Mikey R Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Spoombung' post='863098' date='Jun 10 2010, 11:30 AM']Mikey - Maybe this would be better as it's acrylic anyway, and is bound to accept acrylic paint on top? [/quote] The problem there is that when pore filling, you would typically cover the body then sand right back down to bare wood, only leaving the product in the pores. Maybe you'd then leave the final coat of sealer on the surface as a base for the top coats. This is where shellac wins over acrylic - each layer of acrylic goes on like a layer of cling film. It sticks to the previous layer but doesnt become one with it. If you sand through, you'll get white lines like a contour map of where youve over sanded. Not a problem with shellac as it burns in, so theres no lines. [quote name='Spoombung' post='863098' date='Jun 10 2010, 11:30 AM']There is also cellulose version : (I'm not sure what cellulose is or if I could paint on top with waterbased acylic) Here is the product comparison: [url="http://www.axminster.co.uk/compare_products.asp"]http://www.axminster.co.uk/compare_products.asp[/url]?[/quote] I dont know anything about cellulose, but I cant see that it would be a better choice than shellac or acrylic. Maybe if I was using a nitro top coat, then maybe it would burn in, but Im unlikely to ever use nitrocellulose. It comes in a metal can, so maybe it eats away plastic? Personnaly, I wouldnt want to use it when theres spirit or water based alternatives. Are the pores really that big? The photo you showed doesnt look like ash. Edited June 10, 2010 by Mikey R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted June 10, 2010 Author Share Posted June 10, 2010 okay...I'm still not sure whether acrylic paint will adhere to shellac. Can you go over acrylic with shellac? (like a lacquer) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey R Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 [quote name='Spoombung' post='863326' date='Jun 10 2010, 02:46 PM']okay...I'm still not sure whether acrylic paint will adhere to shellac. Can you go over acrylic with shellac? (like a lacquer)[/quote] Im pretty sure that anything will go over shellac, but Ive just emailed Chestnut Finishes to get them to confim - I'll post here when they get back to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted June 10, 2010 Author Share Posted June 10, 2010 [quote name='Mikey R' post='863331' date='Jun 10 2010, 02:53 PM']Im pretty sure that anything will go over shellac, but Ive just emailed Chestnut Finishes to get them to confim - I'll post here when they get back to me.[/quote] thanks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skelf Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Why don't you try posting on this forum. [url="http://mimf.com/cgi-bin/WebX"]MIMF[/url] There is a glues and finishes section. They are very helpful and I am sure someone there will have painted a bass they way you want to. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey R Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 ok, Chestnut got back to me: [quote]Hi Mike I'm afraid it's impossible tor us to give definitive advice about mixing other people's products with our own as our knowledge of them is limited. I would however expect artist paints to adhere to our Shellac Sanding Sealer. However, we would not recommend using Acrylic Lacquer on top of Shellac Sanding Sealer, we would instead recommend our Acrylic Sanding Sealer. This should also be okay with the artists paints but we would suggest a trial piece first. I hope this is of some help Best regards Terry Smart Chestnut Products[/quote] A bit of a surprise there for me - I thought shellac would make a good base for anything. Anyway, hope that helps. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted June 10, 2010 Author Share Posted June 10, 2010 [quote name='Mikey R' post='863370' date='Jun 10 2010, 03:30 PM']ok, Chestnut got back to me: A bit of a surprise there for me - I thought shellac would make a good base for anything. Anyway, hope that helps. Mike[/quote] Okay, that's helpful. It looks like we're getting some answers at last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted June 10, 2010 Author Share Posted June 10, 2010 [quote name='skelf' post='863364' date='Jun 10 2010, 03:25 PM']Why don't you try posting on this forum. [url="http://mimf.com/cgi-bin/WebX"]MIMF[/url] There is a glues and finishes section. They are very helpful and I am sure someone there will have painted a bass they way you want to. Alan[/quote] Crikey that's a weird looking forum. It look as old as the internet. I will try.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted June 12, 2010 Author Share Posted June 12, 2010 [quote name='skelf' post='863364' date='Jun 10 2010, 03:25 PM']Why don't you try posting on this forum. [url="http://mimf.com/cgi-bin/WebX"]MIMF[/url] There is a glues and finishes section. They are very helpful and I am sure someone there will have painted a bass they way you want to. Alan[/quote] Zero response. That place is dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted June 18, 2010 Author Share Posted June 18, 2010 Well I settled for the acyrlic sealer in the end and this is the bass after about 4 coats. The stuff is surprisingly soft and sands very easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted June 18, 2010 Author Share Posted June 18, 2010 Here's a test piece of wood that I also primed with the same stuff and I'm trying out some acrylic paint on it first: I must say that I'm not at all convinced this is going to look good and I'm also worried that the acrylic lacquer will not seal it well. Acrylic paints tend to dry lumpy and I've tried to minimize this by sanding down slightly although this has thinned them out somewhat. I might have to look for some other type of paint. I'm amazed I can't find any information on this subject anywhere. The Talkbass forum drew an absolute blank, Alan's weird (and very dead forum) didn't know and Google knows nothing. No one has a clue even though I would have thought there's loads of people out there who have attempted painting their own guitars before the year 2010! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodaxe Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 [quote name='Spoombung' post='870844' date='Jun 18 2010, 02:56 PM']I must say that I'm not at all convinced this is going to look good and I'm also worried that the acrylic lacquer will not seal it well. [b]Acrylic paints tend to dry lumpy[/b] and I've tried to minimize this by sanding down slightly although this has thinned them out somewhat. I might have to look for some other type of paint. I'm amazed I can't find any information on this subject anywhere. The Talkbass forum drew an absolute blank, Alan's weird (and very dead forum) didn't know and Google knows nothing. No one has a clue even though I would have thought there's loads of people out there who have attempted painting their own guitars before the year 2010! [/quote] If you're using Artist's Acrylics inna tube, they don't flow out & can look like you've put them on with a fork - thinning them a little more & adding a drop of washing-up liquid can persuade them to flow a little better, but they're not really intended for that. A sympathetic undercoat would help with coverage, too. Instead, these might be worth a shot: [url="http://www.goldenpaints.com/products/color/fluid/fldcht1.php"]http://www.goldenpaints.com/products/color/fluid/fldcht1.php[/url] from one of these: [url="http://www.goldenpaints.com/storelist/results_open.php?location=&city=london&state=%25&zip=&country=11"]http://www.goldenpaints.com/storelist/resu...&country=11[/url] I've not used them, so can't vouch for their fluidity and covering power. The alternative is to have a crack at airbrushing - if you've got a local model/toy or artists supply shop, they may well have a very basic airbrush kit for reasonable money. Where in S. London are you? Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted June 18, 2010 Author Share Posted June 18, 2010 [quote name='Bloodaxe' post='870887' date='Jun 18 2010, 03:51 PM']Where in S. London are you? Pete.[/quote] Thanks for the info; I'll check it all out. I'm just down the road from you in Greenwich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodaxe Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 [quote name='Spoombung' post='870939' date='Jun 18 2010, 05:14 PM']Thanks for the info; I'll check it all out. I'm just down the road from you in Greenwich.[/quote] Aha! If the experimentation doesn't pan out (it might not tbh - artist's acrylics are nigh-on useless for signwriting & I've had nightmares attempting to get acrylic gold size to behave), you're quite welcome to borrow the budget airbrush I've got knocking around somewhere. El-cheapo Badger very basic type - good for model making, signwriting effects & artwork backgrounds but fairly rubbish at close-quarter detailing. Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumnote Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 have a look here [url="http://www.reranch.com/"]http://www.reranch.com/[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted June 19, 2010 Author Share Posted June 19, 2010 [quote name='bumnote' post='871102' date='Jun 18 2010, 08:28 PM']have a look here [url="http://www.reranch.com/"]http://www.reranch.com/[/url][/quote] The forum looks interesting but as it's American all the products will incur extra duty when dispatched to the UK so I'm going to look for somewhere closer to home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted June 19, 2010 Author Share Posted June 19, 2010 [quote name='Bloodaxe' post='871042' date='Jun 18 2010, 06:52 PM']Aha! If the experimentation doesn't pan out (it might not tbh - artist's acrylics are nigh-on useless for signwriting & I've had nightmares attempting to get acrylic gold size to behave), you're quite welcome to borrow the budget airbrush I've got knocking around somewhere. Pete.[/quote] Okay, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumnote Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 [quote name='Spoombung' post='871603' date='Jun 19 2010, 11:16 AM']The forum looks interesting but as it's American all the products will incur extra duty when dispatched to the UK so I'm going to look for somewhere closer to home[/quote] [url="http://www.manchesterguitartech.co.uk/lacquer.html"]http://www.manchesterguitartech.co.uk/lacquer.html[/url] Stockist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted June 19, 2010 Author Share Posted June 19, 2010 [quote name='bumnote' post='871804' date='Jun 19 2010, 03:31 PM'][url="http://www.manchesterguitartech.co.uk/lacquer.html"]http://www.manchesterguitartech.co.uk/lacquer.html[/url] Stockist[/quote] Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumnote Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 [quote name='Spoombung' post='871966' date='Jun 19 2010, 05:57 PM']Thanks[/quote] i think the interesting thing about both of these sites is the advice on how to do things, I refinished a precision type using the manchester guitar site and it came out well. i think i would have used cellulose grain filler with hindsight or pva to prepare the wood. the biggest problem i had, even using grain filler was sinkage into the wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted June 20, 2010 Author Share Posted June 20, 2010 [quote name='bumnote' post='872512' date='Jun 20 2010, 12:01 PM']i think the interesting thing about both of these sites is the advice on how to do things, I refinished a precision type using the manchester guitar site and it came out well. i think i would have used cellulose grain filler with hindsight or pva to prepare the wood. the biggest problem i had, even using grain filler was sinkage into the wood.[/quote] Well if I use the nitro cans on the that site I'm not sure they'll sit on the acrylic sealer now - I'd wish I'd seen it before. I emailed the guy and he wasn't sure if it would work, either. I'm now scratching my head as to what to do. I'm thinking solid colour now - a light blue or pink. There don't seem to be many acrylic spray colours around. The wood isn't pretty at all. Any other ideas welcome.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodaxe Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 [quote name='Spoombung' post='872562' date='Jun 20 2010, 01:05 PM']Well if I use the nitro cans on the that site I'm not sure they'll sit on the acrylic sealer now - I'd wish I'd seen it before. I emailed the guy and he wasn't sure if it would work, either. I'm now scratching my head as to what to do. I'm thinking solid colour now - a light blue or pink. There don't seem to be many acrylic spray colours around. The wood isn't pretty at all. Any other ideas welcome....[/quote] Prep another test board with the primer & hight ye unto Halfords. Pretty much all of their rattle cans are an "acrylic formulation", it's the solvent I'm not sure of - that [i]might[/i] attack the primer, but there's only one way to be certain. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted June 20, 2010 Author Share Posted June 20, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Bloodaxe' post='872569' date='Jun 20 2010, 01:15 PM']Prep another test board with the primer & hight ye unto Halfords. Pretty much all of their rattle cans are an "acrylic formulation", it's the solvent I'm not sure of - that [i]might[/i] attack the primer, but there's only one way to be certain. P.[/quote] When you say 'primer' do you mean the acrylic sealant? Edited June 20, 2010 by Spoombung Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodaxe Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 [quote name='Spoombung' post='872591' date='Jun 20 2010, 01:59 PM']When you say 'primer' do you mean the acrylic sealant?[/quote] Sorry, yes, exactly. Rightly or wrongly, I call any coating that lives between the substrate & under/topcoats a "primer" - even if it's a brush-applied clear coat, the first coat or two of thinned varnish is the primer in my book. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted June 20, 2010 Author Share Posted June 20, 2010 I thought I'd give it a go so I went down to Halfords and bought a can of Ford Bermuda Light Blue for £5.99 so stay tuned.... Just out of curiousity I Googled 'Ford Bermuda Blue' and it lead straight to a [url="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://freespace.virgin.net/mark.williams/backblue.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D575612&usg=__fn5S1sz9G-isV8fjcTpIl7urRfI=&h=1752&w=1168&sz=298&hl=en&start=1&sig2=vXBRY4bdZgQnUtVHQbNv5A&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=03-PAOACSY308M:&tbnh=150&tbnw=100&prev=/images%3Fq%3DFord%2BBermuda%2BLight%2BBlue%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=STceTPWAGseTsgbG2OSLBg"]build thread[/url] on a guitar forum. The guy is using Halfords spray paints too. Seems the only obstacle is the long drying times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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