Random bass lines.

[TimR]

Saw a function band the other day.

The drummer wasn't particularly tight and the bass player wasn't locked in at all. In fact in most of the tunes he played the original bass line for the first verse and chorus then wandered off and appeared to be soloing for the rest of the tune.

Fair enough this might work in some situations, but it was a 7 piece band. I found it impossible to dance, and gave up for a fair number of tunes.

At one stage he was playing a recognisable solo from a completely different tune as the bass line to the verse.

Does anyone else in a function/covers band spend their entire gig trying to be clever and what do the rest of the band think?
Anyone else seen this happen and agree/disagree that its a bad thing to do?
Is it just me because I'm a bass player expecting to hear the proper bass line?
You wouldn't expect the vocalist to sing different words or is that different in some way?
Do I ask too many questions and should I just worry about my own band?

[rOB]

I've been thinking about this very topic recently as I've just joined a covers band for the first time and would be really interested on people's opinions on this.

Lets be honest, on the majority of songs, the average punter probably wouldn't notice a different bassline as long as it fits with the song.

[NAS]

I have quite enough challenge trying to make my playing match the original without adding or changing anything. Most usually my part ends up being a slightly bastardised version of the original with personal fixes to cover the bits I can't seem to get right, either because I can't hear properly on the original or because I haven't the skill to reproduce it properly. That said, if I hear something in my head that seems to "improve" the band version I might be tempted! Of course a talented player might find a lot to "improve".

[rOB]

[quote name='NAS' post='858964' date='Jun 6 2010, 03:48 PM']Most usually my part ends up being a slightly bastardised version of the original with personal fixes to cover the bits I can't seem to get right[/quote]

That's what I'm ending up with at the moment. We're playing a few motown tunes and I just can't play well enough to replicate the lines!

[OldGit]

The only thing that really matters is if the dance floor was full.
If you were the only one put off by this then he's probably doing an OK job.

The orginal line that works great for a record/on the radio may not always be the best way to play it live..

Check out how things vary between the records and live versions by the orginal band and you'll see what I mean (gawd bless you, youtoob)

[Bloodaxe]

I'm broadly with NAS on this one, but I'll add in the "laziness" factor.

If the tune has a signature lick/riff/line that [i]has[/i] to be there, I'll endeavour to nail it - e.g. Spencer Davis' "Gimme Some Lovin'", Whitesnake's "Fool For Your Loving" or Little Feat's "Let It Roll". Improvise over those & there's a very good chance of destroying the character completely.

Mostly I just nail the changes & then join the dots how I see fit. It keeps it fun for me, & can (in some instances) enhance the original.

Sometimes improv is compulsory... A lot of Jack Bruce/Cream stuff for instance - Politician gets dull really quickly if you just cycle the riff. "Dancing in The Moonlight" & "Comfortably Numb" have potential for stretching out a bit too.

From the OP's description though, that's a bit too far IMO - sounds like a case of "that'll do".

They got any YouTube footage TimR?

Pete.

[spike]

I don't see anything wrong with changing the bass line if you want to but if you get too busy you risk losing the groove of the song.

I often simplify the bass line compared to the recording because the subtleties you hear on the recording will often be lost in a live situation.

In a large band like the OP mentioned the idea is to listen to and interlock with the other band members, not to play loads of notes.

PS. I agree with what Bloodaxe says about not changing the signature bits.

Edited June 6, 2010 by spike

[TimR]

[quote name='spike' post='859052' date='Jun 6 2010, 05:11 PM']I don't see anything wrong with changing the bass line if you want to but if you get too busy you risk losing the groove of the song.

I often simplify the bass line compared to the recording because the subtleties you hear on the recording will often be lost in a live situation.

In a large band like the OP mentioned the idea is to listen to and interlock with the other band members, not to play loads of notes.

PS. I agree with what Bloodaxe says about not changing the signature bits.[/quote]

This is exactly where I'm coming from. He had no problem playing the original line. He did that for the first verse and chorus and it sounded good, but it was almost like he was bored of playing it and wanted to show off his shredding skills. After the first chorus the songs lost all groove, he never really played much below the middle E for longer than a bar and the drummer didn't lay down anything solid either.

I come from the school where in pop, disco and funk, the bass and drums provide the force behind the band, driving it all. The only real driving force was the snare.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

Perhaps he was a guitarist standing in for the proper bass player

[Spike Vincent]

They weren't a free form jazz band,by any chance?There'as always scope for a little personalisation,but if you're being paid to play someone else's stuff,then that's what you do.

[Delberthot]

If the bassline is instantly recognisable then I will play it exactly like it should be played, ditto if I think that a bassline is so good that to change it would ruin the song.

The song should still sound like the original but if the original was bland then I will add what I think will improve it - Daydream Believer by the Monkeys which we still get asked for is an example where it is really dull and boring so we pep it up a bit to give it more impact.

I normally focus improvs at parts where there isn't reallything happening as regards vocals or guitar solos etc.

That said I do a slap bass bit at the drum break of Do You Love Me by the Contours

It is easy to get carried away sometimes as the drummer and I have been playing in bands for years and he is very talented.

9 times out of 10 the audience won't notice as long as it isn't completely noticable that the song sounds terrible due to someone playing utter garbage

[rmshaw37]

[quote name='Spike Vincent' post='859228' date='Jun 6 2010, 07:59 PM']They weren't a free form jazz band,by any chance?There'as always scope for a little personalisation,but if you're being paid to play someone else's stuff,then that's what you do.[/quote]


i agree totally, if you're playing your own songs, then do what you want!

if you're a function band and getting paid to play covers, cover it, don't get cocky! they arent there to see you, play the songs you're gettin paid to play!!

as musicians we recognise talent, as punters, we want to hear the song as written, thats why they are famouas tunes, and most of us aren't!

sorry for the rant, but no one really had this opinion yet!

[silentbob]

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='859211' date='Jun 6 2010, 07:49 PM']Perhaps he was a guitarist standing in for the proper bass player [/quote]

[Prime_BASS]

IMO

Tribute band should play it pretty close to the original.
Covers band(songs from various artists) should sound pretty close to the original put no harm in making it your own.
Originals band doing covers, either do it original or do it better than the original by making it your own.

For me, if the song requires finger style over pick, and makes the difference I'll do it, but 95% of the time I'll play it my way and it'll sound like me.

[thepurpleblob]

I have played in covers bands for years and years. I go to a reasonable amount of trouble to get the line as close as I can. The only time when I deliberately diverge from the original is when I don't have the skill to play it. I think it's actually a challenge in itself because you are constantly being dragged out of your comfort zone. If I'd just made something up myself I would never have got beyond playing root-fifth-octave for everything.

[El Bajo]

I aim to get down the progression and any major riffs which is probably 95% of the tune. Inserting the odd fill and walk up won't do any harm and will probably improve the song in some situations. Some songs I learn I think why the hell didnt the original player whack in a tasty bass fill there!

One thing I do see in cover bands is that drummers are the worst for playing the drum pattern there own way. Probably stems from the fact that many probably don't get to practice that often due to the impracticalities of the instrument, in that case it may be be necessary to change the bass line to match the drums.

Sweet Child o Mine appeared on the forum a couple of weeks ago. Thats a good example of making/improvising the tune to make your own. A player could learn every note that Duff plays but I prefer to learn the original then tear up the sheet music and just play it. My memory usually keeps most of Duffs fills then I add a few of my own whenever it feels appropriate. it also means I don't have to worry about messing up the song and beating myself up about it due to being worried about the tiniest variations.

Edited June 7, 2010 by El Bajo

[Colledge]

this thread has made me feel a lot better about my playing.
the band i'm is is working on a lot of original material but in the mean time were doing a few covers too and i in nearly all of them i like / have to personalise them a bit with my personal style and techniques. however i never get over the top and solo everywhere. the way i see it is as long as you keep the low end locked in and keep the vibe going then the odd different fill there and a few variations are all just your added touch.

[Zombywoof]

Maybe the reason the bassist in the OP gets busy is coz the drummer he's working with is not supplying a decent foundation. There's nothing like having a good drummer to give you the confidence to just lay down the line and groove it out.

[OldGit]

[quote name='El Bajo' post='859995' date='Jun 7 2010, 03:36 PM']One thing I do see in cover bands is that drummers are the worst for playing the drum pattern their own way.[/quote]

+1
Check out the incorrect bass drum work by this guy in this covers band
It spoils it for me especially as the rest of the band are doing a pretty good job of recreating the original

Edited June 7, 2010 by OldGit

[spinynorman]

The more recent a song is, the less opportunity I find for changing the bassline. Anything by ColdGreenRazorPatrol, just a waste of time trying. But with older stuff we're often doing a cover of a cover anyway, like Johnny Winter's Jumping Jack Flash, or there's 15 live versions, which are all different, so there's more scope.

There's a live version of Gimme Some Lovin' by Traffic, which has a reggae feel and the bass riff is heavily disguised, though the organ part is still recognisable. It does sound like they're all stoned and it lasts 9 minutes, so probably not an option for a function band, but it is possible.

Edited June 7, 2010 by spinynorman

[TimR]

Well I saw the singer of the band yesterday. He said some of the tunes were impossible to pitch because there was nothing coming from the bass. He's going to have (another! ) word.

It wasn't just me then.

[mep]

[quote name='spinynorman' post='860114' date='Jun 7 2010, 05:32 PM']The more recent a song is, the less opportunity I find for changing the bassline. Anything by ColdGreenRazorPatrol, just a waste of time trying. But with older stuff we're often doing a cover of a cover anyway, like Johnny Winter's Jumping Jack Flash, or there's 15 live versions, which are all different, so there's more scope.[/quote]

+1 on this. We do a lot of covers of covers in our band, especially punk covers. Build me up buttercup, Your'e so vain, 99 red ballons, kids in america, footloose & wonderful world are not the original versions. We have done our own version of Mama Mia (3 piece with no keys), although I had to keep to the original bassline to keep the feel and make sure the ladies dance along.

[HeavyJay]

It can go either way for me, sometimes I embellish, sometimes I simplify.

I'm in a three piece band so if we're covering songs done by bands with more members, all three of us sometimes have to make it a bit busier to fill the gaps. Having said that, we all sing as well so we sometimes have to simplify our playing a bit in parts too.

There's also the "I'll show off a little" factor which leads to embellishment (not too much though ) and when you want to get a song in the set quickly you start with a simplified bassline before gradually building up to the "proper one" the more you play it.

The questions you ask are:
[list]
[*]Do the punters recognise it as the tune you intended for the [b]Sing A Long[/b][sup]TM[/sup] that they're there for?
[*]Is the dancefloor full?
[/list]
The the answer to both is yes, no worries.

[OldGit]

[quote name='mep' post='861547' date='Jun 8 2010, 09:53 PM']+1 on this. We do a lot of covers of covers in our band, especially punk covers. Build me up buttercup, Your'e so vain, 99 red ballons, kids in america, footloose & wonderful world are not the original versions. We have done our own version of Mama Mia (3 piece with no keys), although I had to keep to the original bassline to keep the feel and make sure the ladies dance along.[/quote]


Love your version of You're So Vain