Lending Gear at gigs

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Sarah5string' post='860105' date='Jun 7 2010, 05:24 PM']One option would be to get insurance which would cover you for accidental damage...[/quote]
Possibly, but I'd check any policy very, very carefully for exclusions concerning wear-and-tear and lending/hiring, even for no reward.

[51m0n]

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='860048' date='Jun 7 2010, 04:27 PM']Agree 100%. There are numerous reasons why a band may not have all the gear they might want, or may not be able to bring it, and its incredibly elitist IMO to suggest that they should all stay in their bedrooms until they can get both a gig-worthy amp and a car to put it in. If you don't want to lend your kit, that's fine, and that's your prerogative, but sweeping assumptions like that are frankly insulting.[/quote]


Go on then list me "numerous reasons" why a band might not have a ~150w Peavey 115 TNT combo off ebay??

They go for about £100!!

They are enough (if you learn how to eq) to get heard on a stage, they will be DI'ed. I know, I've used them many times as an onstage monitor. It isnt a nice sound, it doesnt look pretty,m there are no flashing lights, and it will not ever sound 'great' but it will do the job (just). If thats all you can afford then tough.

Its not "incredibly elitist" to expect people to bring the tools they need to do the job they intend to do. Its common sense.

It is however incredibly thoughtless (to the point of either mindless ignorance or supreme arrogance) to presuppose that you will be allowed to use someone else rig (be it a similar combo or several grands worth of kit) because you haven't even sorted out the bare minimum essentials required to actually be gigging.

Worse yet to tell someone that they will have to lend their gear to someone else that they dont know from adam and accept all the associated risks.

I insure my gear, in case its stolen or breaks whilst I am using it. If that were to happen I would still be out of pocket by a significant amount as a result of the way insurance works, not to mention the time taken to get replacement kit. So it doesnt mean I am willing to, or would advocate ayone else, lending their kit.

You do so at your own risk, and all those who are lending away like happy bunnies will be happy until the day comes that a couple of grands worth of their kit gets busted by one of a group of people borrowing it on the night, none of whom has the honesty to own up to what they've done. At which point you will change your mind. Or you are a fool. I couldnt really care which, cos I'll still be able to play through my rig beacause I didnt lend it to some git who should have brought his own kit.

[fingerz]

Yeh 51m0n - I remember working my ass off for an amp when I started gigging. It wasn't my amp of choice, but loud enough to play with a drum kit. Bad karma if you go and do gigs and don't own your own gear to do so! Do these people even exist??!!

[OldGit]

I suspect in the middle of this is a promoter who's managed to get one of the bands to let everyone use their gear on his gigs for many years so he's not looking to change that.
He's probably telling all the other bands that a backline will be provided and he'd prefer it if they didn't bring their own as it takes longer to change bands over and clutters up the venue.

It's always worked out for him 'cos no one playing this kind of gig has the clout to say no and risk loosing that gig and future gigs.

There are best practices like asking nicely, getting the bands to discuss and co-ordinate things beforehand and I'm sure that if we were putting on the gig that would happen.
However in reality this kind of situation will carry on...

[umph]

first gig i played lent my amp to the other bands, they turned everything on full and wrecked it, then complained to me about how it was crap!

Don't lend gear out anymore unless they're nice about it or has been agreed before hand. My current rig is fairly bullet proof - great thing about valve amps, they don't explode when you crank them!

[barneyg42]

[quote name='Dave Vader' post='860035' date='Jun 7 2010, 04:12 PM']Mate of mine back in Bideford has to lend his Bass amp to Norman Watt-Roy every time they support Wilco Johnson, I'll be honest, he's quite chuffed about it. [/quote]

Strangely enough a band I was in supported Wilco Johnson and NW-R wouldn't let me use his rig, didn't grumble though, he was a nice chap and I had a good chat with him and some photos etc!

OP, to not upset anyone perhaps you could tell the promoter that your gear is in the repair shop and would not be ready in time, it might force him to hire some gear in if the other bands don't have their own kit. I can understand if you want to use your own kit though.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='barneyg42' post='860170' date='Jun 7 2010, 06:34 PM']OP, to not upset anyone perhaps you could tell the promoter that your gear is in the repair shop . . .[/quote]

Yeah, being fixed from the last time it was lent out.

[essexbasscat]

[quote name='urbanx' post='859745' date='Jun 7 2010, 12:29 PM']Hey,
I know this has been bought up before, but it’s a re-occurring problem.
We have a gig on Sunday, four bands, we’re on third. I’ve been asked to bring all my gear to share, because [i]“One of the bands has a guitar amp” [/i]

WTF!! So among the other SIX guitarists, and THREE Bassists only ONE of them can bring their amp!!

How do they practise?

I have lent my amp out once before. And it got broken. Not dented or scratched. Fried. Not sure what they put in it, but it completely killed two Hartke 210XL’s and my Hartke HA3500 Head. I went out the next day and had to buy all of my gear again. £887.

I lent it to two bands, so first band said “It was working when we used it” and second band said “wasn’t working when we used it”. Thus both avoiding blame.

I really don’t want to bring my nice amp on Sunday now. But then again it kills me to have all this nice gear sitting at home, and here I am considering buying a crappy amp just to lend out at gigs.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I’m going out my mind here![/quote]



Just say no. No embarressement. No explainations. If any band is only getting to play because they lend out gear, they are being used.

It's no.

End.

T

[waynepunkdude]

I keep this around for any such problems.

"The sound man said I could borrow your amp"

"Yes you can, I'll just go get it"

[Stan_da_man]

I must be the only person who borrows amps at gigs then and I play with an Epifani/BFM set-up!

The reason there is amp sharing is because:

a ) Only 1 band usually needs to soundcheck
b ) It saves time loading in, so there isn't 5,000 amps on stage which all need soundchecking, also more stage space
c ) It saves time between bands going off stage and coming on, no amp moving, taking equipment off stage etc.

Edited June 7, 2010 by Stan_da_man

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='860205' date='Jun 7 2010, 07:00 PM']I keep this around for any such problems.

"The sound man said I could borrow your amp"

"Yes you can, I'll just go get it"
[/quote]


Ooohhh! I used to have one of them, for some reason I really liked it, for playing guitar through. Was going through a 60s Hiwatt 4x12 though.

[gafbass02]

ohhhhh sooo many rehearsal room memories of the early '90's pressing all those buttons over and over hoping one of 'em didnt just sound like a middy bark through the whopping great horn cabs they used to give you

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='fingerz' post='860137' date='Jun 7 2010, 05:51 PM']Yeh 51m0n - I remember working my ass off for an amp when I started gigging. It wasn't my amp of choice, but loud enough to play with a drum kit. Bad karma if you go and do gigs and don't own your own gear to do so! Do these people even exist??!![/quote]
Oh yes. They certainly do. I've seen people turn up with [u]nothing[/u] and expect to borrow instruments, leads, straps, tuners, money, get a lift home... the list is endless. If you tolerate it.

There was a situation when (for once!) I'd set up and gone out front for a beer and some chips, only to find some oik using my rig without even asking (I heard it from outside). We won't talk about what happened next, though. Needless to say, he ended up with no onstage monitoring, and just a DI box at his feet.
If he'd asked, I might have obliged.

[Ian Savage]

[quote name='Johnston' post='860250' date='Jun 7 2010, 07:28 PM']If a 16yo on pocket money and a few shillings for doing the odd job, albeit with a little help can sort out a backline I can't see any reason why anyone else can't.[/quote]

Abso-bloody-lutely; with how little you can get (yes, heavy, yes, possibly not great-sounding BUT) totally giggable gear for these days there really isn't an excuse. I only managed to fetch less than £200 for the Laney B1 head plus Peavey 1x15" cab I'd gigged for years on evilBay, and that was total overkill power-wise for a lot of the gigs we did.

[Tait]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='860205' date='Jun 7 2010, 07:00 PM']I keep this around for any such problems.

"The sound man said I could borrow your amp"

"Yes you can, I'll just go get it"[/quote]

is that one of those carlsbro heads? a rehersal room i sometimes use has one of them, with some beat up old cab, no idea what it actually is, pretty old and not exactly in pristine condition either. i actually quite like it.

[velvetkevorkian]

[quote name='51m0n' post='860127' date='Jun 7 2010, 05:44 PM']Go on then list me "numerous reasons" why a band might not have a ~150w Peavey 115 TNT combo off ebay??

They go for about £100!!

They are enough (if you learn how to eq) to get heard on a stage, they will be DI'ed. I know, I've used them many times as an onstage monitor. It isnt a nice sound, it doesnt look pretty,m there are no flashing lights, and it will not ever sound 'great' but it will do the job (just). If thats all you can afford then tough.

Its not "incredibly elitist" to expect people to bring the tools they need to do the job they intend to do. Its common sense.

It is however incredibly thoughtless (to the point of either mindless ignorance or supreme arrogance) to presuppose that you will be allowed to use someone else rig (be it a similar combo or several grands worth of kit) because you haven't even sorted out the bare minimum essentials required to actually be gigging.

Worse yet to tell someone that they will have to lend their gear to someone else that they dont know from adam and accept all the associated risks.

I insure my gear, in case its stolen or breaks whilst I am using it. If that were to happen I would still be out of pocket by a significant amount as a result of the way insurance works, not to mention the time taken to get replacement kit. So it doesnt mean I am willing to, or would advocate ayone else, lending their kit.

You do so at your own risk, and all those who are lending away like happy bunnies will be happy until the day comes that a couple of grands worth of their kit gets busted by one of a group of people borrowing it on the night, none of whom has the honesty to own up to what they've done. At which point you will change your mind. Or you are a fool. I couldnt really care which, cos I'll still be able to play through my rig beacause I didnt lend it to some git who should have brought his own kit.[/quote]
Let's be clear: I am not advocating simply turning up and assuming that someone will have gear to use. I'm not suggesting that everyone ought to lend their gear if they don't want to. I just think its important to recognise that sometimes, for reasons of money or logistics, it is not feasible for someone to bring an amp, and to say that therefore they shouldn't be gigging is very unfair. I have gigged with tiny house amps and gone totally DI on occasion, and wouldn't hesitate to again, but if an amp is there, most people are IME happy to let you use it as long as you can demonstrate that you're capable of acting responsibly- just asking and saying thank you goes a long way. As ever, YMMV.

Maybe my attitude would be different if I was taking a £2k rig instead of my somewhat unconventional setup.

[Doddy]

I was once doing a gig with my covers band when a bunch of lads turned up and told us that they were
supporting us. Great,no problems-less work for us. However,when they said that the promoter had told them
that they could use our gear,we told them that they couldn't. We'd got another 2 or 3 gigs that week and
didn't want to risk anything. We told them to bring their own gear in and set up in front of us,but they hadn't
brought anything with them other than 2 guitars and a bass.
They went home.

If I'm doing a multi band gig,I always have at least my Roland Cube 100 and a DI box in the car-and that is
only when I'm told that an amp is 'supplied'. Otherwise,I'll take my normal rig. I don't really buy the excuse
that it takes too long to change the gear over. If my band can pull down a full set up of amps,drums,PA etc.,
and be on the road in around half an hour,I'm sure you can change a backline over in minutes.

I don't think it's a lot to ask that you carry your own gear...even if you don't use it. If you want to gig,you
really should have an amp.It doesn't need to be great-hell,my first gigging amp was an old McGregor Keyboard
amp. It might not have been brilliant,but it allowed me to gig until I could afford my first Trace Elliot combo.

Also,drum skins do break..........if you abuse them. If the drummer is playing correctly they can last for a long
time.

[bartelby]

[quote name='Johnston' post='859830' date='Jun 7 2010, 01:25 PM']But threads like this have me considering getting a pod and going straight to the PA if I ever start playing properly again.[/quote]

That's why I bought a Sansamp BDDI.

[JTUK]

I guess we don't really know how this gig is going ahead...

But... other bands don't have gear...???????? so 'promoter' wants a backline supplied...!!!
don't know the names of other bands..so they could be anybody..??????

No mention of whether there is a full PA ...and if so, then half of the problem is sorted altho the monitor situation is ?????
So, DI an option..?? err.....????

And I gues the band might have to sell a quantity of tickets to get back exes..????

Sounds like a gig I'd avoid like the plague..??

Although I wouldn't do these now..I have done a few..and bands who know what they are doing, can pull down their backline pretty damn quick IME.

My question would be..is this done properly by people who know what they are doing... then ok...but it smacks of a lot of desperation to me...and maybe a lot of exploitation..
Fine..if that suits you for whatever reason..but I wouldn't be lending any kit without so much as a courtesy chat with the guys doing the lending and borrowing.
If you can't get beyond that..or be bothereed to..then why should I bother...?

As it happens, I would only lend my gear to someone I knew and trusted and I'd expect them to be very grateful and very careful.
Any ambiguity over this and it is a NO...

[mep]

[quote name='cetera' post='859809' date='Jun 7 2010, 01:10 PM']I NEVER lend my gear. Only exception would be a friend who I knew & trusted implicitly.[/quote]

+1 for that, the rest can go whistle.

[Mog]

Theres a 7 minute allocation for change over at most of the festivals we play. Downside is your first song is your soundcheck. Set of 30 minutes. If theres more than one stage and you sound crap during that first track no-one is gonna stay around to hear more. If the band is trying to shift merch then that is not good. By having less change overs the sound quality can be improved. Even if its only a 3 band bill, having everyband bring their gear is a nightmare. Especially if the bands are playing different styles. Mic up 3 kits, get sound. 3 different bass rigs with 3 different sounds to sort out FOH. Multiple guitar amps etc. Where is the extra gear held between sets? On stage or to the side.

@ Doddy
How is breaking a skin not playing properly?? Have you never seen a stick shatter after a couple of rim shots and rip through a head during a roll which followed?

If anything this thread shows how badly organised a scene you guys have over there. Since when do bands, especially groups who haven't previously played the same bill together, not get in touch with each other before gigs. Even if a couple of hours beforehand. Between Facebook, Myspace and skype it doesn't take much.

[Colledge]

i have to partially agree with mog. in a lot of instances, its much easier to use one backline. i always take my full amp rig with me to a gig. if i'm there 1st then i'll set up (after checking with the promoter / sound guy / whoever) or if theres already a band there setting up, i'll check what the crack is and if possible and everyones happy and friendly i'll use whats there or use the cabs that are there with my head. the whole thing just goes more smoothly that way. less hassle for the bands between sets, less to carry, smoother transition and more room back / side stage.

but back on track. the promoter imho sounds like an arse if he's simply expecting you to supply the backline for the whole gig. this sort of thing should be disgussed in person between the bands. Anyone who is expecting to play a gig should expect to use their own, theirs no harm in bringing it and not using it, would rather that than be without an amp.

[Doddy]

[quote name='Mog' post='860306' date='Jun 7 2010, 08:27 PM']@ Doddy
How is breaking a skin not playing properly?? Have you never seen a stick shatter after a couple of rim shots and rip through a head during a roll which followed?[/quote]

No I haven't.

[Mog]

[quote name='Doddy' post='860323' date='Jun 7 2010, 08:46 PM']No I haven't.[/quote]

sh*t then , you guys must be a laugh to play with. You do have fun when ye play right?? Or are ye in too much of a rush to get back on the road home so ye can snigger at the unprofessional idiots who ripped a drum head. Nice.

[Doddy]

[quote name='Mog' post='860332' date='Jun 7 2010, 08:52 PM']sh*t then , you guys must be a laugh to play with. You do have fun when ye play right?? Or are ye in too much of a rush to get back on the road home so ye can snigger at the unprofessional idiots who ripped a drum head. Nice. [/quote]

Not at all-we have a right laugh,we just don't feel the need to twat gear.