Lending Gear at gigs

[OldGit]

[quote name='2pods' post='860538' date='Jun 7 2010, 11:31 PM']It can be even worse with the wedding thing we used to do.

End of a good night, getting ready to strip the gear, when a few drunks seem to think if they get their pals to pressure us, I 'll be only too happy to give them my nice Anni 'ray and Trace to abuse.[/quote]

Some tried and tested answers to that one:
Get your bass in it's case, or at least off stage ASAP after the last note, and ...

"sorry mate, it's all unplugged now"
"sorry mate the bride's asked us to stop now"
"sorry mate we're not allowed to play later than this"
"sorry mate, our insurance doesn't cover anyone else playing our gear"
"sorry mate our public liability insurance doesn't cover anyone else on stage"

[OldGit]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='860619' date='Jun 8 2010, 02:00 AM']suggestion time for next time.
Book a venue yourself, invite your friends along to see you.
Invite a couple of other bands you like to support you/play after you. Ask them to bring some friends, decide if you trust them with your kit or ask them to bring their own. Pay them a wee bit.
stick up posters, make a facebook group, press etc
Charge your friends and their friends and the other bands friends and randomers to come see your bands
make it a bit of a spectacle, create a bit of community give out copies of the nice posters you made or something.
make buzz about this night.
have fun, make sure the fella on the door stays sober.
Pay bands, say thank you.
Pay the dude on the door, say thank you.
Pay venue whatever it was you had agreed on to book it out. Find out if they liked it, did they make enough? You have enough friends they probably did.
Book another night.
Look in your hands at the money you made.

Find a cool local band with lots of friends. Find another two. Or maybe convince a non-local band to play that you think are amazing and your friends would like. Maybe you could play yourselves again, or wait a while.
Have another good night. Pay happy bands with money from happy fans, take the profit as a cut for running the thing.

change the music scene of your city[/quote]

Yup You'll then learn what a promoter has to go through 5 nights a week to give your band the opportunity to impress...

but ... by gig number 5 you'll have bands moaning that you are a "c***" "promoter" that doesn't bring a crowd to see them perform their artistry, that you expect them to actually do promotion themselves, bring friends and fans along to see them play [i]every time[/i] and if they don't they don't even get paid, and that your back line is not what they like as an SVT and 8x10 doesn't give them the fine glassy clarity of their Hartke kickback and they aren't tall enough to reach the knobs..

Edited June 8, 2010 by OldGit

[johnnylager]

[quote name='OldGit' post='860701' date='Jun 8 2010, 09:31 AM']...and that your back line is not what they like as an SVT and 8x10 doesn't give them the fine glassy clarity of their Hartke kickback and they aren't tall enough to reach the knobs..[/quote]

[throwoff]

[quote name='johnnylager' post='860709' date='Jun 8 2010, 09:36 AM'][/quote]

+1!

[cheddatom]

Just a couple of comments:

I did work very hard to get my first amp and it was giggable, and I took it to every gig, even when I knew there'd be a better amp to borrow. I would ask nicely and usually borrow the better gear, and I really appreciated it.

I've "shared" my rig at a few gigs, and normally it goes OK, but i've had a couple of guys who seemed really nice, and looked like they were listening to me, and then went and wacked up the low shelf or similar. With my Peavey POS that can put it out of action for an hour or so as it calms down. Some guys just don't seem to care.

I've been playing drums lately. Sharing shells does save a good 5-10 minutes, but, I get nervous sharing my own becuase I know I can't afford to re-skin it (no matter how cheap some of you think skins are).

[neepheid]

Most of the venues I play in have house backline, so I don't need to worry about it. I've had to take my rig on 3 occasions and any sharing's been arranged beforehand, myspace messages and the likes. Our drummer lives a bit out of town so tends to give me a hand with it seeing as he's got the car and passing anyway.

My cab is vastly overrated for my head (will take 600W, is getting 230W max in 8ohm, it's on permanent vacation!) so I'm not worried about it being blown up. No need to get precious about settings - I know my settings, it doesn't take long to get it back if someone's changed them. The only thing I won't tolerate is drinks on top. Thankfully I've never had to intervene yet.

As long as I have a quick chat with the bass players in the other bands first I'm pretty relaxed about it. In general I've had a positive experience - people generally respectful of gear and even complimenting my rig (which is hardly earthshatteringly good, but I guess it's a damn sight better than nothing). I resent assumptions being made about the availability of my equipment for sharing.

I'm just not that into amps. I've come to the conclusion that as long as you can hear yourself on stage then that's half the battle. Tonal nuances are for recording and solo playing. Basses are another thing entirely. There's no way on God's green Earth that I'd loan a stranger one of my basses for a gig.

[pietruszka]

I only let other bass players use my gear if i know them. The 27 Club, Smoove and Turrell and The Soul Jazz Orchestra have used my gear, but they know what theyre doing.

Other wise, I never ever ever let any one even touch my gear. Its expensive, Mark Bass 410 HR and Aguilar AG 500 SC. Will they have the money to replace it, or the promotor take responsibility? I dont think so, so, tough.

I personaly dont buy the sob stories of 'i dont have a car', 'the gear wont fit in the car' etc. I have to take our guitarist and all his gear, all my gear and our singer in one car. If I can do it, so can they.

Also, a side note that sorta links in with this;

Why can guitarists all bring their own amps but bass players have to share?

Dan

[rmshaw37]

can i just add that with these thousands of pounds worth of gear, does it not withstand abuse? thousands of pounds mis spent to me! with all the wattage available you'd be deaf before the amp blew!

the only trouble i've had with not being allowed to borrow backline is normally jumped up tribute bands that are too high and mighty to let anyone touch their gear! they think cause they've spent 20 years playing live they are the only ones who know how to use an amp!then they usually get blown off stage by us! lol

if you dont find out what gear is needed before you go to the gig (by talking to the other bassists in the bands playing that night) then you have seriously never had the shaft with gear! most changeovers in pubs and festivals are SOOO much easier and quicker and ensure your band have a good shot at having a good sound when you go on!

i'm more than happy to lend my gear out if i'm aware of the situation in advance, cause i know it will cope with what i throw at it, so i know it will cope with a more inexperienced player! if i'm told there is a house bass amp, i take my own cause it is without exception, crap!

sorry for the rant, but thats the way its been for the last 10 years on the live pub/ club/ festival rock scene!

maybe its different for muso jazzy sorts

[pietruszka]

[quote name='rmshaw37' post='860848' date='Jun 8 2010, 11:58 AM']can i just add that with these thousands of pounds worth of gear, does it not withstand abuse? thousands of pounds mis spent to me! with all the wattage available you'd be deaf before the amp blew!

the only trouble i've had with not being allowed to borrow backline is normally jumped up tribute bands that are too high and mighty to let anyone touch their gear! they think cause they've spent 20 years playing live they are the only ones who know how to use an amp!then they usually get blown off stage by us! lol

if you dont find out what gear is needed before you go to the gig (by talking to the other bassists in the bands playing that night) then you have seriously never had the shaft with gear! most changeovers in pubs and festivals are SOOO much easier and quicker and ensure your band have a good shot at having a good sound when you go on!

i'm more than happy to lend my gear out if i'm aware of the situation in advance, cause i know it will cope with what i throw at it, so i know it will cope with a more inexperienced player! if i'm told there is a house bass amp, i take my own cause it is without exception, crap!

sorry for the rant, but thats the way its been for the last 10 years on the live pub/ club/ festival rock scene!

maybe its different for muso jazzy sorts[/quote]


Good point. But the issue here is some other bass players generally dont know what theyre doing and can, not always, misuse gear. ie running the gain way too high, putting drinks on top of the vents on te amp etc.

My gear can take being played hard, but ive set it up cos i know what im doing. But I dont trust an inexperience, arrogant gimp from an indie band to have the same approach.

Again, you raise a very good point, but its the potential damage from some bass players out there who think every one else will provide gear for them.


Dan

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='rmshaw37' post='860848' date='Jun 8 2010, 11:58 AM']can i just add that with these thousands of pounds worth of gear, does it not withstand abuse? thousands of pounds mis spent to me! with all the wattage available you'd be deaf before the amp blew![/quote]


You wouldn't test drive a Ferrari and crash it into a brick wall, abuse is abuse. Spending more money on gear can make it sound better, be lighter, better built, more features etc.

What it can't do is protect against some numpty who thinks turning the volume, gain and bass up to the maximum will make him look more rock than anyone else

[D-L-B]

(Pro players aside) Gigging is ultimately a pleasure pursuit for most of us out there. So here's a question.

I want to go kayaking, I can't afford a kayak, if I could afford one I don't have a car to get it to my nearest kayaking hot-spot. Would it be acceptable for me to turn up at said kayaking hot-spot and simply expect to use the kayak of whichever complete stranger I came across first who happens to have their own kayak and transport?

[cheddatom]

[quote name='D-L-B' post='860862' date='Jun 8 2010, 12:08 PM'](Pro players aside) Gigging is ultimately a pleasure pursuit for most of us out there. So here's a question.

I want to go kayaking, I can't afford a kayak, if I could afford one I don't have a car to get it to my nearest kayaking hot-spot. Would it be acceptable for me to turn up at said kayaking hot-spot and simply expect to use the kayak of whichever complete stranger I came across first who happens to have their own kayak and transport? [/quote]

No but you could find out who's kayaking in the same place at the same time and ask nicely if you could borrow their's and promise to take care of it.

[ahpook]

i think this might be the no. 1 in the top ten of basschat topics that get people frothing at the mouth....


hang on...is that an idea for a new thread ?


:wacko:

Edited June 8, 2010 by ahpook

[RhysP]

[quote name='rmshaw37' post='860848' date='Jun 8 2010, 11:58 AM']Can i just add that with these thousands of pounds worth of gear, does it not withstand abuse?[/quote]
It shouldn't have to withstand "abuse", as abuse by definition means it's not being used properly.

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='pietruszka' post='860859' date='Jun 8 2010, 12:05 PM']Good point. But the issue here is some other bass players generally dont know what theyre doing and can, not always, misuse gear. ie running the gain way too high, putting drinks on top of the vents on te amp etc.

My gear can take being played hard, but ive set it up cos i know what im doing. But I dont trust an inexperience, arrogant gimp from an indie band to have the same approach.

Again, you raise a very good point, but its the potential damage from some bass players out there who think every one else will provide gear for them.


Dan[/quote]


That's pretty much it for me. Lots of my gear is currently out on loan to various players. My amp, cab, leads and Gramma pad are being gigged by a mate who i know will look after it. He's loving using it and it's giving him more of an idea about what he wants when he upgrades his Crashdown in the next few weeks. Certainly much more than blasting through a rig in a shop for 10 minutes

Similarly one of my Warwicks is currently with a forumite (until i can be @rsed to pick it up!), i know it's in safe hands and i'm not using it at the moment.

On the other hand i let a kid use my old rig a couple of years ago, he didn't have a clue what the clipping light was for and thought nothing of yanking the jack lead out of his bass and throwing it on the floor, causing a horrible pop sound and then the following loud hum.

That's why i don't lend gear to people i don't know. The OP learnt the hard way unfortunately, he's now £900 out of pocket just because he felt generous towards a fellow musician

[dangerboy]

[quote name='ahpook' post='860870' date='Jun 8 2010, 12:15 PM']i think this might be the no. 1 in the top ten of basschat topics that get people frothing at the mouth....[/quote]

I think it just exposes the fact that we've got bass players here from a bunch of different backgrounds and scenes. And places. The kind of people who never lend, and there are plenty of them, just aren't the kind of people I come across at the little DIY gigs I play. But I also don't meet teenagers who don't know how to use amps.

I also guess a lot of people here don't often gig with the responsible noisy types who sort out a kitshare between all of them beforehand, who are the people I gig with most of the time.

I think if the answer is that you're in a scene where lending is abused, don't lend. But if you're in a scene where lending is expected and respected, do it.

Someone blew up my cab once (well, they broke the voice coil on the driver). I just assumed that there was something wrong with that cab, and that I would probably have blown it myself next gig. No-one's noisier than me!

[ThomBassmonkey]

I have to say, I'm with Rmshaw on this, expensive gear should be able to stand abuse. I was running my GK 700RB-II through one 210RBH and it was struggling, if it had only ever been me using it, I would've dealt with it but to make sure for a) when we didn't have a PA and when other people used it, I got another 210RBH. That being said, with the 2nd 2x10, it's so loud that your head would probably explode before the amp did.

[algmusic]

[quote name='Doddy' post='860280' date='Jun 7 2010, 07:58 PM']I was once doing a gig with my covers band when a bunch of lads turned up and told us that they were
supporting us. Great,no problems-less work for us. However,when they said that the promoter had told them
that they could use our gear,we told them that they couldn't. We'd got another 2 or 3 gigs that week and
didn't want to risk anything. We told them to bring their own gear in and set up in front of us,but they hadn't
brought anything with them other than 2 guitars and a bass.
They went home.

If I'm doing a multi band gig,I always have at least my Roland Cube 100 and a DI box in the car-and that is
only when I'm told that an amp is 'supplied'. Otherwise,I'll take my normal rig. I don't really buy the excuse
that it takes too long to change the gear over. If my band can pull down a full set up of amps,drums,PA etc.,
and be on the road in around half an hour,I'm sure you can change a backline over in minutes.

I don't think it's a lot to ask that you carry your own gear...even if you don't use it. If you want to gig,you
really should have an amp.It doesn't need to be great-hell,my first gigging amp was an old McGregor Keyboard
amp. It might not have been brilliant,but it allowed me to gig until I could afford my first Trace Elliot combo.

Also,drum skins do break..........if you abuse them. If the drummer is playing correctly they can last for a long
time.[/quote]


I agree, I'm a drummer aswell as a bassist. I play very heavy rock to light jazz, and I have never broken a drum skin. On some gigs they can't believe that I'm playing that loud.. ITS BECAUSE PLAY CORRECTLY!!!

On the borrowing amp thing. I've for Markbass LM2 and an orange sp210... the answer is easy..NO (you just have to grow some balls).

On the flip side you can't to borrow someone's gear.. don't be a hypocrite. I bought my rig so I can take in on the tube etc.. also if I'm really lazy, i'll Sansamp it...

I don't lend out my drums much like my girlfriend ;-)

[algmusic]

[quote name='neepheid' post='860843' date='Jun 8 2010, 11:54 AM']Most of the venues I play in have house backline, so I don't need to worry about it. I've had to take my rig on 3 occasions and any sharing's been arranged beforehand, myspace messages and the likes. Our drummer lives a bit out of town so tends to give me a hand with it seeing as he's got the car and passing anyway.

My cab is vastly overrated for my head (will take 600W, is getting 230W max in 8ohm, it's on permanent vacation!) so I'm not worried about it being blown up. No need to get precious about settings - I know my settings, it doesn't take long to get it back if someone's changed them. The only thing I won't tolerate is drinks on top. Thankfully I've never had to intervene yet.

As long as I have a quick chat with the bass players in the other bands first I'm pretty relaxed about it. In general I've had a positive experience - people generally respectful of gear and even complimenting my rig (which is hardly earthshatteringly good, but I guess it's a damn sight better than nothing). I resent assumptions being made about the availability of my equipment for sharing.

I'm just not that into amps. I've come to the conclusion that as long as you can hear yourself on stage then that's half the battle. Tonal nuances are for recording and solo playing. Basses are another thing entirely. There's no way on God's green Earth that I'd loan a stranger one of my basses for a gig.[/quote]

I was playing at bar music hall in london the bloody guitarist put his bear on the edge of his amp, the problem was my EBS cab amd MarkBass head was right behind. I got up on stage and told him to move it, as I couldn't put my cab anywhere esle.

It costs nothing to be "rude" and say move it, but it will cost you a grand or more to replace it if you're polite

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='860905' date='Jun 8 2010, 12:48 PM']I have to say, I'm with Rmshaw on this, expensive gear should be able to stand abuse. I was running my GK 700RB-II through one 210RBH and it was struggling, if it had only ever been me using it, I would've dealt with it but to make sure for a) when we didn't have a PA and when other people used it, I got another 210RBH. That being said, with the 2nd 2x10, it's so loud that your head would probably explode before the amp did.[/quote]


That's not really abuse though, that's just not being loud enough. You can blow an amp no matter how many speakers you have or what the power handling is.

By abuse i mean people who have no clue how to use gear and ignore any guidance they might have been given. Like i said before, the clown who used a rig of mine turned the input gain up so it was permenantly clipping and the speakers were distorting when all he needed to do was move the cab and/or eq differently. Probably heard his guitarist talking about driving the input stage for a better rock tone and thought he'd follow suit. Also unplugging a bass and throwing the lead on the floor was probably fine with his little 15w bedroom combo, not so great with a 500w stack.

It's weird the sense of entitlement some people get when they're using a bigger amp than their own, like it should be able to handle silly levels and put up with all kinds of nonsense. I'm pretty sure some of the people who used my stack cranked it just for the sake of it!

[Ian Savage]

[quote name='algmusic' post='860917' date='Jun 8 2010, 12:54 PM']I was playing at bar music hall in london the bloody guitarist put his bear on the edge of his amp...[/quote]

Bloody hell, that IS taking the piss! Don't blame you for getting a bit grizzly with him...

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='algmusic' post='860917' date='Jun 8 2010, 12:54 PM']I was playing at bar music hall in london the bloody guitarist put his bear on the edge of his amp, the problem was my EBS cab amd MarkBass head was right behind. I got up on stage and told him to move it, as I couldn't put my cab anywhere esle.

It costs nothing to be "rude" and say move it, but it will cost you a grand or more to replace it if you're polite[/quote]


Fupping hell, if someone put a bear next to my amp i'd tell them to move it too!

[D-L-B]

Some people aren't getting the point.
In reference to some of the argument s for lending your gear out. My motorbike is insured and it can also stand a fair bit of 'abuse'. If I take it to a track day, those points make no difference whatsoever to whether or not I would or even should just lend my bike willy nilly to anyone who fancies turning up without their own expecting to use mine for their session. Size 9 Sidi will be rammed right up their jacksie!
You should never be expected to lend gear. End of. It's only become this way due to poor organisation by 'promoters' leaving bands in an awkward position on the night.
I play for fun and I'm very picky about what gigs I'll play these days. I flat refuse to play a gig organised by some 'promoter' who has no affiliation with me or the bands playing and just wants to make a quick buck for as little effort as possible. I also won't play a gig if I don't think I'll get a good sound on the night. Gigging should not be stressful.
Too many bands are so desperate to play a gig, any gig, that they forget why they're doing it in the first place or lose sight of what they're trying to achieve by playing live.
A gig is a gig, some might say. Wrong. It doesn't matter what level you're at, you should always try and give your best performance and that starts with picking the right venues and having the right gear.

[bumfrog]

totally depends on the gig and who I'm playing with. Bunch of friends, they can sodomise my amp in public for my amusment if they want. If I don't know them from adam, I'll decided there and then.

I'm not adverse to it by any means, but then I'm not massively precious about material possessions anyways, life's to short to worry about them imho. If somebody did break my amp on stage and I didn't know them, I'd politely grab their knackers and offer to give them back once they'd paid simple really.

[bootros]

I've lent my amps/cabs and borrowed others on many occasions during multiple band type events - mainly punk/reggae/ska mini festivals. For this type of gig life is so much simpler if the bass gear and majority of the drums are shared. I know that a change over between bands should only take 10 mins but it rarely does and the gig goes a bit dry if each band has to sound check in full. Bear in mind these types of gigs rarely have fantastic sound engineers that can successfully tailor the sound on the fly.

Any loan of gear is based on the understanding that if it is misused you may well see me onstage either unplugging you or turning a few knobs and if any abuse continues then said bass player will be exiting stage left with my foot up his/her backside. No negotiating. Horses for courses though, the types of gig you play should help inform your choice of amp and the risks involved.