old trace gear. how reliable?

[holio.cornolio]

Hi All,

I need a bigger / better / more versatile amp. Looking at the classifieds section, there's a fair few old Trace Elliot growlers knocking around for very sensible money, but I'm an amp noob, and have never really bought second hand, and don't want my fingers burnt. I'm not that fussed about how tidy the amp looks, but I don't want to drop £250+ on a second hand head, for it to go tits up mid gig. I'm thinking that whatever I do get, I'll have serviced immediately, but couldn't really afford to sort any nasty surprises out if any turned up (you, know the sort of thing - broken head gasket, worn clutch or whatever).
There's a couple of stinkers hanging around just now that I'm thinking make sense, some 4X10 combos and a GP12SMX head. What are the pitfalls, are they reliable and are they going to go pop as soon as I get the in front of an audience? From what I recall of my time gigging in the 90s, Trace used to make some powerful and toneful gear, but you don't see those old amps knocking around so much on stages these days, so did they all break down?
Thanks in advance

[PURPOLARIS]

I've just sold a Trace Head for £200 and to be honest it's worth every penny to whoever bought it, great amp. Never once let me down, just turn up to the gig, switch it on, play, switch it off, go home.

[Lfalex v1.1]

How old is "old"?
I have a 14-year old SMX head & 3 cabs (1203h, 1152 and 1084h)
No issues at all from the cabs. The head glitched once, and I had it serviced and fully tested by an ex-Trace employee. He knew what was up before he opened it!
The boards inside are connected by wires with push-fit spade terminals. Over time, they work loose. As a fix, he soldered all mine in place, cleaned the whole unit out, cleaned an re-lubed the graphic eq, replaced all the illumination, everything.
That's all I've had in 14 years.
Neither the amps nor the cabs are state-of-the-art by today's standards. They're perfectly giggable, but heavy!
I'd avoid the 4x10 combos- They're MEGA heavy and bulky and top heavy and you can't lock your arms to carry them and the cabinet volume is less than the standard 1048 to keep the weight down, so you lose a bit of bottom end.

[witterth]

The last engineer who repaired my amp commented how much it was "built like a tank" and no sell out on parts, all good stuff, as it were.
It was in for a dry joint which is/can be a hard thing to diagnose on the whole, but as the amp was trouble free for 25(+) years,so its got good form
I suppose nothing is "future proof" but with Trace Elliot gear I'd guess your'e on safe ground, but it IS a guess with second hand stuff (though mine was second hand 20 years ago)
whatever you choose make sure you can "push it" quite hard when testing,harder than you think you'd really need. then, all OK?
happy days!
cabs are easier, your ears will tell you if theres a problem there. replacement drivers are quite cheap in the scheme of things.
if you buy anything from the bass chat forum thats got a bit of an extra "gentlemans garantee" Ive found (especially from regular posters )
hope thats of some help
W

[witterth]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='853213' date='Jun 1 2010, 07:17 AM']How old is "old"?
I have a 14-year old SMX head & 3 cabs (1203h, 1152 and 1084h)
No issues at all from the cabs. The head glitched once, and I had it serviced and fully tested by an ex-Trace employee. He knew what was up before he opened it!
The boards inside are connected by wires with push-fit spade terminals. Over time, they work loose. As a fix, he soldered all mine in place, cleaned the whole unit out, cleaned an re-lubed the graphic eq, replaced all the illumination, everything.
That's all I've had in 14 years.
Neither the amps nor the cabs are state-of-the-art by today's standards. They're perfectly giggable, but heavy!
I'd avoid the 4x10 combos- They're MEGA heavy and bulky and top heavy and you can't lock your arms to carry them and the cabinet volume is less than the standard 1048 to keep the weight down, so you lose a bit of bottom end.[/quote]
for my future reference could you tell me who fixed your amp Lfalex?
good contacts for that sort of thing is good to have!
PM if there is a confidentiallity issue
ATB
W

[JTUK]

Generally..??? very reliable and pretty much bomb-proof.
I never liked the sound myself, but they can be considered solid workhorses and as such the first question I'd want to get to the bottom of, is why the guy is selling, people keep them for ages as they last for ages...typically.

[Lfalex v1.1]

It was Gavin at GM audio in Maldon...

Here you go:

GM AUDIO SERVICES LTD
UNIT 5, STOCK CHASE
CM9 4AA MALDON,
ESSEX

Phone: 07919404895

[witterth]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='853245' date='Jun 1 2010, 08:35 AM']It was Gavin at GM audio in Maldon...

Here you go:

GM AUDIO SERVICES LTD
UNIT 5, STOCK CHASE
CM9 4AA MALDON,
ESSEX

Phone: 07919404895[/quote]
Ta!

[dan670844]

[quote name='holio.cornolio' post='853207' date='Jun 1 2010, 06:39 AM']Hi All,

I need a bigger / better / more versatile amp. Looking at the classifieds section, there's a fair few old Trace Elliot growlers knocking around for very sensible money, but I'm an amp noob, and have never really bought second hand, and don't want my fingers burnt. I'm not that fussed about how tidy the amp looks, but I don't want to drop £250+ on a second hand head, for it to go tits up mid gig. I'm thinking that whatever I do get, I'll have serviced immediately, but couldn't really afford to sort any nasty surprises out if any turned up (you, know the sort of thing - broken head gasket, worn clutch or whatever).
There's a couple of stinkers hanging around just now that I'm thinking make sense, some 4X10 combos and a GP12SMX head. What are the pitfalls, are they reliable and are they going to go pop as soon as I get the in front of an audience? From what I recall of my time gigging in the 90s, Trace used to make some powerful and toneful gear, but you don't see those old amps knocking around so much on stages these days, so did they all break down?
Thanks in advance[/quote]

Reliable hell yes, I think most of 'em are still around. A lot of hire company's still have them on their books. Tone by the ton, esp. Mark V, Series 6 (11 and 12band). Why don't people gig 'em simple answer weight, all the old stuff, is stupidly heavy and you simply don't need that kind of power, with house sound etc. I used to borrow a Series 6 4x10 combo from a studio (Only 200watt, but felt like 600!!), lovely amp, never went wrong, but at 70 or so Kg and being top heavy, moving it was a nightmare esp getting in a out of cars etc you will do damage (and not to the amp!). Best Thing you can do is get a Trace Head and combine it with some modern cabs. AH300 series 6 with some Nemesis cabs is a good combination (NS115RS and 210RS) or even new Trace Cabs!. Then you can have a modular rig, as the Nemesis 210, with its high SPL will be good enough for most gigs, if stacked on its side) I can assure you it will be very loud!! (300 watts is the bare minimum it will put in, morelike 450watts across a wide freq range, expect stunning solid lows) I actually use a 130SM Series 6 (225 watt) for rehearsals through a high SPL 2x10 cab. Its loud!! only 225watts but It feels like 500! You will love the low end of these amps, its so solid and tight and goes right through you. The problem you may have is blowing drivers, the old Trace Speakers were make from Kevlar, to cope with the amount of energy going into them. There is a big difference between 300watt at 100hz and 300watt at 1khz (modern amps) and the nutters made a series 6 1200watt!! I cannot imagine why you would ever need that amount of power

D

[witterth]

Id agree with the fact that an Ah300/500 with 4x10 & 1x15, prehaps the "classic" Trace Elliot rig, is WAY too surplus to requirements for a lot of gigs. Id say it was designed for the very "pro" curcuit,( think.. carling academey or even stadium size shows) but now its more affordable .....why not? you can turn it down a bit!
from my point of view,I still use that type of thing on most gigs and the "trouser flap" thing of bass moving air,as well as lots of controll at your finger tips is something I (for one) enjoy.
Dans advice about combining more modern cabs with a Trace head is spot on I'd say though.
depends on your budget all in all.

[Conan]

I bought brand new TE gear in 1986. It was gigged hard and regularly until 2006. Never had a single issue with the amp (AH250) or either of the cabs. They are bloody heavy, but virtually indestructible!!!

[farmer61]

My gear below (for sale) has been bloody marvellous and only my back and knee's have neccesitated a sale.

I have both head - cab - cab and combo configurations all, as earlier stated, bomb proof!

[holio.cornolio]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='853213' date='Jun 1 2010, 07:17 AM']How old is "old"?
I have a 14-year old SMX head & 3 cabs (1203h, 1152 and 1084h)
No issues at all from the cabs. The head glitched once, and I had it serviced and fully tested by an ex-Trace employee. He knew what was up before he opened it!
The boards inside are connected by wires with push-fit spade terminals. Over time, they work loose. As a fix, he soldered all mine in place, cleaned the whole unit out, cleaned an re-lubed the graphic eq, replaced all the illumination, everything.
That's all I've had in 14 years.
Neither the amps nor the cabs are state-of-the-art by today's standards. They're perfectly giggable, but heavy!
I'd avoid the 4x10 combos- They're MEGA heavy and bulky and top heavy and you can't lock your arms to carry them and the cabinet volume is less than the standard 1048 to keep the weight down, so you lose a bit of bottom end.[/quote]
I think mid nineties old. I was into the idea of a 4x10 combo, but if I can't move it by myself it's a non starter. I'm currently using a fender 100watt 1 x15 combo, and I keep seeing 150 was te stuff; which doesn't sound like it will be loud enough, but from what I can tell, trace watts are at least 50% louder than normal watts! ls that right?
so after 14 years no power amp niggles?

[dan670844]

[quote name='holio.cornolio' post='853700' date='Jun 1 2010, 03:50 PM']I think mid nineties old. I was into the idea of a 4x10 combo, but if I can't move it by myself it's a non starter. I'm currently using a fender 100watt 1 x15 combo, and I keep seeing 150 was te stuff; which doesn't sound like it will be loud enough, but from what I can tell, trace watts are at least 50% louder than normal watts! ls that right?
so after 14 years no power amp niggles?[/quote]

Dude forget the 4x10 combo, like I said in my earlier post Mark V series 6 410 combi sound amazing and very loud. Even 150 watters, but you will only gig it once, a block of solid concrete the same size will be easier to move and will do less damage to your motor when you try and get it in / out. This is why they are so cheap! Think of trying to move around an angry washing machine that someone has filled with lead and you will get the picture!

Trace stuff was /still is pro gear, the difference between a 100 watt fender combo and a 150watt TE amp is night and day. If you really want old trace gear like i said go for a Mark V / Series 6 head with GP11 (mark v) or GP12. forget the latter SMX its too complicated although it sounds nice. These two models really are the best of the best. Don't worry about how old they are, there is not much to go wrong inside and EVERYTHING can be either repaired or replaced if necess in the power amp / preamp. Forgot the old trace cabs they sound sweet but a so heavy.

In conclusion!!! find a nice head AH250 - AH300 not a combo Series 6 or Mark V 11 or 12 band and get a high SPL nemesis cab either 2x10 first, then a 115rs or just go for the nemesis 410xst if you want a one cab solution but I would go for the two cab setup the 210 will be loud puchy /low enough for most gigs. I use a high spl 210 for rehearsal and a series 6 130SM (225watts) its f**** loud, compared to a lot of modern amps. AH300 with high spl 210 + 115 / nemesis, eden, berg will be all you ever need. Put it this way if you ever have it above 2, you will go deaf pretty quickly!.

[Mog]

I'm not going to say that TE gear is indestructable but I've never had/seen/heard of one crapping out. I've played 4x10 combos that had a dodgey input gain that wouldn't go past 1 that still kicked out more than enough volume. The only downside of the combo is the weight. Get casters!!!. Honestly, I'd take some of the older TE gear ahead of 90% of other brands new models. Loud and reliable. Very versitle. The next best thing is a SWR Redhead.

[hubrad]

I've got a Trace AH250SMX head which I bought when they first came out so early 90s.. bought it so as not to keep carrying a GP12 preamp and Peavey CS1000 power amp (yes, I know!) Only smidge of trouble ever was lack of strong output from the balanced DI on the back. Phoned TE.. 'Ah, that's because it's not balanced; you need this transformer and you solder it in here'.
Done hundreds of gigs into any cab size from twin 4x10s down to single 1x10, PLENTY LOUD!!!!

[crez5150]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='853245' date='Jun 1 2010, 08:35 AM']It was Gavin at GM audio in Maldon...

Here you go:

GM AUDIO SERVICES LTD
UNIT 5, STOCK CHASE
CM9 4AA MALDON,
ESSEX

Phone: 07919404895[/quote]


I don't think Gavin and GM exist anymore???

Anyway these guys handled all my Trace repairs and I believe now handle most of the new trace repairs also - [url="http://www.electronicmusicservices.co.uk/contact.htm"]EMS[/url]

[holio.cornolio]

but why not a combo. do they shake themselves apart or is it just a weight thing. I reckon a 2 10 or 1 15 would be manageable for the few gigs I do......

[witterth]

[quote name='crez5150' post='853846' date='Jun 1 2010, 05:30 PM']I don't think Gavin and GM exist anymore???

Anyway these guys handled all my Trace repairs and I believe now handle most of the new trace repairs also - [url="http://www.electronicmusicservices.co.uk/contact.htm"]EMS[/url][/quote]
How sad to hear Gavin doest exist anymore I take it you dont mean literally!
thanks for the heads up though good amp techs are like hens teeth in this "disposable" world we live in now
so ta! Crez
W

[hubrad]

[quote name='holio.cornolio' post='853860' date='Jun 1 2010, 05:42 PM']but why not a combo. do they shake themselves apart or is it just a weight thing. I reckon a 2 10 or 1 15 would be manageable for the few gigs I do......[/quote]
For me, it was a flexibility thing.. same amp head but different cabs depending on the gig.

[Mog]

Sorry, missed the bit about your 100 Fender. If its a Rumble 100 its probably as loud as a 150 watt TE head and 1x15 cab. The Rumble is a serious bit of engineering. Love em to bits. Seen them go toe to toe with two guitar half stacks and ring through without issue. If your still too low I'd reckon jumping to 300 watts minimum power. I run a 150 watt Gp-7 Sm with a 4x10 and its just about right IMO.

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='holio.cornolio' post='853860' date='Jun 1 2010, 05:42 PM']but why not a combo. do they shake themselves apart or is it just a weight thing. I reckon a 2 10 or 1 15 would be manageable for the few gigs I do......[/quote]

I have both a 210 and 115 combos with 300W each. Only stack them to get more quality of the sound and only whith one of the heads working (a GP12-X). this way i get the full 300W in a 4ohm load and my volume can't pass 3.5/10 before walls start to fell... (feelss more like a 600-700W amp!).
TE is buildt like a bunker and as a massive sound. I'm trying to ditch my rig just to get something in the lightweight range. Each combo weights arround 50kg (110pd) and my back are starting to complain... I will allways miss that sound though...

[witterth]

[quote name='hubrad' post='853871' date='Jun 1 2010, 05:48 PM']For me, it was a flexibility thing.. same amp head but different cabs depending on the gig.[/quote]
A BIG + 1 with that, good advice! as head/cab thing is allways best. allsorts of 1x15/2x10 (combinations-as opposed to combos) cabs turn up here and are not the "back break" type of thing too!
good luck
W

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='Mog' post='853882' date='Jun 1 2010, 05:56 PM']Sorry, missed the bit about your 100 Fender. If its a Rumble 100 its probably as loud as a 150 watt TE head and 1x15 cab. The Rumble is a serious bit of engineering. Love em to bits. Seen them go toe to toe with two guitar half stacks and ring through without issue. If your still too low I'd reckon jumping to 300 watts minimum power. I run a 150 watt Gp-7 Sm with a 4x10 and its just about right IMO.[/quote]

Remember the fender is 100W but it's cab is 4ohm. The TE has an internal cab at 8ohm and alows a extension... is just putting out near 80W! The full 150W (i thought the combos were 130W and the AH were 150W but i could be wrong...) moves so much air that it could knock the fender to it's back!

[dan670844]

[quote name='holio.cornolio' post='853860' date='Jun 1 2010, 05:42 PM']but why not a combo. do they shake themselves apart or is it just a weight thing. I reckon a 2 10 or 1 15 would be manageable for the few gigs I do......[/quote]


Shake em selves apart hehehe nope built like a nuclear bunker.Go for it, go see Jamie Henry down at John Henrys they have got loads of old combos to shift for 100-150 smackers they weigh 70-85kg and are very top heavy. But if you get casters maybe it won't be so bad. Seriously you can always change the cabs and keep the head! there was a really nice AH300 and a 1518 15" that went on ebay for £250 a couple of weeks back you just have to be lucky!