten and his contemporaries talking about being yourself and letting things come naturally.

Bit of a rant but for me going through the Jaco stuff I got a nice basis for technique, insight into improvisation, rhythm, harmony and individualism but breaking out of that was equally beneficial in different ways with both these processes being hugely important to me.

The more musicians I run this by the more of them I find did at one point have a phase of copying someone or another, infact a huge majority.

[JTUK]

I just nicked little tricks that I liked from whoever and now they are one big mash so never set out to copy or ape anyone.
I just wanted to give myself a box of tools to do what I wanted.
I hope I sound like me... and have empathy within my style with what I am trying to play.

I really can't see the point of sounding like some other guy... no point at all.

[51m0n]

[quote name='JTUK' post='856946' date='Jun 4 2010, 10:30 AM']I just nicked little tricks that I liked from whoever and now they are one big mash so never set out to copy or ape anyone.
I just wanted to give myself a box of tools to do what I wanted.
I hope I sound like me... and have empathy within my style with what I am trying to play.

I really can't see the point of sounding like some other guy... no point at all.[/quote]

+1 from me!

[Bilbo]

[quote name='BenTunnicliffe' post='856787' date='Jun 4 2010, 02:23 AM']Bit of a rant but for me going through the Jaco stuff I got a nice basis for technique, insight into improvisation, rhythm, harmony and individualism but breaking out of that was equally beneficial in different ways with both these processes being hugely important to me.[/quote]

You've hit the nail on the head, Ben. Study improvisation, rhythm and harmony and not Jaco and the student will get to where s/he needs to be a lot quicker.

[Kongo]

I use an odd method I self dubbed the "Mimic Infusion Process".
For as long as I can remember I've been doing this...started off with Steve Harris, onto Les Claypool, Victor Wooten, Billy Sheehan etc etc etc.
I learn about their play style, what makes them tick, and focus on learning as much as I can by learning their songs and then pulling them appart.
Why did they play that lick? why was it played in this why? Why was it useful to them and how could it better myself?

I delve into it as deep as I can before I become borderline copy cat (play wise not look wise), then I back off and ween myself of it by going back into my songs, compositions, exercises and techniques and when my side comes back strongly again I find that that players style and influence has indeed embedded itself into my playing, my mind and hands have fused with my way and this players way.
With each player it's become such a journey.

I dunno if this is perhaps some insane way of learning but I like it, at first it was accidental I mean, Harris was all I knew!
Now tho I have a more structured take on it.
So to recap:

Get to a level of your own playing
Become inspired by a bassist (must enjoy them, no point in forcing)
learn their songs
Pick them apart
Identify techniques, theoretical approach (if thats ur bag), interesting note choices, common patterns
Become borderline copycat (bedroom more than band, dont wanna undo your own work afterall)
Come back off of it by solidly playing your own stuff (in a sense, become a mimic of yourself...interesting)
Congrats! You are now fused!

I wonder if this is more of a unique mental approach than one that could be taught...but if anyone feels like trying do let me know how it goes.
You gain such a myriad of hybrid techniques its unreal and open up to many more note choices also.

Edited June 17, 2010 by Kongo

[Bloodaxe]

[quote name='JTUK' post='856946' date='Jun 4 2010, 10:30 AM']I just nicked little tricks that I liked from whoever and now they are one big mash so never set out to copy or ape anyone.
I just wanted to give myself a box of tools to do what I wanted.
I hope I sound like me... and have empathy within my style with what I am trying to play.

I really can't see the point of sounding like some other guy... no point at all.[/quote]

I think this just about sums up my approach too, nick bits off everybody from Jack Bruce to Clapton to Page to Jon Lord and then mash 'em up. It seems to work best when it's spontaneous & the purloined bits just fall into place - I suspect this is a more relaxed, carefree variant of Kongo's approach. Also don't rule out unconscious influences - they can have a habit of inveigling their way into your style without you really being aware (or even wanting them to), & it's not until someone comes up to you & says "Do you like [artist]?" that the penny drops.

I'm a huge admirer of Jack Bruce (for his immediately indentifiable technique) and Neil Murray (for his uncanny ability to keep busy in a tune without getting in the way), but fall a long way short of 'mimicry'.

Petty Theft, yes. Mimicry, no.

Had a go mimicing Bruce, but gave it up as a bad job - figured I was better off trying to sound like me than some other bugger

Pete.

[thisnameistaken]

I've never deliberately copied anyone. When I was 18 I'd ended up with a lot of Jaco's trademark sound from listening to him too much, but apart from that I don't think I've ever sounded much like one particular player.

I think the biggest influence on me were the disco, punk, 2Tone, post-punk, "new romantic", electro, old-school hip-hop and acid-jazz bands. All stuff from before I actually picked up a bass.

[Delberthot]

A lot of very formal answers about study and buying books and getting a teacher etc which may work for someone who wants to learn the ins and outs or scales, modes and a load of other stuff that I don't understand.

When I first picked up the bass when I was 12 I didn't want to be like anyone, I simply wanted to play along to records. If I heard a tune I liked, I'd try and learn it.

I was a huge Queen fan and enjoyed learning as much as I could. I went to see Eric Clapton when I was 14 and began listening to Nathan East as I thought it was amazing to see a guy playing the hell out of a bass with far too many strings and still being able to laugh and dance on stage.

Shortly afterwards I first listened to 'Appetite for Destruction' and wore out the cassette tape by listening to it so much.

It wasn't until I was 16 that I first heard the Chilis and Primus and that took me to a whole different level.

i've listened to Jaco, Manring, Marcus Miller, Victor Wooton and all the others but find them boring as hell and don't seem to add anything that I would consider useful enough to want to learn from any of them. I get bored listening to people even talking about Jaco.


Getting a good teacher, buying a good intructional book/DVD/etc may appeal to someone who wants to learn scales, apreggios, perhaps stuff that their favourite bass player did when they were starting out but it isn't necessarily the best way for everyone and I don't feel that I have lost out in any way.

In fact, I bought my first book last week - Progressive Tapping Technique.

Its something I've wanted to learn for a long time but because of its complexity of playing multiple notes at once, I felt a book would be the best way to learn as I can see the notes written down.

I don't want to learn it so I can be like anyone else, just for something a bit different to add in during a gig where the music allows it.


I know Bilbo is a big fan of proper learning and technique and as far as learning upright goes I'd absolutely agree as a bad techinque can lead to physical problems later down the line but its not what everyone wants or needs. If I had gone in that direction when I was first picked up the bass I'd probably have given it up long ago.

[Kongo]

[quote name='Delberthot' post='884830' date='Jul 3 2010, 02:54 PM']A lot of very formal answers about study and buying books and getting a teacher etc which may work for someone who wants to learn the ins and outs or scales, modes and a load of other stuff that I don't understand.

When I first picked up the bass when I was 12 I didn't want to be like anyone, I simply wanted to play along to records. If I heard a tune I liked, I'd try and learn it.

I was a huge Queen fan and enjoyed learning as much as I could. I went to see Eric Clapton when I was 14 and began listening to Nathan East as I thought it was amazing to see a guy playing the hell out of a bass with far too many strings and still being able to laugh and dance on stage.

Shortly afterwards I first listened to 'Appetite for Destruction' and wore out the cassette tape by listening to it so much.

It wasn't until I was 16 that I first heard the Chilis and Primus and that took me to a whole different level.

i've listened to Jaco, Manring, Marcus Miller, Victor Wooton and all the others but find them boring as hell and don't seem to add anything that I would consider useful enough to want to learn from any of them. I get bored listening to people even talking about Jaco.


Getting a good teacher, buying a good intructional book/DVD/etc may appeal to someone who wants to learn scales, apreggios, perhaps stuff that their favourite bass player did when they were starting out but it isn't necessarily the best way for everyone and I don't feel that I have lost out in any way.

In fact, I bought my first book last week - Progressive Tapping Technique.

Its something I've wanted to learn for a long time but because of its complexity of playing multiple notes at once, I felt a book would be the best way to learn as I can see the notes written down.

I don't want to learn it so I can be like anyone else, just for something a bit different to add in during a gig where the music allows it.


I know Bilbo is a big fan of proper learning and technique and as far as learning upright goes I'd absolutely agree as a bad techinque can lead to physical problems later down the line but its not what everyone wants or needs. If I had gone in that direction when I was first picked up the bass I'd probably have given it up long ago.[/quote]

That's how a lot of bassists got where they are....you named one, Les Claypool, he learned by listening to records and learning them and by "putting my fingers where theirs are on TV".
Steve Harris wanted to be a pro footballer...he plays his bass when he wants and doesn't when he doesn't, yet he's got some mad right hand speed and control.
Billy Sheehan also, he's a dunce even to TAB, and the biggest user of the baseball bat grip hehe but I wouldn't argue with his technique, skill or 4000+ gigs he's done.

I've personally done a bit of both cause I went music college for 3 years. I think there isn't a right or wrong way, and bad technique is only bad if it harms or nerfs you playing somewhat, if it's what makes you you and play how you do then it's just personal play style.
I recon more upstarts should just play to records and learn "music" instead of over thinking and training as many techs as they can, yet cannot use more than 2.

[Doddy]

The thing with players like Claypool,Harris and Sheehan,is that they are very much 'stylists'- they do what they do very well,but that's it(although Claypool did have some basic 'formal' training).So for me,that argument doesn't work because the players I prefer have all studied music to some degree,and are more versatile.
It really all depends what you want from music. Every player listens to others and initially copies what they like to hear,but few go beyond it.
I don't get why a player wouldn't want to get as much information about what they do as possible,but there are a lot of people who don't. The best and busiest players that I know have all studied music both formally and informally.

[Paul_C]

I came back to playing bass after a long break (I originally picked one up because I was sick of lugging around/setting up/packing away drums) but never made much effort to copy anyone (or learn much!) when I started out.

I've rarely fixated on anyone whether it be a drummer or bass player, and as I get to make up my own bass parts I usually sound like me

There are times where I take a step back and modify what I'm playing if I feel it will improve the song, but it never involves a concious effort to mimic anyone else's style.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='Doddy' post='885434' date='Jul 4 2010, 01:11 PM']The thing with players like Claypool,Harris and Sheehan,is that they are very much 'stylists'- they do what they do very well,but that's it(although Claypool did have some basic 'formal' training).So for me,that argument doesn't work because the players I prefer have all studied music to some degree,and are more versatile.[/quote]

I disagree with this way of thinking.

I do think it's important to learn something about what you're doing, but clearly some very successful people never learned much about what they were doing. And let's be honest, every bass player who was ever an icon or a role model was a one-trick pony. Or maybe it's not fair to call them that, because all we're really saying is that they sounded unique.

I would much rather sound recognisable and be the go-to man for my sound, than be able to half-arsedly fake a lot of different styles. Whenever I see ads like "Bass player available, can play x different styles" I just think "Well he probably doesn't care too much about most of what he plays and he probably doesn't sound all that authentic." If I wanted an elevator version of several different musical genres (say if I was soundtracking JobFinder) I'd hire someone like that, but if I wanted to do one genre properly I'd look harder and find a specialist.

Edited July 4, 2010 by thisnameistaken

[teen t-shirt]

i suppose for me when i first picked up bass i learnt songs first but then because i was bought up on queen i honed in on John and his melodies and the dusty end bits he would play in some of the intro's to some of queens ballads so when i have to noodle and solo and get up the dusty end i like to emulate john...

where as with my general playing style and attitude and on stage i moved towards Rob Trujillo because the man is a monster on the stage and has serious chops i even adapted his stance the way he holds and plays the bass and also his walk...
so for me i kind of take Rob as my main bass idol and emulate him and also throw in my own mannerisms and attitude and if i have to noodle and solo and get up the dusty end of the neck i suddenly become the curly haired statue that is John Deacon who is a legend in his own right...

but i did go about it in my own way i would sometimes just sit and noodle for hours on end and then other times i would focus in on a certain technique or a certain riff or solo that they play and then adapt it to the comfiest way of doing it for me...