Lending Gear at gigs

[urbanx]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but as much as I've tried, this is still happening at every single gig. I've been as blunt as I can with people.

How often does this happen top other people?

Here's our last 3 gig bookings:

[RockfordStone]

i only lend out gear now if i am asked personally, and even then i avoid lending the head.

i played a gig in 2008, it turned out my guitarist had promised my rig to a bunch of other bands (one band i didnt mind cos im good friends with the bassist). one band didnt even have any leads.

so as the only bassist who had a rig i had to lend... i ended up with a busted speaker and several pricey leads being nicked.

i dont like lending gear unless im forced or asked nicely, but at the same time, i would never expect anyone to provide rig for me.

promoters just seem to think they can promise peoples rig out to people and its not fair

[Rich]

Oh I like that... [i]"We're travelling up from London [/i]{to where?} [i]so only bringing ourselves and breakables and one smallish guitar amp. Can you guys get a bass amp?"[/i]

Right. So a bass amp isn't breakable then..?

[Low End Bee]

At our last gig the support contacted our drummer and asked well in advance if he could kit share minus tinware & snare. They had a couple of chats and agreed.
Night of the gig their bass player turns up with a bass and nothing else. Not even a cable. Can he use my rig? No he can't.
He ended up peeing off the sound guy who had to drag the house frankenstein rig out of the depths and wasting a load of sound check time. Luckily the sound guy saw my point and said he wouldn't have lent it either.
If I'm asked in advance I will nearly always say yes. But it's rude to assume in my book.
He nearly blew the gig for the band. He didn't even know their was a house rig.

[urbanx]

[quote name='Rich' post='981581' date='Oct 8 2010, 02:00 PM']Oh I like that... [i]"We're travelling up from London [/i]{to where?} [i]so only bringing ourselves and breakables and one smallish guitar amp. Can you guys get a bass amp?"[/i]

Right. So a bass amp isn't breakable then..?[/quote]

All the way, 50 Miles North to Cambridge.

I like the way they also played on the "We only have a small guitar amp" card, hinting that they'd like to borrow our guitar stacks too.

(Note: All of these email assume both head and cab when they say 'amp')

[Shambo]

Let them use your 30 quid amp then.

[urbanx]

[quote name='Shambo' post='981613' date='Oct 8 2010, 02:24 PM']Let them use your 30 quid amp then. [/quote]

Y'know on the Top Gear challenges where they follow them round in a hateful car, I feel like that!

I fear we'll get blacklisted for being a**eholes about lending gear. But as you can see from the last mail, they expect us to get to the venue, not headline, and provide back line free of charge.

I'll try and get a pic of the amp of doom up soon

[EdwardHimself]

As far as i see it's not much different in principle from the way i have to lock my washing up liquid in the cupboard so no-one uses it: People just think that other peoples' stuff is theirs for the using. I for one am not going to lend my rig to anyone else unless they're a personal friend who i can trust.

I think you ought to take a harder stance against these people mate so they don't keep on using you like this. Or just buy a B.B. Blaster combo

Edited October 8, 2010 by EdwardHimself

[Rich]

[quote name='urbanx' post='981607' date='Oct 8 2010, 02:19 PM']All the way, 50 Miles North to Cambridge.

I like the way they also played on the "We only have a small guitar amp" card, [b]hinting that they'd like to borrow our guitar stacks too[/b].

(Note: All of these email assume both head and cab when they say 'amp')[/quote]
That hadn't occurred to me, but yes it does rather look like it.
Oh dear. They're going to be a bit quiet, aren't they?

[charic]

Short of someone turning up to a gig and their equipment not working I would NOT lend anything. I no way would they get near my main bass no matter the situation.

If someone turns up to a gig and theres a problem you can usually assume its a transport issue. However I would be setting the volume AND they would not touch my EQ. They would also be signing something stating they agree to be held responsible for anything that happens to the equipment while they use it.

[Dubs]

I think you're response is very fair - i.e. the fact that you don't lend anything because of insurance issues and massive repair bills. They can't really argue with that, and if they do, then it's tough sh*t as far as I can see.

[mybass]

[quote name='urbanx' post='859745' date='Jun 7 2010, 12:29 PM']Hey,
I know this has been bought up before, but it’s a re-occurring problem.
We have a gig on Sunday, four bands, we’re on third. I’ve been asked to bring all my gear to share, because [i]“One of the bands has a guitar amp” [/i]

WTF!! So among the other SIX guitarists, and THREE Bassists only ONE of them can bring their amp!!

How do they practise?

I have lent my amp out once before. And it got broken. Not dented or scratched. Fried. Not sure what they put in it, but it completely killed two Hartke 210XL’s and my Hartke HA3500 Head. I went out the next day and had to buy all of my gear again. £887.

I lent it to two bands, so first band said “It was working when we used it” and second band said “wasn’t working when we used it”. Thus both avoiding blame.

I really don’t want to bring my nice amp on Sunday now. But then again it kills me to have all this nice gear sitting at home, and here I am considering buying a crappy amp just to lend out at gigs.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I’m going out my mind here![/quote]

Be nice but say no, you have suffered, at your own financial cost, the breakdown of your equipment becuase you have lent it out before
and had it returned damaged.
You can also charge, say £10 per band?

[stingrayPete1977]

Not sure if this has come up but its another plus point to the little class D heads. I like others may lend the cabs but not keen on lending my head and never if we are on after because then you have no amp before you have even played! I take my Genz shuttle for me to use and lend out the Laney 160 watt head for the others to use that I normally leave in the van as a backup. Im happy the Genz-Benz is safe and that I will have the best bass sound of the night!

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='urbanx' post='981569' date='Oct 8 2010, 01:52 PM']Sorry to dig up an old thread, but as much as I've tried, this is still happening at every single gig. I've been as blunt as I can with people.

How often does this happen top other people?[/quote]

I think the prob is that you've now got yourselves a reputation as being (no offence) suckers/lenders for gear. How did the issue resolve itself from your original post back in June? [i]TBH I can't be arsed reading back thru 13 pages to find out.[/i]

Personally I reckon you nailed it yourself on the 2nd or 3rd page of this thread. Give them the names of a few local gear rental joints; London area willl be tripping over themselves with offers (I can personally recommend John Henry's) that & a van rental co to eliminate any stories about lack of car space.
When my son's band first started out I was minder/manager/roadie/agent & advertising. I used to get damn good offers from local rentals for one night hires of Marshalls. The only thing he ever borrowed or later loaned out was his cymbals & he had the lot nicked (£500+) at a 5 band gig in Glasgow.
They're just back from a brief 2 week tour of the UK; nothing was borrowed or loaned but the guitar & bass have both managed to blow up their Marshall's on the last night; so you've always got that to take into consideration too; "[i]what happens if the amp packs in for whatever reason before it's your turn to use your amp?[/i]" and you've no backup.

[zero9]

I've lent out my stuff in the past, luckily there has never been any damage. However, I won't be in future, because some people simply take the p*ss. They assume that because they haven't bothered to bring an amp/cab, you'll lend 'em yours. Unless it's someone I know and it has been pre-arranged, the short answer is no.

Edited October 8, 2010 by zero9

[mep]

Bring along a little practice amp and a cheap lead. Let the sound guy mike it up for them. You use your rig and blow them away. Keep doing that and they will get the message.

[stu_g]

surely they would want a tried and tested sound ?i would never borrow someone elses rig unless i really had to
i have a sound i like which is from using my own gear to obtain it ,i cant believe that many bands would just turn up on the off chance of borrowing some gear
i would just tell them in advance no chance am im sure they would rustle up some gear and if they cant they shouldnt do the gig

[JTUK]

Generally, the people who turn up and plug into anything probably don't really care what they do with the amp...

As I have had my fair share of blowing up crap kit...in my younger days, I am always mindful of how I look after any cab I go through almost to the point of being grateful that is reproduces a decent sound at all.
But after a recent experience of sharing a rig.. which didn't work at all well for me.. I don't think I would be putting my rig up there for the common good.
My rig wouldn't effortlessy cover the whole stage at an open air gig anyway so the only way to do it would be to have a 500w amp and 2 full-on cabs ( 2x4x10, in all probability ). In a more confined area, I can coax and milk the amps to work well for me..whether I would trust anyone else I didn't know to do the same, I am not at all sure.
So..I wouldn't be offering to do it.

It seems to me..in this general thread..that the gigs are often the only gigs available and that the users have to put up with these terms or not play..
But some people have already bucked the system by not bringing any kit..and others are left to provide.
The question I would ask is..what happens to the money that these events bring in..?
I would guess a few aren't doing it for nothing..

I'd say, do it properly or don't do it at all

[Bobby K]

I don't usually let me people share my gear these days. My AER basic performer combo got damaged acouple of years ago when some pratt i let use it continually whacked up the volume throughout his set.

Nowadays if anybody asks, they get a polite no from me. If they take offence, I ask them what [i]they[/i] do for a living. If they say they work in an office, I'll ask them if they'd like it if i came in to their office on monday morning and borrowed their computer!!

It's the same principle as any tradesman not lending out vital, valuable tools.

Obviously there are times when a gear share is arranged in advance, especially with people you know and trust, but I can't stand it when people just turn up [i]expecting[/i] to use whatever is there. It's very bad manners in my book.

Just my tuppence worth...

[ObscureRyan]

When i first started giging i used to lend amps all the time just because i didn't have my own. but i always used to contact the bassist before hand and offer them some money for letting me use it, but they would never take it lol

[BigAlonBass]

[quote name='ObscureRyan' post='982343' date='Oct 9 2010, 10:10 AM']When i first started giging i used to [s]lend [/s] BORROW amps all the time just because i didn't have my own. but i always used to contact the bassist before hand and offer them some money for letting me use it, but they would never take it lol[/quote]

[fretmeister]

[quote name='OldGit' post='859811' date='Jun 7 2010, 01:14 PM']Laminate this ....
[attachment=51597:Borrow.jpg][/quote]


This is my view too.

I can think of 1 person who I would lend my gear too - Paul_C of this parish.

Because I trust him and I wouldn't have to say "you break it = you bought it" it would be automatic.


I got asked to lend the Rig of Doom to a bunch of 17 year olds once. (2 heads, 2 Marshall VBC412, even the pedal board!!). I said no politely, and pointed out that immediately after we were on, we were going.

Then the guitarist from the kids band came up and accused me of making their bassist use his own sh*te amp, therefore making their whole band sound crap.

He actually had his own amp with him!!! He just wanted to use mine because it was "better."

Eijits.

[TransistorBassMan]

A few random thoughts....

I'm not sure where I stand on this. I've been musician, a sound engineer and a promoter and I can see validity in a lot of the points being made. I suppose you should do what you feel is right for you and sod what anyone else thinks!

I usually say yes when someone asks to borrow my amp. But if they don't respect me or my equipment then I'll turn it off!

Thinking about it, my experience at my first gig as a bassist had led to me being quite relaxed about lending gear. I turned up with a Westone Thunder 1A and an 100W Alligator combo. The bass player of the headline band (still) is my favourite bassist and before the soundcheck she offered me the use of her Stingray and her Dynacord rig as it would make life easier for the soundman (I was the soundman ) I said no to the Stingray, but yes to the Dynacord. It sounded awesome Lou Howard (Red Guitars/The Planet Wilson) you're a star!!!

The only thing I've ever had damaged was a Fender guitar combo that one of the guitarists in my band was using!! Fortunately I'd lent the support band my bass amp, so they were happy to lend us an amp to finish our set.

I can get away with never lending my basses or guitars because I don't play in standard tuning and I'm not retuning them for anyone. Having said that, when Rrussell Bell (Gary Numan's guitarist 79-89) was due to guest with my Numan covers band, my back-up Telecaster was re-strung and retuned in the dressing room after the soundcheck Nobody ever asks to borrow my synths

Like I said earlier, do what you feel is right for you and sod what anyone else thinks

[Slipperydick]

Unlesss its omebody you know, even if its a young lad-actually, epecially if its a young kid. no matter what the reason.

Tell em to F#ck off. as has been said, if they aint got the gear, they aint ready.

Had a bass player in a support band almost obliterate my Hartke 3500 by showing off once. So unless your prepared to jump on stage and unplug him.....

[tjm]

I hate lending out my gear. If you haven't got your own rig without an excuse like, it got stolen 5 minutes ago as I was carrying it into the venue and I need to play this gig so I can pay for someone to give me a piggy back to china to feed my disabled child, then they aren't lending mine. I don't even like lending gear to "friends" who are mostly just familiar faces on a local scene who you only get to know through sh*tty interband small talk, with conversations about upcoming tour and recording plans, filled with words "dude" and "man" and "sweet".

I also don't play gigs for sh*tty promoters who don't have the balls to ask you to borrow gear, and instead tell "someone" to bring a bass amp. It also annoys me when headline acts don't even bring a drum kit for themselves to use. Our drummer uses his kit, or at least his breakables and his bass drum because of his triggers which don't fit on certain other kits, at every gig. If he is asked before a gig to provide a kit he usually won't mind if we are high on the bill and don't have to hang around long waiting for our gear. But when a promoter asks what gear we are taking and he mentions his drum kit, most of them assume that everyone else is covered, and its the same with my gear. There was one gig we were playing and the first band brought nothing except their guitars and drum sticks. They hadn't asked us if they could borrow anything, and it came to soundcheck and these assholes were carrying my bass head up to the stage to put onto another bassists cab without asking me or him. Their drummer had set up my drummers cymbals and pedals without him knowing, and was actually playing on them - obnoxiously loud I might add - as his other bandmates set up with everyone elses gear around him. I took my head off of him and asked what gear he was planning on using, and he just shrugged and said the promoter told me where that (my) amp head was. Another band reluctantly had to borrow them all amps, and they used the battered house bass drum and snare with no bass pedal, just a sh*tty crash/ride/hi-hats, and my drummers toms, which delayed the gig. They were also absolutely sh*t, obviously. Totally unprofessional and disrespectful