How much focus have you had to 'copy' someone?

[Doddy]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='885834' date='Jul 4 2010, 09:26 PM']I disagree with this way of thinking.

I do think it's important to learn something about what you're doing, but clearly some very successful people never learned much about what they were doing. And let's be honest, every bass player who was ever an icon or a role model was a one-trick pony. Or maybe it's not fair to call them that, because all we're really saying is that they sounded unique.

I would much rather sound recognisable and be the go-to man for my sound, than be able to half-arsedly fake a lot of different styles. Whenever I see ads like "Bass player available, can play x different styles" I just think "Well he probably doesn't care too much about most of what he plays and he probably doesn't sound all that authentic." If I wanted an elevator version of several different musical genres (say if I was soundtracking JobFinder) I'd hire someone like that, but if I wanted to do one genre properly I'd look harder and find a specialist.[/quote]

That's fine,I get what you mean,but if you want to be a working player,you will have a longer career having more versatility. While I can appreciate 'stylists',unless their band gets lucky they are unlikely to sustain a career.
There are many versatile players out there who do not sound like an 'elevator version' of several genres. That is why they keep working.

[Kongo]

[quote name='Doddy' post='885434' date='Jul 4 2010, 01:11 PM']The thing with players like Claypool,Harris and Sheehan,is that they are very much 'stylists'- they do what they do very well,but that's it(although Claypool did have some basic 'formal' training).So for me,that argument doesn't work because the players I prefer have all studied music to some degree,and are more versatile.
It really all depends what you want from music. Every player listens to others and initially copies what they like to hear,but few go beyond it.
I don't get why a player wouldn't want to get as much information about what they do as possible,but there are a lot of people who don't. The best and busiest players that I know have all studied music both formally and informally.[/quote]

You disappoint me, I usually like ur posts of wise words.
Harris is indeed a one trick pony but Sheehan is so misunderstood.
I suggest you listen to some Niacin, see how "Shred bassist Billy Sheehan" as all seems he is known for, does well in his 3 peice blues fusion band.
OMG yes thats right, Jazz influence...I see you all flocking there now!
Sheehan professes in rock, and almost being 60 years old he does it better than a lot of young players, but he's a genius in terms knowledge and lets not forget his gig experience...I wish I had over 4000 gigs to help me perfect my tone and play style...I do REALLY wish those days were alive but alas, venues are few and far between.
So as for busiest he's up there, his original bass is all natural wear, hardly something you see hence why Fender "Relic" instruments.
I get your point but in turn, ask you take mine, why does someone have to learn it all? Can't they just enjoy music in it's primitive form of art and enjoyment rather than science? My Audience would have no clue if I started talking theory with them...but they do know that that song they love sounded awesome!
And lets not forget, there's loads of excellent muso's in the world who stack shelves, it makes them no less of a musician that they are not famous or paid regularly for gigs.


Claypool is a little different, but only a little. I find nothing wrong with not being formally trained.
I have had 3 years of being trained also but I by far prefere the experience I get from playing. Especially when rock and metal are often looked down upon...we can all Jazz and Funk but do we HAVE to? Hell no!
If I'm to become a "One trick pony" I think I could be happy with that. I don't enjoy Jazz much, I have albums I like, such as Bitches Brew, but it's more background to me. It doesn't speak to me, my heart and mind don't go wild like they do when I hear something decent, be it any genre.
I do try, but I also wish others would accept musicians as they are. I've made a fair few people I've performed in front of happy, and they speak to me asking this and that and I love to talk to them, to me that's all I could ask for as being a performer, never mind how I was taught.

Music is an art form, lets not forget this...please, I'm done with Maths, I just like to have fun, so does the audience.

Edited July 7, 2010 by Kongo

[Doddy]

I'm not having a go at Sheehan,I'm a huge fan of his playing and own loads of albums with him on,as well as his
videos-I've even got a Yamaha Attitude.I think that he is probably the greatest rock bass player ever,but I still see
him as a 'stylist'. Niacin doesn't really do it for me-they are all great players but it doesn't blow me away.
As busy as he is,Sheehan is hired to be 'Billy Sheehan' and do what he does. That's cool,but it does place him as a
very stylistic player. Claypool is the same-I'm a massive fan,but he is 'stylistic'.
I've got no problem if a player want's to be a 'one trick pony' and develop one style,it's cool if that is what you want to
do,but I couldn't do that. I like being able to play a rock gig on electric one day,a jazz gig on upright the next,and then
sit in a theatre pit and read through a show.
That's why I have a preference for guys like Nathan East,Will Lee,Steve Pearce etc.

[Kongo]

[quote name='Doddy' post='888629' date='Jul 7 2010, 04:41 PM']I'm not having a go at Sheehan,I'm a huge fan of his playing and own loads of albums with him on,as well as his
videos-I've even got a Yamaha Attitude.I think that he is probably the greatest rock bass player ever,but I still see
him as a 'stylist'. Niacin doesn't really do it for me-they are all great players but it doesn't blow me away.
As busy as he is,Sheehan is hired to be 'Billy Sheehan' and do what he does. That's cool,but it does place him as a
very stylistic player. Claypool is the same-I'm a massive fan,but he is 'stylistic'.
I've got no problem if a player want's to be a 'one trick pony' and develop one style,it's cool if that is what you want to
do,but I couldn't do that. I like being able to play a rock gig on electric one day,a jazz gig on upright the next,and then
sit in a theatre pit and read through a show.
That's why I have a preference for guys like Nathan East,Will Lee,Steve Pearce etc.[/quote]

That's cool, shoulda known you weren't gonna go Jazz snobby on me, I've had a lot of it recently, guess I got a tad defensive, you have my apologies if I came off a bit brash.
I used to try and play everything, do session work etc but it was short lived as I found that I could play Jazz and Funk as I was schooled...that's all it was, I didn't have the natural feel and left a bit artificial...When I took a dive and went back into Metal, I brought with me my Funk and I guess a smidgen of Jazz (never been a big jazzer at best) and added it and it seems to go down well, enough to get people in awe of the bass...in a metal band! That being said tho "Metal" has MANY faces...Life is too short and from this experience I feel I'm at best, natural AND happiest in this genre, and no guitarist has ever been able to put me in the typical place for a bassist in a metal band. That being said, I only do what I feel is needed tho, no solo's here...That's for the bedroom!
So in this I've decided, at least for now, to concentrate on this area, it's my Niche per se, and I'm the happiest ever with it, I feel comfortable.

Sheehan and Claypool are in my heart more than others, Claypool was my 1st and Sheehan after (after I broke away from Iron Maiden etc). Claypool got me to gettin a 6-string (which is my voice indeed), and Billy keeps me playing the 4 string in my spare time...like two sides. Both are pretty much non or very little schooled and as much as I did 3 years of music academia I feel more at home playing to records than re-capping theory (it's still there if REALLY needed).
I do love Sheehan's take on his basses tho, being utility, and after trying Rickenbackers and seeing other bassists with two inputs, it does spark me to be a very useful tool. It's like a two bedroom flat, each person (pickup) has it's own space...One day I may try it myself.
Niacin doesn't blow my mind either, but it's a different Sheehan, and it's about as close to Jazz as I get these days. That being said Fusion is a little easier on me.

It's difficult to put, I've had both sides, but if someone is to start out, I don't feel it's wrong to just play records or play in bands if that's what you want to do, and THEN if you wish to further, by all means, go to a Jazz school or get classically trained (in my experience classical and Jazz theory do NOT mix).
For now, I'm jus gonna stay put...I love music so much and I'm right where I should be right now.

Edited July 7, 2010 by Kongo