Cab and Ohm questions for new Trace combo

[cameltoe]

I have just managed to pick up a Trace Elliott GP7 SM combo locally. It's a 150w with a 15" driver. Sounds great! I had been toying with the idea of changing the speaker on my old combo, but I ended up getting this combo for a great price and it seems like new....

Anyway, I really don't know much about amps, cabs, how they work or anything really. I usually just hit random buttons til I get the sound I want.

This combo will be my main workhorse, but for the bigger gigs I have a Hartke vx3500 combo.

As I was reading through the Trace manual online, it mentions something about being able to connect a cab, and doing such increases the power output to 300 watts. I don't really understand the whole Ohms thing, so I don't know if this means the amp will get significantly louder when I connect a cab, or if it will just spread the volume a bit.

The aim of all this, is to find out if I still need the Hartke combo. If, with a cab connected, the Trace will kick out 300 watts (Hartke is 350w) then it'll be fine for the bigger gigs. There are a lot of good cabs on the second hand thread that I could buy, sell my Hartke, and end up with more room in my house and maybe a bit of money in my pocket too.

Apologies for my ignorance

[dan670844]

[quote name='cameltoe' post='853570' date='Jun 1 2010, 02:01 PM']I have just managed to pick up a Trace Elliott GP7 SM combo locally. It's a 150w with a 15" driver. Sounds great! I had been toying with the idea of changing the speaker on my old combo, but I ended up getting this combo for a great price and it seems like new....

Anyway, I really don't know much about amps, cabs, how they work or anything really. I usually just hit random buttons til I get the sound I want.

This combo will be my main workhorse, but for the bigger gigs I have a Hartke vx3500 combo.

As I was reading through the Trace manual online, it mentions something about being able to connect a cab, and doing such increases the power output to 300 watts. I don't really understand the whole Ohms thing, so I don't know if this means the amp will get significantly louder when I connect a cab, or if it will just spread the volume a bit.

The aim of all this, is to find out if I still need the Hartke combo. If, with a cab connected, the Trace will kick out 300 watts (Hartke is 350w) then it'll be fine for the bigger gigs. There are a lot of good cabs on the second hand thread that I could buy, sell my Hartke, and end up with more room in my house and maybe a bit of money in my pocket too.

Apologies for my ignorance [/quote]

I don't know much about the middle period trace stuff. But I would imagine the internal speaker is an 8ohm load, you can check this by looking at the speaker jack it should say something like min load 4 ohm. If it does you can add an additional 8 ohm speaker cab. . Now if you can then you can get rid of the Hartke. Cos a 4 ohm load on a Trace combo (if it can do it) will really wake it up. It will be how can I say............. LOUD!! as normally the ouput is quite attenuated with the internal speaker. The loudness of your setup is really entirely dependant on the surface area of your speakers if you can add another 150watt 15 cab it will be seriously loud or if you are mad a 150watt 1048H (gives a tight punchy sound). The trouble is the old Trace stuff is it flipping heavy, so its hard to move around. 300 watts of old Trace will be way louder than your Hartke!! But you need to get Trace cabs (did i mention they where heavy) from the same period as your combo so it stacks etc and the fact that the drivers are impreganated with Kelvar (not for fun)

[cameltoe]

Yeah! that sounds awesome.

I've seen a 1048H cab for sale here. Tight and punchy is exactly what I'm after.

Not sure what year mine is, it's got 2 front tuning ports and has the red stripes behind the grille.

[Merton]

[quote name='cameltoe' post='853570' date='Jun 1 2010, 02:01 PM']If, with a cab connected, the Trace will kick out 300 watts (Hartke is 350w) then it'll be fine for the bigger gigs.[/quote]
Er, if it's a 150W combo it'll kick out 150W with a cab connected, and about 90W without.

If it's a 300W comobo it'll kick out around 180-200W without a cab, and 300W with.

Nice simple combos these were, always sounded great to my ears

[dan670844]

[quote name='Merton' post='854066' date='Jun 1 2010, 08:25 PM']Er, if it's a 150W combo it'll kick out 150W with a cab connected, and about 90W without.

If it's a 300W comobo it'll kick out around 180-200W without a cab, and 300W with.

Nice simple combos these were, always sounded great to my ears [/quote]

I am not sure about this Trace stuff was a bit odd I think it depends on what model you had. The series 6 410 combo i used to use. Was 150 watt with the internal speaker I.e. the 410 and when you added the 15" lightweight cab hehe it went up to 300watt. It wasnt simply a 4ohm 8 ohm thing there was some attenuation circuit in it. It was done to match the 1048 and 1518 at the time which where 150watts a piece. In any case 150 watts was flippin loud enough. They still have a load of these at the rehearsal studios we go to. They still sound great. But if you even think of moving em you get a hernia!

[dan670844]

[quote name='cameltoe' post='853916' date='Jun 1 2010, 06:19 PM']Yeah! that sounds awesome.

I've seen a 1048H cab for sale here. Tight and punchy is exactly what I'm after.

Not sure what year mine is, it's got 2 front tuning ports and has the red stripes behind the grille.[/quote]

I am not sure either but the right cab will have a red stripe to, however it sounds like an SM to me. To be honest I would go for a 15 they are easier to move, 2 15's will give you some series volume , the 1048's are stupidly heavy, you will soon get peed off moving that around. But but make sure your amp can take a 4ohm load. The commando for example doesn't need / take a extension cab. Are you sure this dude isnt loud enough? are you eq ing it right? i.e if you want loud try leaving everything on the eq below 100hz flat, i.e. don't boost or cut. If you want a fat meaty tone try boosting 100-160hz and 1khz just a little (max a couple of db) leave everything else flat. Now get your guitarist, (if he can lower himself) to play and you stand 10-20 ft away. loud enough? also the input gain is really important not too much not to little. I am not trying to teach suck eggs and all. Our rehearsal studio has a lot of old trace stuff. It always amazes when i see some of the crazy eq settings you see on the amps. The extreme smily face setting, or extreme settings on the eq in general is a no no. People wonder why there amp isnt loud when they cut all their mids out, mids are very important for bass! I post below the a classic mid cut shape that I use with a jazz bass its smooth and centred around 0db cut boost. The 100hz boost gives it a meaty tone, the 500hz gets rid of the boxyness (on the cabs i use) the 1Khz gives bite on a passive bass. Avoid boosting above 3-5Khz esp with an active bass, try it you will see why hisssss!!!!. Hope this helps and I am sorry if I am teaching you to suck eggs, Trace stuff is a little unique!

Cheers

Dan

[dan670844]

[quote name='cameltoe' post='853916' date='Jun 1 2010, 06:19 PM']Yeah! that sounds awesome.

I've seen a 1048H cab for sale here. Tight and punchy is exactly what I'm after.

Not sure what year mine is, it's got 2 front tuning ports and has the red stripes behind the grille.[/quote]

[cameltoe]

[quote name='Merton' post='854066' date='Jun 1 2010, 08:25 PM']Er, if it's a 150W combo it'll kick out 150W with a cab connected, and about 90W without.

If it's a 300W comobo it'll kick out around 180-200W without a cab, and 300W with.

Nice simple combos these were, always sounded great to my ears [/quote]

This is where I'm getting confused.

It says "150 watts RMS"
"300 watts peak"

Speaker output 4 Ohms.

What does this all mean?

Yes, it's loud enough, it will cover nearly all the gigs we do in local pubs, but it wouldn't be loud enough for some of the beer festivals we're doing this year, most of which are in huge marquees with no wall or corner to place my amp in.

I can line out, of course, but our PA has no bass bins so it would probably sound better if I didn't.

It's an SM combo, yes. The front says GP7 SM 150.

At the moment I'm avoiding using the EQ too much, it has the Trace 'shape' button on the front, shape 1 and 2. Apparently shape 1 is the classic trace sound, but it's been a bit muddy so I've been using shape 2 with just a touch of low mid boost.

[Mog]

[quote name='cameltoe' post='854209' date='Jun 1 2010, 09:53 PM']This is where I'm getting confused.

It says "150 watts RMS"
"300 watts peak"

Speaker output 4 Ohms.

What does this all mean?

Yes, it's loud enough, it will cover nearly all the gigs we do in local pubs, but it wouldn't be loud enough for some of the beer festivals we're doing this year, most of which are in huge marquees with no wall or corner to place my amp in.

I can line out, of course, but our PA has no bass bins so it would probably sound better if I didn't.

It's an SM combo, yes. The front says GP7 SM 150.

At the moment I'm avoiding using the EQ too much, it has the Trace 'shape' button on the front, shape 1 and 2. Apparently shape 1 is the classic trace sound, but it's been a bit muddy so I've been using shape 2 with just a touch of low mid boost.[/quote]

I have the head unit. This model always throws up confussion. From what I can tell, with two 8 ohm speakers connected, it still only kicks out 150 watts. Min load of 4ohms probably gives 150 watts. Single 8 ohm cab probably gives 80-100 watts. I've been told that its 150 watts per speaker output. What the yanks refer to as a bi-board system.I e-mailed TE about it but I may as well have been asking our drummer. I've attached a bad phone shot of the back panel of mine. The manual is impossible to find for this range. I'd suggest getting a good 8ohm 4x10 to run with the internal 1x15 and DI to the desk.
[attachment=51164:DSC00028.JPG]

The shape 2 button is suggested for rock tones. Personally I dont use it but our guitard loves the sound it kicks in.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Mog

[Merton]

[quote name='cameltoe' post='854209' date='Jun 1 2010, 09:53 PM']This is where I'm getting confused.

It says "150 watts RMS"
"300 watts peak"

Speaker output 4 Ohms.

What does this all mean?

Yes, it's loud enough, it will cover nearly all the gigs we do in local pubs, but it wouldn't be loud enough for some of the beer festivals we're doing this year, most of which are in huge marquees with no wall or corner to place my amp in.

I can line out, of course, but our PA has no bass bins so it would probably sound better if I didn't.

It's an SM combo, yes. The front says GP7 SM 150.

At the moment I'm avoiding using the EQ too much, it has the Trace 'shape' button on the front, shape 1 and 2. Apparently shape 1 is the classic trace sound, but it's been a bit muddy so I've been using shape 2 with just a touch of low mid boost.[/quote]
It's the RMS figure you should concern yourself with, peak power is nonsense. So you have a 150w combo, which gives about 80 to 100w into the internal driver and with additional 8 ohm cab you'll get the full 300w

[Merton]

[quote name='Mog' post='854403' date='Jun 2 2010, 02:45 AM']I have the head unit. This model always throws up confussion. From what I can tell, with two 8 ohm speakers connected, it still only kicks out 150 watts. Min load of 4ohms probably gives 150 watts. Single 8 ohm cab probably gives 80-100 watts. I've been told that its 150 watts per speaker output. What the yanks refer to as a bi-board system.I e-mailed TE about it but I may as well have been asking our drummer. I've attached a bad phone shot of the back panel of mine. The manual is impossible to find for this range. I'd suggest getting a good 8ohm 4x10 to run with the internal 1x15 and DI to the desk.
[attachment=51164:DSC00028.JPG]

The shape 2 button is suggested for rock tones. Personally I dont use it but our guitard loves the sound it kicks in.[/quote]
The bi-board thing doesn't apply to this, that is for the stereo heads only like the smx600 head

[dan670844]

[quote name='cameltoe' post='854209' date='Jun 1 2010, 09:53 PM']This is where I'm getting confused.

It says "150 watts RMS"
"300 watts peak"

Speaker output 4 Ohms.

What does this all mean?

Yes, it's loud enough, it will cover nearly all the gigs we do in local pubs, but it wouldn't be loud enough for some of the beer festivals we're doing this year, most of which are in huge marquees with no wall or corner to place my amp in.

I can line out, of course, but our PA has no bass bins so it would probably sound better if I didn't.

It's an SM combo, yes. The front says GP7 SM 150.

At the moment I'm avoiding using the EQ too much, it has the Trace 'shape' button on the front, shape 1 and 2. Apparently shape 1 is the classic trace sound, but it's been a bit muddy so I've been using shape 2 with just a touch of low mid boost.

Dude don't worry I think the consensus is that if you get a red stripe 1518 i.e a 15" to go on the bottom it will be loud enough! The more surface area of speakers you have the louder you will be and the 1518 is not too heavy. The 410 instead of, would also be good but it is heavy, up to you. People in the 60's and 70's made do with 30 50 or max 100 watts to do gigs, they just had a lot of high sensitivity speakers

But make sure they are the red stripe speakers i.e. series 6 they will have the right SPL and sensitivity to get the most out of the watts you put in. If you are stuck give John Henrys a call they have loads of ex hire gear in good condition.


You have[/quote]

[cameltoe]

[quote name='Merton' post='854410' date='Jun 2 2010, 06:46 AM']It's the RMS figure you should concern yourself with, peak power is nonsense. So you have a 150w combo, which gives about 80 to 100w into the internal driver and with additional 8 ohm cab you'll get the full 300w [/quote]

Should I be using an 8 Ohm cab or a 4 Ohm cab? It says 'speaker output 4 Ohms'

I might connect up the 4x10 Hartke drivers from my combo just to see what it can do, but I don't want to blow anything up by connecting the wrong Ohm cab

[dan670844]

[quote name='cameltoe' post='854882' date='Jun 2 2010, 02:22 PM']Should I be using an 8 Ohm cab or a 4 Ohm cab? It says 'speaker output 4 Ohms'

I might connect up the 4x10 Hartke drivers from my combo just to see what it can do, but I don't want to blow anything up by connecting the wrong Ohm cab[/quote]


I would assume that the internal driver is 8 ohms in which case you can connect another 8 ohm cab this will give you 4 ohms and max output. sometimes combos have a 4 ohm speaker already fitted so you cant add another cab. If your Trace combo has two outputs for speakers on the back then you can put 8ohm cab on it. I would be careful connecting the speakers from the Hartke as it might be a 4ohm cab already, in which case..............bang. Better of getting an old 1518 trace cab me thinks

[cameltoe]

[quote name='dan670844' post='854942' date='Jun 2 2010, 02:52 PM']I would assume that the internal driver is 8 ohms in which case you can connect another 8 ohm cab this will give you 4 ohms and max output. sometimes combos have a 4 ohm speaker already fitted so you cant add another cab. If your Trace combo has two outputs for speakers on the back then you can put 8ohm cab on it. I would be careful connecting the speakers from the Hartke as it might be a 4ohm cab already, in which case..............bang. Better of getting an old 1518 trace cab me thinks[/quote]


It says speaker output 4 ohms on the Hartke too, if this makes a difference. I have an old Ampeg 1x15 combo which i think might be the same Ohmage. I just want to see what kind of noise it kicks out with extra speakers, to see if it's worthwile biuying a cab.