What the ecky thump is this?

[Gust0o]

Guys, wondering if I might pick your brains here.

My old friend Ed dropped this around tonight. It came in a very vintage bag, which should have been the first hint. Inside the bass was dirty, with the strings rusting to the nut. However, for all it's flaws, it certainly was intriguing.

I've given it a clean, and removed the bulk of the filth. The nut has cracked, unsurprisingly, but the rest has come through intact.

So, just what on earth is it? No manufacturer markings that I can see - some very rough routing under the control panel, hinting at a home-made origin, perhaps.













The pickup works, though the tone and volume pots work only when they want. The switch marked 'on/off' doesn't appear to do anything. It's very light, ridiculously so. No idea how the neck was attached, it almost appears to have been glued on and then sealed over.

Any thoughts?

[Mr. Foxen]

Looks like a Jet King, which is a new issue based on the Ibanez Rhythm maker, so maybe it is one of those. Not finding a pic. Waitin on Bassassin.

[Jerry_B]

Rather nice!

[Gust0o]

This thing has 'old' written all over it - not sure how long his dad had it, but it's just done the last decade in a garage I'm told and was owned for some time before that. Always a risk of exaggeration, but it does appear to have some years under it's belt.

Put some flats on it and it sounds very funky. Muting felt under the plate is a nice touch.

[throwoff]

this is exactly the kinds of thing im looking for the flip and use in a grunge band lefthanded!

[7string]

Very cool.

I like the idea of these basses coming back into service after years locked away.

[Gust0o]

There's no truss rod

[Stacker]

I'd hazard a guess and say a Russki model, made by Tonika.

[Dom in Dorset]

despite the lack of truss rod it looks far too stylish to be a Tonika! Check out some of the delights here:
[url="http://www.junkguitars.com/pictures.html"]http://www.junkguitars.com/pictures.html[/url]

[BigRedX]

Lack of a truss rod on an old bass doesn't necessarily indicate lack of quality. My early 60s Burns doesn't have a truss rod and there's only a tad more relief in the neck than I would prefer.

I'll second the opinion that its original that the Ibanez Jet King is based on, but we'll need Bassassin to know for sure.

[Gust0o]

There's a slight bend in the neck, and my "huh?" moment came when reaching to check the truss rod to resolve it - neck is very, very light. It feels almost insubstantial, but yet is a good player now I've cleaned all the crap from the the fretboard.

I can see the Jet King resemblance, thanks to everyone who pointed this out:



I've ordered a new nut and strings. Not sure on the bridge cover, that was definitely a bodge effort on someone's part. The tuners appear to be guitar tuners, to these eyes. Not sure if I'll strip them to clean or try and find new ones. Probably the former.

[Bassassin]

It's an early 60s JapCrap no-namer similar to the Ibanezes of this era which the Jet Kings are based on:

[url="http://www.ibanez.co.jp/anniversary/expansion.php?cat_id=335&now=2"]http://www.ibanez.co.jp/anniversary/expans...d=335&now=2[/url]



Looks a lot like the middle one to me, which is an Ibanez 1250 from 1960, according to this site: [url="http://www.sixties-ibanez.com/"]http://www.sixties-ibanez.com/[/url]

Has it ever had a badge on it? There would be two pinholes on the headstock where a metal badge was attached to it, if so it might have been an Ibanez. However stuff like this was sold with various names, and frequently with no name at all, so unless there's a badge, or an identifiable marking where one has been, there's no telling what it was. Can't really say who might have made this either, it's not clear which factory built early Ibanez or similar instruments.

However, it's a very rare old JapCrap relic & as such pretty collectable to some folks - so if that matters to you, do any cleaning/restoration with utmost care, and if any parts are missing or need to be replaced, avoid irreversible modifications, and keep the old bits!

I don't know all that much about 60s JapCrap, so it might be worth asking either on the Ibanez Collectors forum's 60s board:

[url="http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/forum/50s-and-60s-world/"]http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/forum/50s-and-60s-world/[/url]

Or the JapCrap board at [url="http://www.vintaxe.com/forum"]http://www.vintaxe.com/forum[/url]

And if you don't want it, I have a crisp tenner for you...

Jon.

[tayste_2000]

I'll give you a crisp and a tenner for it cheese and onion? or salt an vinegar?

[Gust0o]

Wow, thanks Jon - that's certainly good to know!

That middle one is almost a bloody mirror. Only slight change being the tuners on the version I have. No sign of drill holes from memory, but wife is at home and checking. Looking at it, the front of the headstock almost looks refinished in places, which might have eradicated any evidence.

No intention on replacing anything, really. Tuners are slightly corroded, but I don't fancy swapping them. The only thing it really needs is a new nut, as the old one is broken (see pic - broken at the E-string), to get it back playing.

Will post on those forums you've linked me to, see if there are any additional comments. Am I telling Ed he's sitting on a goldmine with this one?

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Gust0o' post='861033' date='Jun 8 2010, 02:33 PM']Will post on those forums you've linked me to, see if there are any additional comments. Am I telling Ed he's sitting on a goldmine with this one?[/quote]
It's hard to say. A little tin badge reading "Ibanez" would certainly help, but it's worth a bit more than that tenner, I'd expect. Things like this don't really come up enough to have much of an informed idea but if I was Ebaying it I'd probably hope for at least £150, and possibly a fair bit more depending on how good I could make it look in the pics! So not exactly a goldmine, but certainly better than a poke with a sh!tty stick.

J.

[tino]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='861353' date='Jun 8 2010, 07:07 PM']It's hard to say. A little tin badge reading "Ibanez" would certainly help, but it's worth a bit more than that tenner, I'd expect. Things like this don't really come up enough to have much of an informed idea but if I was Ebaying it I'd probably hope for at least £150, and possibly a fair bit more depending on how good I could make it look in the pics! So not exactly a goldmine, but certainly better than a poke with a sh!tty stick.

J.[/quote]
Looks a bit Woolworths....wasit Audition or some such???
Just like my six string fing

Edited June 8, 2010 by tino

[Gust0o]

Well, it appears a little better than a poke with a sh*tty stick - tempting as that was!

The verdict from the Ibanez forums seems to be that this is a real gem of a find. Rare model, good nick (considering!) and the original soft case to boot - all making for one very happy tale.

Value would be c.£200, allowing for the usual fluctuations of forums and Ebay. Would push £250 with the Ibanez badge... which it doesn't have, so it's totally moot!

This [i]is[/i] an Ibanez 1250, from 1960 or 1961. Made for Ibanez by Tokyo Sound Corp and possibly branded as Guyatone in the absense of the Ibanez badging. All the parts appear to be original

Points to Mr Bassassin for hitting the nail on the head. Again!

Nut arrived this morning. On my list of things to do this weekend, but we'll see - I have a new puppy, decorating, and the World Cup to contend with. Should have some pics and vids in the next few weeks to show how it came back to life. Thanks for the help!

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Gust0o' post='861993' date='Jun 9 2010, 12:28 PM']This [i]is[/i] an Ibanez 1250, from 1960 or 1961. Made for Ibanez by Tokyo Sound Corp and possibly branded as Guyatone in the absense of the Ibanez badging.[/quote]
There are a [i]lot[/i] of opinions knocking about on ICW, but the trouble is many of the posters over there don't know/care a great deal about brands other than Ibanez. There's no empirical evidence to connect the very early instruments to any particular factory & unearthing the history of early MIJ guitars requires a [i]much[/i] broader view & open mind than many single-brand enthusiasts have.

I stand by my earlier position that while this is the same instrument as the Ibby 1250, unless it actually says Ibanez on it, or we can see that an Ibanez badge has once be on it, then it simply isn't one. Ibanez is only a brand name, and most of the 60s & 70s Ibanez models frequently turn up with various other names, or with no name, because the factories would happily sell to anyone.

There's far too little information about these very old instruments to be able to connect them to one factory or brand at this point - and ironically on ICW you'll find any number of posters who (correctly!) maintain that if it doesn't say Ibanez, then it isn't one, no matter how much you might want it to be! They've even coined a name for the no-brand & other brand guitars that people frequently claim to be vintage Ibbys - "Imaginez"!

Looks like I gave you the wrong URL for the Vintaxe forum - it should be: [url="http://www.vintaxe.com/boards/index.php"]http://www.vintaxe.com/boards/index.php[/url] You might get a little more insight from there, there are a lot of 60s MIJ collectors there, plus the guy who runs the site has a massive archive of vintage catalogues & frequently is able to ID & date unusual instruments.

J.

[Gust0o]

Sorry, perhaps I should have said it [i]is[/i] a 1250, which would have been more accurate. As noted, it doesn't show any evidence of the metal badge - and they had suggested Guyatone as an alternative brand.

I'm none too fussed, to be honest. I'm just happy to be uncovering where and when it came from

Vintaxe wouldn't load when I first looked, but did manage to find my way to it's forums - I got my registration approved today, so I'll posting shortly.

Wouldn't mind your opinion on a further issue. How would these have been stringed originally? Assuming a light gauge for the set neck, but flat, round or something else?

Thanks for your help so far, very much appreciated at this end

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Gust0o' post='862679' date='Jun 9 2010, 10:08 PM']Wouldn't mind your opinion on a further issue. How would these have been stringed originally? Assuming a light gauge for the set neck, but flat, round or something else?

Thanks for your help so far, very much appreciated at this end [/quote]
Happy to help & pass around what little I know. Knowledge is power, or something.

Anyway, flats, definitely. I think Entwistle popularised the use of rounds on bass & The Who weren't around when this was built.

Besides, flats are typically lower tension than rounds, and on a bass with no truss rod & a delicate-looking neck/body joint, you won't want much tension!

J.