JV Basses, are they really worth it?

[KevinJazzBass]

Hi guys,

I'm really interested in getting myself a JV Jazz bass because I love jazz basses and I've heard about how great these basses are to play. I think that alot of sellers set their prices way too way high based upon reputation, condition and how rare these instruments are becoming, up to £1200 if you want one from our German ebay friend or generally between £600 and £950 from private sellers on ebay and on here. However I have been looking around in the internet I and I cant seem to find much evidence of buyers ever paying much more than around £550 and most basses not selling because of the seller wanting too much. Am I missing something??

I guess the real question is, is the bass really worth it once you have played it. Im going to try a JV jazz tomorrow. It is a 1983 in real nice condition and I have managed to knock the seller down to £750, however I cant help feeling i still might be getting ripped off. Am I really be able to sell this bass on without losing alot of £££ or will it even go up in value?

What do you guys think? Any advice would be very much appreciated.

Thanks

Kev

[Protium]

Is JV the same as the "silver series"?

[Duarte]

No, the Silver Series is the same as the Silver Series.

There is probably no actual difference between them though.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Protium' post='852855' date='May 31 2010, 07:15 PM']Is JV the same as the "silver series"?[/quote]
Silver series are 1990s.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='KevinJazzBass' post='852834' date='May 31 2010, 06:57 PM']Hi guys,

I'm really interested in getting myself a JV Jazz bass because I love jazz basses and I've heard about how great these basses are to play. I think that alot of sellers set their prices way too way high based upon reputation, condition and how rare these instruments are becoming, up to £1200 if you want one from our German ebay friend or generally between £600 and £950 from private sellers on ebay and on here. However I have been looking around in the internet I and I cant seem to find much evidence of buyers ever paying much more than around £550 and most basses not selling because of the seller wanting too much. Am I missing something??

I guess the real question is, is the bass really worth it once you have played it. Im going to try a JV jazz tomorrow. It is a 1983 in real nice condition and I have managed to knock the seller down to £750, however I cant help feeling i still might be getting ripped off. Am I really be able to sell this bass on without losing alot of £££ or will it even go up in value?

What do you guys think? Any advice would be very much appreciated.

Thanks

Kev[/quote]

I wouldn't pay that much for one.

[nick]

They're nice guitars & basses, I think comparable to good Fenders, but not cheap.
Unless you're really set on having a JV, would recommend trying a few Tokais, Grecos, MIJ Fenders etc... too though.

[genendeddie]

Sorry guys I think there worth every penny and I have a brand new fender Highway one precission if any one wants to trade(haha)!!!!!

[thisnameistaken]

IME no they're not worth paying over the odds for. There are better Japanese 'Fenders' from that period. If you try it and you think it's worth the money then buy it, but that's Fender money, not Squier money. It probably won't appreciate in value in the same way that old Fenders do.

[Bassassin]

JVs are as expensive as they are because they're rare & collectable. Indisputably they are very good but you pay a lot for the little letters on the neckplate, you'll find as good quality in other MIJ Fenders & Squiers.

Nick's right about the other Japanese brands from the era - and in fact it's strongly rumoured that the very first JVs were actually off the Greco production run & were rebadged as Squier. There's some credence to this because the company which got the Fender Japan contract was Kanda Shokai, owner of the Greco brand, and one of the conditions of their contract was to cease selling replica-standard Greco copies - which is why Greco headstocks & other details changed at this point. JVs and later MIJ Fenders & Squiers came from Fujigen Gakki, the same factory Kanda contracted to build Greco.

Sorry - that was probably too much information...

Jon.

[Cat Burrito]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='852861' date='May 31 2010, 07:27 PM']Silver series are 1990s.[/quote]

And late 80s. I bought one in 1988

[OldGit]

All you want to know will be found here
[url="http://www.21frets.com/"]21 Frets website[/url]

They are not the same as teh Silver series.
They are good and some may be very good. How they compare as basses with other products will always be a matter of choice and taste as much as anything.
For £750 you have a huge amount of choice of new and used basses.

However, the JV series are collectible and constantly increasing in sales price. Not many basses are doing that.

So you take's your choice .....

[dlloyd]

As a (related) aside, how much would a 1982 Tokai Jazz bass set me back?




(related as in the early 1980s Tokais et al inspired Fender to begin production in Japan... [url="http://www.vintageguitar.com/features/brands/details.asp?AID=1195"]http://www.vintageguitar.com/features/bran...ls.asp?AID=1195[/url] )

Edited May 31, 2010 by dlloyd

[Rayman]

IMO my 1990 MIJ Squier Precision is as good a Precision as I've ever played, period. That includes custom shop MIAs, JVs etc etc, I've tried them all, and as nice as many of them were (Homers' P5 was particularly nice) for 200 quid from ebay (admittedly in a sorry state until I restored it) my Squier was a steal, and paying a grand for a JV is mad to me. It'd have to be utterly perfect at that price.

There's so much cobblers spoken about 'vintage' gear. I've played some absolute dogs from the 70s and 80s, and owned a couple too, on the flip side I had a very nice 78 Precision I wish I still had, but honestly, I believe my £200 Squier is better.

It doesn't matter where or when a bass was made, or by whom, it just matters that it plays and sounds great to you. Forget about the decals on the headstock, it really can be irrelevant.

[OldGit]

[quote name='Rayman' post='853054' date='May 31 2010, 10:15 PM']It doesn't matter where or when a bass was made, or by whom, it just matters that it plays and sounds great to you. Forget about the decals on the headstock, it really can be irrelevant.[/quote]

Depends on how you look at it.

There is so much more to the "value" of a bass than how it plays. Kudos, cool, fashion, peer pressure, ebay value, etc

The decal on the headstock, where it was made and by whom has a huge effect on it's resale value, no matter how it plays.

[Rayman]

Agreed, for resale or collectability, the decals are everything, but as far as how the thing plays and sounds, it really can mean nothing at all, again, only my opinion.

[KevinJazzBass]

Thanks for the great advice guys, I guess ill have to just go with my gut when i play it.

Kev

[Duarte]

It'll probably be awesome. DO it.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='OldGit' post='853063' date='May 31 2010, 10:28 PM']Depends on how you look at it.

There is so much more to the "value" of a bass than how it plays. Kudos, cool, fashion, peer pressure, ebay value, etc

The decal on the headstock, where it was made and by whom has a huge effect on it's resale value, no matter how it plays.[/quote]

The problem here is that your average Joe Guitard can't tell a JV from a £60 Affinity Squier - and will probably make the same dismissive assumptions.

Financial value's something else altogether and I'd love to find a JV P or J at my local car boot for £20, gig it for a couple of years and then flip it for £800 - odd!

J.

[Prime_BASS]

If you end up feeling you want it over anything better for the same price new or used, then buy it, still I would probably make a point of mentioning te fact that you've never seen one sell for more than £550, and try an haggle the price down a bit. Ive seen a JV jazz go for around £360 amd often question why eBay sellers have ridiculous prices, but someonne must be buying them at the higher prices.

After all something is only worth what a person is willing to pay for it. It's like the sudden trend of musicmasters on eBay. I've seen 1 or 2 go for deluxe squier monies, and some go for mex standard money, but I don't want one enough to pay the £1000 plus price tag someone puts on it.

[JTUK]

I must say that I approach each bass on an individual basis and don't subscribe..or rather, don't expect a whole batch or marque to be of the same exact quality at this price level. So, I would view and play this bass and then decide how much you like it..and then square that with what others say here. A bass is worth what someone will pay and these seem to be rare enough to be worth a prremium.. possibly

Also, if there was any doubt about it being a keeper..then I wouldn't buy it...
If it is just a case of getting a bass to play and then move it on when you find something better.....don't look at these bases.

My general view is that if you are mass producing huindreds/thousands of basses... some crap ones will slip through and you are also likley to accidently produce a really good one..mostly through the combinations of wood etc.

Sure..a period of basses can be generally described as sorted as the QC was good at that time..and conversely...there may be a bad time for that as well..
so judging each bass on an individual basis would be my thinking...

[OldGit]

[quote name='JTUK' post='853221' date='Jun 1 2010, 07:48 AM']I must say that I approach each bass on an individual basis and don't subscribe..or rather, don't expect a whole batch or marque to be of the same exact quality at this price level. So, I would view and play this bass and then decide how much you like it..and then square that with what others say here. A bass is worth what someone will pay and these seem to be rare enough to be worth a prremium.. possibly

Also, if there was any doubt about it being a keeper..then I wouldn't buy it...
If it is just a case of getting a bass to play and then move it on when you find something better.....don't look at these bases.

My general view is that if you are mass producing hundreds/thousands of basses... some crap ones will slip through and you are also likely to accidentally produce a really good one..mostly through the combinations of wood etc.

Sure..a period of basses can be generally described as sorted as the QC was good at that time..and conversely...there may be a bad time for that as well..
so judging each bass on an individual basis would be my thinking...[/quote]


Wise words but, as has been pointed out many times, the Japanese JV (Japan Vintage) series basses from 82-84 were so good that Fender had to raise their QC game in the US.

The US managers were allegedly crying at how good these "cheap foreign reproductions" were compared to the "real deal" coming out of California.
So your starting point, in terms of QC, is very high.

Individual basses do vary but the JV's have earned their reputation.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='OldGit' post='853353' date='Jun 1 2010, 10:14 AM']Wise words but, as has been pointed out many times, the Japanese JV (Japan Vintage) series basses from 82-84 were so good that Fender had to raise their QC game in the US.

The US managers were allegedly crying at how good these "cheap foreign reproductions" were compared to the "real deal" coming out of California.[/quote]

This article is fascinating...

[quote]Turning the CBS-controlled Fender around was a bit more problematic. It began in 1981, when two of Fender's executives - president Bill Schultz and V.P. Roger Balmer - decided that they'd had enough of hearing of the glory days of the pre-CBS era. Their first step was to bring in Dan Smith from Yamaha and make him head of Fender's guitar division. Smith knew of the high regard players had of the pre-CBS Fenders, and their even lower regard for the '70s equivalents. Smith, Schultz, and Balmer consulted with some of the key employees of the pre-CBS Fender era, including designer Freddie Tavares, pickup winder Gail Paz, and final assembly inspector Gloria Fuentes, each of whom had over 20 years experience at Fender. And John Page was also brought in; he would later lead Fender's renowned Custom Shop.

The initial goal wasn't so much to make an obvious reissue line, but to make Strats and Teles that were closer to their original specs.

"One of the first changes Dan Smith made was to revise the overall specs of the Strat," said Tony Bacon, the author of 50 Years of Fender (Backbeat Books). "And Bill Schultz recommended a program of investment, primarily to modernize the factory. This meant production was virtually stopped while new machinery was installed and staff re-trained."

Simultaneously, Schultz suggested making Fenders in Japan.

"Fender's sales were being hammered by oriental copies," Bacon added. "And Schultz figured that as the copyists made their biggest profits at home in Japan, that was the best place to hit back by making and selling Fenders there.

"The new management team planned for Fender, in effect, to copy itself by re-creating the '50s and '60s guitars that were responsible for what remained of Fender's reputation," said Bacon. "That's where the Vintage Reissue series came in."[/quote]

This part is particularly funny...

[quote]Advertising for the reissues began in mid 1982, but even there it wasn't entirely smooth sailing.

"When Fender introduced the vintage series in the earliest vintage replica catalog, it was really rather hilarious," said George Gruhn. "If you get out a magnifying glass or have good eyesight, and you look at the rear-view picture of the vintage Stratocaster reissue, you can read the brand name on the back of the tuners. It says 'Tokai'!

"It would appear that Fender didn't have their own thing ready, and they simply photographed a Tokai vintage replica Strat and either superimposed or stuck the Fender name on the peghead for the catalog and ran with it," he added. "But sure enough, the tuners say Tokai on them."[/quote]