Lending Gear at gigs

[Telebass]

[quote name='throwoff' post='859759' date='Jun 7 2010, 12:37 PM']Tell them to shove it.
No Gear - No Band.

Simple.[/quote]

+1


"They may have to travel a distance without the room for gear.....there's many reasons why they wouldn't have an amp""

There are no reasons AT ALL for a band to turn up without the proper kit, barring accidents on the way. Even then, they should call ahead and say that they cannot play.

I wouldn't lend my gear to anyone I didn't know well, and I've only done that twice.

[umph]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='860205' date='Jun 7 2010, 07:00 PM']I keep this around for any such problems.

"The sound man said I could borrow your amp"

"Yes you can, I'll just go get it"
[/quote]
you run the risk of some guy making that amp sound amazing though and totally showing you up

[velvetkevorkian]

[quote name='Telebass' post='860345' date='Jun 7 2010, 09:03 PM']+1


"They may have to travel a distance without the room for gear.....there's many reasons why they wouldn't have an amp""

There are no reasons AT ALL for a band to turn up without the proper kit, barring accidents on the way. Even then, they should call ahead and say that they cannot play.

I wouldn't lend my gear to anyone I didn't know well, and I've only done that twice.[/quote]
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree

[umph]

[quote name='Telebass' post='860345' date='Jun 7 2010, 09:03 PM']+1


"They may have to travel a distance without the room for gear.....there's many reasons why they wouldn't have an amp""

There are no reasons AT ALL for a band to turn up without the proper kit, barring accidents on the way. Even then, they should call ahead and say that they cannot play.

I wouldn't lend my gear to anyone I didn't know well, and I've only done that twice.[/quote]
When we play out of town gigs, theres no way we could bring all drum stuff, 3 cabs, 3 heads and pedal boards all in one car and its just not economical to bring two.

some people do have good reasons sometimes! No need to be a total grump

[Crikey!]

We lend cabs, you break it you buy it.

Dont lend heads cos ours are all on their way out anyway. We do over 100 gigs a year...

It depends on your scene. The gigs we do have a proper community feel about them. Everyone helps out, everyones friends, everyones pleasant.

Then you get the occasional people who turn up with just a bass and a lead... "where do i plug in?"

Speak to the soundman, not my problem.

Sorted.

You need to judge it on the situation.

If we're playing with a band whos just come back from america and all they have is their instruments and they email us a few days before explaining the situation and asking to borrow gear, thats fine.

If a local band turns up on the night with just instruments expecting to borrow gear, thats not fine.

Easy. Look after each other and you'll get looked after. No respect, no gig.

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Crikey!' post='860362' date='Jun 7 2010, 09:16 PM']We lend cabs, you break it you buy it.

Dont lend heads cos ours are all on their way out anyway. We do over 100 gigs a year...

It depends on your scene. The gigs we do have a proper community feel about them. Everyone helps out, everyones friends, everyones pleasant.

Then you get the occasional people who turn up with just a bass and a lead... "where do i plug in?"

Speak to the soundman, not my problem.

Sorted.

You need to judge it on the situation.

If we're playing with a band whos just come back from america and all they have is their instruments and they email us a few days before explaining the situation and asking to borrow gear, thats fine.

If a local band turns up on the night with just instruments expecting to borrow gear, thats not fine.

Easy. Look after each other and you'll get looked after. No respect, no gig.[/quote]


That's a fair point when I do a Punk scene gig we usually share cabs and drums, it's usually London gigs where the problem arises.

How many times have I used you cab?

[Crikey!]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='860371' date='Jun 7 2010, 09:21 PM']That's a fair point when I do a Punk scene gig we usually share cabs and drums, it's usually London gigs where the problem arises.

How many times have I used you cab?[/quote]


We use each others cabs everytime we play together. Without fail. Except when we're on different stages...

Thats how it works, we phone you up a few days before saying "you bring drums and a guitar cab we'll bring bass cab and a guitar cab?"

you go "yea cool"

and its sorted.

If anyone else phones up we say, "we'll have all the cabs and drum shells, you just need breakables"

If they dont phone up, they use their own gear, unless its wonk unit. they can do what they want.

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Crikey!' post='860383' date='Jun 7 2010, 09:36 PM']We use each others cabs everytime we play together. Without fail. Except when we're on different stages...

Thats how it works, we phone you up a few days before saying "you bring drums and a guitar cab we'll bring bass cab and a guitar cab?"

you go "yea cool"

and its sorted.

If anyone else phones up we say, "we'll have all the cabs and drum shells, you just need breakables"

If they dont phone up, they use their own gear, unless its wonk unit. they can do what they want.[/quote]


Exactly, it always runs smooth.

And yeah Wonk Unit can do what they like.

[urbanx]

[quote]I suspect in the middle of this is a promoter who's managed to get one of the bands to let everyone use their gear on his gigs for many years so he's not looking to change that.[/quote]

Exactly that. Most bands we play with use 30w combo's, miced through the PA. We have a reputation for turning up with 3 stacks, and everyone

[quote]He's probably telling all the other bands that a backline will be provided and he'd prefer it if they didn't bring their own as it takes longer to change bands over and clutters up the venue.[/quote]

I expect thats [b]exactly[/b] what has happened!

[quote]It's always worked out for him 'cos no one playing this kind of gig has the clout to say no and risk loosing that gig and future gigs.[/quote]

It's one of a couple of venues in our city, and a regular gig for us.

[quote]There are best practices like asking nicely, getting the bands to discuss and co-ordinate things beforehand[/quote]

Ah, but for that to happen, the bands would need to know who each other are! The 'promotor' is unavailable, I've been looking for flyers round town (that's how I find out who I'm playing with, with this promotor)

[quote]We use each others cabs everytime we play together. Without fail. Except when we're on different stages...

Thats how it works, we phone you up a few days before saying "you bring drums and a guitar cab we'll bring bass cab and a guitar cab?"

you go "yea cool"

and its sorted.[/quote]

Ah, but you two know each other. I don't even know who the other bands on our night are.

[quote]I assume you're getting extra payment for providing the backline?[/quote]
Ha ha! It's a pay-to-play venue, but that's another issue.

[bumnote]

Its very much a personal choice, I rarely happened to me, and I wouldnt lend a decent bass to a stranger. I can understand a promoters reluctance to loose time changing amps over on a multiple bill.

Im surprised there is so much concern about lending amps/cabs to strangers on the assumption you are in the building.

If you have any reasonable bit of kit its designed to to be used, and to a degree abused. Most amps are pretty bomb proof.

I think a condition you can use my amp as long as you dont turn it past 5 or I will come and and unplug you there and then would work for me.

[johnnylager]

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='860271' date='Jun 7 2010, 07:45 PM']...I just think its important to recognise that sometimes, for reasons of money or logistics, it is not feasible for someone to bring an amp, and to say that therefore they shouldn't be gigging is very unfair.[/quote]
I saved bloody hard to buy my first amp at age 14 or 15 I guess, and before I got a motor, blagged a lift with my kit off friends or family and I did far more gigs aged 15-25 than I do now. I don't understand why you would turn up at a gig without the tools for the job. Eliteist my arse, how can you be in a f***ing live band without the kit and some way of getting it there?

Dave Marks has got it spot on.

FWIW, I may well lend my rig to others, if it's arranged in advance, he does what I say and I don't get the fear when I see him soundcheck. Or her, of course.

Edited June 7, 2010 by johnnylager

[urbanx]

[quote]If you have any reasonable bit of kit its designed to to be used, and to a degree abused. Most amps are pretty bomb proof.[/quote]

...until someone runs a DC current through it...

Edited June 7, 2010 by urbanx

[escholl]

I don't loan my equipment out, for anyone, ever, under any circumstances -- as a rule. But, for bands I've played with before, or am friends with, well I have a nice rig and I usually offer to let them use it. It is fun to hear just how bloody good it sounds out front

In the OP's situation however, I would tell the promoter to p*ss off, honest. Don't put up with that sh*te.

And I fail to see how some of these muppets out there can honestly treat gear so badly. I wouldn't even know -how- to damage gear like in some of the stories I've heard of on here. And even the last drummer I played with, who used to hit the skins like they'd personally wronged him and would go through a set of 3B's about every other rehearsal, or indeed sometimes every rehearsal, never broke a skin.

[2pods]

It's only friends (and sometimes not even them-you know who blew up the OHM60 combo !) and trusted bands by prior arangement and/or supervision. :ph34r:

It can be even worse with the wedding thing we used to do.

End of a good night, getting ready to strip the gear, when a few drunks seem to think if they get their pals to pressure us, I 'll be only too happy to give them my nice Anni 'ray and Trace to abuse. I took the hit for the band, as they had no keyboard player (Ramones tribute band) so ours didn't care, and our other two were "well, if it was just up to us.." (lying through their teeth).

I don't care, I just said no from then on (even though I used to bring a far eastern Spector for guys I knew)

[Doddy]

[quote name='urbanx' post='860429' date='Jun 7 2010, 10:08 PM']Ha ha! It's a pay-to-play venue, but that's another issue.[/quote]

There is now a simple answer to your original post.
If you are paying to play,don't lend your gear out if you don't want to. Better yet-don't play at these
'venues'.
If you were playing a paying gig I could understand you thinking about doing an amp share to a point. But,being as though
you are paying to play,I don't feel that the 'promoter' has any right asking you to supply the amp for everyone.

[thisnameistaken]

If I'm on a bill with bands I know and trust, they can use my gear.

If it's bands I don't know or don't trust, they can't. Unless I decide I can trust them, in which case they can.

If it comes down to it they can always play without backline can't they? It's not like anyone is going to have to pull out. And ultimately that's what you're going to get if you take on a gig that you can't get your amp to, and you look like an untrustworthy person.

Realistically: Usually if a band directly asks me if they can borrow my gear I say sure, show them around, explain what I'd rather they didn't do, etc., and it's all fine. If a "promoter" (trans. c*** who takes money from bands in return for nothing) asks, I say no, you can't take a risk on my gear in return for nothing. Give me a deposit for the value of my gear and you can do what you want with it.

[tauzero]

[quote name='urbanx' post='860465' date='Jun 7 2010, 10:32 PM']...until someone runs a DC current through it...[/quote]
As the input capacitor would block that, only an amp that was already broken would be broken by that.

[Prime_BASS]

I usually lend my gear out.

It's scary, but I run through it with all the bassists and make sure they know not what to do, buy since I've got like a 2/1 ratio on my compressor even when a guy with a stingray used it it only neededthe gain turning down a nudge.

Silently though, sometimes I enjoy the setups and breakdowns more than the actual gig....

[JTUK]

I understand the practicalities of getting a few bands crammed onto a stage within a certain window..but...

I transport the bass gear, I set it up, I break it down..and I have to deal with any problems that might occur to my gear plus I have the worry that it is being treated well....so I don't relax on this gig even after my main stint is done..
I am pretty much on call for the whole show

What am I..their roadie...? what are they paying me..?
Where is the money or sense in all this....?
And you pay to do this as well...?????

I hope I am not taking the p** too much..but someone certainly is. IMO.

Edited June 8, 2010 by JTUK

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='urbanx' post='860429' date='Jun 7 2010, 10:08 PM']Exactly that. Most bands we play with use 30w combo's, miced through the PA. We have a reputation for turning up with 3 stacks, and everyone


It's one of a couple of venues in our city, and a regular gig for us.

Ah, but for that to happen, the bands would need to know who each other are! The 'promotor' is unavailable, I've been looking for flyers round town (that's how I find out who I'm playing with, with this promotor)

Ah, but you two know each other. I don't even know who the other bands on our night are.


Ha ha! It's a pay-to-play venue, but that's another issue.[/quote]


suggestion time for next time.
Book a venue yourself, invite your friends along to see you.
Invite a couple of other bands you like to support you/play after you. Ask them to bring some friends, decide if you trust them with your kit or ask them to bring their own. Pay them a wee bit.
stick up posters, make a facebook group, press etc
Charge your friends and their friends and the other bands friends and randomers to come see your bands
make it a bit of a spectacle, create a bit of community give out copies of the nice posters you made or something.
make buzz about this night.
have fun, make sure the fella on the door stays sober.
Pay bands, say thank you.
Pay the dude on the door, say thank you.
Pay venue whatever it was you had agreed on to book it out. Find out if they liked it, did they make enough? You have enough friends they probably did.
Book another night.
Look in your hands at the money you made.

Find a cool local band with lots of friends. Find another two. Or maybe convince a non-local band to play that you think are amazing and your friends would like. Maybe you could play yourselves again, or wait a while.
Have another good night. Pay happy bands with money from happy fans, take the profit as a cut for running the thing.

change the music scene of your city

[vmaxblues]

I will only lend kit to trusted friends, as to anyone else, absolutely NO.

I had a vintage Trace Elliiott Head destroyed at a big charity gig, It was DI'd and I told the other bass player not to touch any of the controls, when I went on stage I found he had cranked everything up full, it was distorted and wrecked,

We all work hard and strive to get our ideal rigs, and I hate phrases like....' I didn't mean to do it mate' or ' must've been faulty pal'

DO NOT LEND KIT, unless you know and trust them.

[JackLondon]

I have this for gigs where there's a kitshare - [url="http://www.sonicftp.com/news/images/s-namm05_crate500.jpg"]http://www.sonicftp.com/news/images/s-namm05_crate500.jpg[/url]

They want an amp and that's what I bring!

[throwoff]

[url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_vtone_bass_bdi21_analog_modeling_preamp.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_vtone_b...ling_preamp.htm[/url]

Buy one of those. Next time you get a 'the sound guy said I could use you amp' tell them that this an amp because it emulates speakers.

[JackLondon]

So to answer the OP properly,

No don't lend your gear to anyone, wherever I've played there was a backline provided by the venue and if their wasn't then I would ask if the bass can go through the PA if the answer was yes then I would take nothing but my bass and Boss GT10B. IF the bass can't go through the PA I would take my full rig and no one would be able to use it, you don't have a rig then you don't have a gig, simple as.

All the people that say young band can't have gear for whatever reasons, that is bollocks.

Look here :
[url="http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/78474"]http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/78474[/url]
[url="http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/b-150/12553"]http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/b-150/12553[/url]
[url="http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/84366"]http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/84366[/url]

Any of those above is below a £100 new, weights around 10kg so it's easy one hand carry, can be taken on public transport or will fit on your knees in the car. Each one of the ''teenage'' musicians I saw had come to the gig with some sort of ''groupie wannabe'' attached to him so get her to carry this stuff, make her usefull once.

When I started out years ago I had a sh*tty little 15 watt amp made by Laboga which cost me quite a bit but I was smart enough to save up and get it within 2 months of getting a bass, afterwards when my parents saw that I was actually playing and having interest in it they bought me a better combo.

It's really annoying to see people defending ''young bands'' with no gear. If you look at them they probably are all dressed in nice branded clothes, have the latest mobile phones, brand new iPod etc so if they would spend their money where it should be the problem is gone. They however choose to be ignorant and expect to trun up and have everything ready for them. I had a situation once when ''semi-pro'' bloke came up to me and asked if he could use my rig because the backline provided was some little Trace Elliot 20 watt combo, I said that he can use my rig if he buys it off me, otherwise feck off and buy your own stuff. My girlfriend has maxed out her credit card for my amp because I had suddenly became ampless and had a gig coming up so I owe it to her to look after this gear more than anything else.

Each one of us spent hundreds if not thousands of pounds on their rig and not only was that gear costing us a lot of sacrifice it in many cases has to also be justified to the second half and I wouldn't like to explain to my missus that my gear is fooked and I have to replace it because I've lent it to someone who didn't give a damn about it.

Lending Gear = NO,
Letting someone have a quick play to see how it sounds = MAYBE
Touching my gear or playing through it without asking first = ME in BERSERK MODE

[vmaxblues]

JackLondon, you have nailed it for me..

+5000