Lindley Marthe with Zawinul

[JamieBenzies]

[quote name='urb' post='862319' date='Jun 9 2010, 04:44 PM']Personally I can hear the difference between Linley and Jaco - the latter's tone and touch is so distinctive and Linley plays if anything with more aggression - Jaco was more laid back even when he played fast - and for the record as soon as any bassist switches on their bridge pup and plays muted 16th notes they are 'accused' of sounding like Jaco... it's damn hard not to. It's another part of the language of bass playing that he helped pioneer - but hey if you don't want to use it, don't use it.[/quote]

Couldn't agree with that post more.

[Bilbo]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='862151' date='Jun 9 2010, 02:52 PM']Do horn players search for a unique sound to avoid sounding like Charlie Parker?

Even jazz guitarists tend to stick to a limited number of sounds... archtop, neck pup, flats, tone down, clean amp. They don't attract a great deal of criticism for going for the Wes Montgomery, etc. sound.

Why should electric bassists be different?[/quote]

If a horn player sounds derivative, of Parker, Coltrane, Brecker or anyone else for that metter, then they will be subjected to censure. The subtleties of jazz guitar sounds are also subject to scrutiny and anyone who 'sounds like' Wes would be criticised for it (although there is more tolerance for 'neo-classicism' in jazz nowadays, hard core critics and fans alike are looking for new and fresh perspectives not 'classic' sounds). There are always influential players, composers and arrangers etc but being a clone in any of these areas is as unwelcome as being a Jaco clone is in bass circles.

In truth, there is a subtle difference between what is a 'generic' sound e.g. a double bass vs. an electric one and what is a personal sound e.g. Charlie Haden's sound, or Ron Carer's or Marc Johnson's or Dave Holland's etc. The question is, what elements of Jaco's 'thing' have found their way into generic electric bass playing and how much of that can a player incorporate into their own playing before they are criticised for being a clone. It has to be a personal thing but, for me, those who obsess over the details in one person's playing are fantasists who need to move on and realise their own potential as an individual musician. You know someone is in trouble when they start to [i]dress[/i] like their influences

As Steve Swallow says: 'in order to become a real player, you need to eat your father' i.e. digest your influences and them spit them out and move on. I hear infuences in Marthe but he is no clone.

[Faithless]

It's another theme about saxophonists..

In our area, I simply can't listen to any of them (esp students from local academy), cuz they're all trying to sound either like Parker or Coltrane.

All the solos they analise in school, is either Omnibook, or some Coltrane stuff, all the solos they transcribe is either Charlie or Johnny's stuff - and don't try to tell 'em to transcribe.bassplayers, pianists, guitarists, it's a sin..

In fact, most of them wouldn't tell more saxophonist 'names', than those two cats.. Isn't that a shame?

But then again, most of them are young people, maybe they will find their sound, without the help of Parker..

Other case is.. Can you listen to Kenny Garrett? I can't more than 5 minutes. A complete Coltrane clone IMHO. Well, some tell that he's 'exploring' Coltrane's stuff and ideas, but, for me, that's just a lame excuse for a shameless copy..

[urb]

[quote name='Faithless' post='866974' date='Jun 14 2010, 01:01 PM']It's another theme about saxophonists..

In our area, I simply can't listen to any of them (esp students from local academy), cuz they're all trying to sound either like Parker or Coltrane.

All the solos they analise in school, is either Omnibook, or some Coltrane stuff, all the solos they transcribe is either Charlie or Johnny's stuff - and don't try to tell 'em to transcribe.bassplayers, pianists, guitarists, it's a sin..

In fact, most of them wouldn't tell more saxophonist 'names', than those two cats.. Isn't that a shame?

But then again, most of them are young people, maybe they will find their sound, without the help of Parker..

Other case is.. Can you listen to Kenny Garrett? I can't more than 5 minutes. A complete Coltrane clone IMHO. Well, some tell that he's 'exploring' Coltrane's stuff and ideas, but, for me, that's just a lame excuse for a shameless copy..[/quote]

I agree with some of what you are saying there - it's true to say that a lot of lesser sax players, or rather younger, less experienced ones (like any musician on any instrument) will go through phases of sounding like the greats - but in defense of Garrett, while I can't speak too much for his albums as I haven't listened to many of them - I saw him live with John Mclaughlin and Chick Corea (with Christian McBride and Vinnie Colaiuta) and his solo spot where he duelled with Vinnie for the best part of five minutes was utterly, utterly amazing... he tore the roof off the Festival Hall - he sounded like no one but himself... astonishing playing. I'd ask you whether you've actually heard him live at the height of his powers? If so then fine - but I was blown away by the power of his playing - and for the record the impactful parts of his solo were single sustained notes that just built the tension up to breaking point... again using the word 'clone' is very dismissive of his playing - trying to play jazz is a very humbling experience - it take vast amounts of skill to get anywhere near his level - I'm not saying you have to like him, or any one else - just have a little, tiny bit of respect.... or don't - it's your view - but it certainly ain't mine.

One last thing - as Christain McBride very widely said: "Sax players have to 'go through' Charlie Parker... bass players have to 'go through' Pastorius" - it's all part of the history of our instrument - take it or leave it.

[Faithless]

Yep, I've seen him live, with the very same band..

Maybe I was a little too harsh about him, but you got my point..