How far do you travel for gigs?

[chris_b]

[quote name='Jase' post='94971' date='Nov 27 2007, 11:09 AM']I think it's important musicians get paid for what they do whether they're a covers or an original band. I can't stomach these venues/promoters who expect bands to fork out to play [/quote]
I agree. The bands who play for nothing, or pay to play, make it difficult for the rest of us who insist on payment for our services.

[Jase]

[quote name='chris_b' post='94989' date='Nov 27 2007, 11:42 AM']Including the lazy promoters who expect you to bring your own audience and sell your own tickets!!![/quote]


Yep.

[john_the_bass]

[quote name='chris_b' post='95021' date='Nov 27 2007, 12:43 PM']I agree. The bands who play for nothing, or pay to play, make it difficult for the rest of us who insist on payment for our services.[/quote]

you are taking the piss aren't you?
I agree on the paying to play - I would never do that, but sometimes my original band has to play for nothing or we would have a limit to the number of places we could play.

At our level, and I am sure there are plenty more out there, it's more about raising the profile of your band than earning any money out of it.
I'm not going to drive halfway across the country for free, but I'll travel the same distance I'd be prepared to travel for a night out for an unpaid originals gig.

[chris_b]

[quote name='john_the_bass' post='95024' date='Nov 27 2007, 12:48 PM']At our level, and I am sure there are plenty more out there, it's more about raising the profile of your band than earning any money out of it.[/quote]
I understand your rationale, but, unfortunately, the message that the greedy promoter sees is, originals bands will play for very little or nothing at all. I don't know anyone who does that in the blues, soul, covers band field, consequently we all get paid. But I do meet promoters who think that because you guys play for next to nothing, we all should!

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='chris_b' post='95036' date='Nov 27 2007, 01:07 PM']I understand your rationale, but, unfortunately, the message that the greedy promoter sees is, originals bands will play for very little or nothing at all. I don't know anyone who does that in the blues, soul, covers band field, consequently we all get paid. But I do meet promoters who think that because you guys play for next to nothing, we all should![/quote]

What applies to one scene doesn't neccessarily apply to another.

An originals band (or any band, for that matter) might want to travel to a gig for very little money. Personally, if they want to do that, I see no problem with it.

[Jase]

Wateroftyne is right, promoters are now expecting to get a band for next to nothing, covers or original and I'm sorry but It's just wrong.

The bands that gig for feck all make it extremely difficult for bands (like mine and many others) to make any sort of decent wage.

Don't get me wrong I'm on the players side, musicians need paying just like anybody else.

[Wil]

Where's this money going to come from, though? Charging enough to pay orignals bands on a showcase night a decent whack is going to dissuade even more punters from going to gigs, and with the state of things at the moment, its hard enough to get people out to watch a band on a weeknight as it is.

I play for the enjoyment, I couldn't care less if we only get paid petrol, providing there is a decent crowd there.

[NJW]

I've travelled from Dundee, via Glasgow, to London... played in Camden... packed up... driven home again, with no sleep inbetween.

That was rubbish.

Other than that, we've played pretty much everywhere around the country and always get paid enough for fuel and food and that's about all we expect.

[john_the_bass]

i agree it is subject to the scene that you play in

in our scene if you want punters to come, you play in a venue with no admission fee - therefore you don't get paid.
if it lets me showcase my stuff, the so be it.

[Jase]

[quote name='Wil' post='95094' date='Nov 27 2007, 02:22 PM']Where's this money going to come from, though? Charging enough to pay orignals bands on a showcase night a decent whack is going to dissuade even more punters from going to gigs, and with the state of things at the moment, its hard enough to get people out to watch a band on a weeknight as it is.

I play for the enjoyment, I couldn't care less if we only get paid petrol, providing there is a decent crowd there.[/quote]


Agreed, venues are pretty quiet at the moment and being a smoker myself I blame the smoking ban! Plus the fact that even if there are real good bands around most of good old Great Britain just can't be bothered to support live music. I reckon monies should come from ticket/door fees not by charging a huge amount but something that reflects what you're going to get...which in many cases is good live music.

Here's an example of what it costs to get us to a gig over the bridge....40 quid diesel and 10 quid for the toll, not to mention insurance and tax (which is taken out of the gig fee, we take 10 quid each gig to keep in a van fund) Also bare in mind phone costs looking for gigs, rehearsal space when we need it, strings, sticks and skins there's also the occasional cost of PA and amp repair. It all adds up this is why I reckon musicians and bands deserve payment.

Rant over

[16Again]

The band i'm in (punk covers) travel about a max of 100 miles and usually for about £50 but we only play for about 1 hour and get to support 'name' bands pretty often and have met some really cool people. We just treat away day gigs like a drunken break from the same old routine.
To me its just about the fun of playing live.

[Jase]

[quote name='16Again' post='95141' date='Nov 27 2007, 03:42 PM']The band i'm in (punk covers) travel about a max of 100 miles and usually for about £50 but we only play for about 1 hour and get to support 'name' bands pretty often and have met some really cool people. We just treat away day gigs like a drunken break from the same old routine.
To me its just about the fun of playing live.[/quote]


That's good though, £50 It's not about the huge amounts of cash, your band got 50 quid for a support the point is someone respected the fact you played, I reckon that's good.

[Phaedrus]

Isn't an originals band akin to an entrepreneur attempting to get his product/service out into the market place?

He wouldn't (shouldn't) expect to get paid from the outset for his product/service by people who have no clue what it is or how good/bad it is.

He has to give it away for free till enough people start to decide they'd be happy to pay for it. His business plan and relevant business loan has (should have) taken all that into account.

A covers band seems to me more like the retailer flogging established products. As such they should expect to get paid accordingly, whether the start-up originals band gets paid or not.

Of course, once the entrepreneur's product/service catches on and he hits the big time, it's him rather than the retailer who'll be the millionaire.


Mark

[Alun]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='94454' date='Nov 26 2007, 11:38 AM']I guess the answer is ' as far as is economical'. If someone will pay me to play in Australia and will fully fund the trip, I'll do it. If it costs more to travel there than I get paid, it would have to be a REALLY special gig (I have done good gigs for nothing if the music works but I wouldn't do a commercial gig that left me out of pocket). I did a jazz ferstival in Vienne (nr Lyon) once - all expenses paid but no profit margin. Great experience.[/quote]

Exactly the same here, even down to doing Vienne for expenses It's a great festival to play at.

Cheers,
Alun

[Jase]

[quote name='Phaedrus' post='95176' date='Nov 27 2007, 04:42 PM']Isn't an originals band akin to an entrepreneur attempting to get his product/service out into the market place?

He wouldn't (shouldn't) expect to get paid from the outset for his product/service by people who have no clue what it is or how good/bad it is.

He has to give it away for free till enough people start to decide they'd be happy to pay for it. His business plan and relevant business loan has (should have) taken all that into account.

A covers band seems to me more like the retailer flogging established products. As such they should expect to get paid accordingly, whether the start-up originals band gets paid or not.

Of course, once the entrepreneur's product/service catches on and he hits the big time, it's him rather than the retailer who'll be the millionaire.


Mark[/quote]


I dunno, that's the gamble I suppose with music, paying for something you have no Idea is good or bad, could be great one night, the next a bag of sh*te.

Generally though bands on the live scene wanting to be paid are pretty good in my opinion.

[Breakfast]

Most originals bands are rubbish, including most of the ones I've been in.

Once you've built up your reputation a bit you can start expecting to be paid for playing, but while you're trying to get a name for yourself there's no point- no bastard is going to pay to see a band they have never heard of who have a 95% chance of being rubbish. The best option is to be playing on nights where the promoter is a bit choosy and the night gets a reputation on it's own merit, and even then you need some better known bands on the bill if there is to be an audience.

If you're paying covers you already have that familliar product so punters know what they are getting and are more ready to pay for it. Rightly so, in my opinion.

[Wil]

[quote name='Breakfast' post='95350' date='Nov 27 2007, 10:22 PM']Most originals bands are rubbish, including most of the ones I've been in.

Once you've built up your reputation a bit you can start expecting to be paid for playing, but while you're trying to get a name for yourself there's no point- no bastard is going to pay to see a band they have never heard of who have a 95% chance of being rubbish. The best option is to be playing on nights where the promoter is a bit choosy and the night gets a reputation on it's own merit, and even then you need some better known bands on the bill if there is to be an audience.

If you're paying covers you already have that familliar product so punters know what they are getting and are more ready to pay for it. Rightly so, in my opinion.[/quote]

Er, what?

There are tons of brilliant originals bands! A lot of my favourite bands are unsigned or signed to small labels and tour the UK. If I go to see a band showcase, there are usually a couple of good bands on. You get the occasional ropey one, but not all the time! How would you ever discover new bands if you didn't go to gigs?

[Jase]

[quote name='Wil' post='95375' date='Nov 27 2007, 10:48 PM']Er, what?

There are tons of brilliant originals bands! A lot of my favourite bands are unsigned or signed to small labels and tour the UK. If I go to see a band showcase, there are usually a couple of good bands on. You get the occasional ropey one, but not all the time! How would you ever discover new bands if you didn't go to gigs?[/quote]

Just what I was thinking, totally agree....here's a couple of good ones:

[url="http://www.myspace.com/paulzervas"]http://www.myspace.com/paulzervas[/url]
[url="http://www.myspace.com/tanyawalker"]http://www.myspace.com/tanyawalker[/url]
[url="http://www.myspace.com/mikepinch"]http://www.myspace.com/mikepinch[/url]
[url="http://www.myspace.com/byebyedoll"]http://www.myspace.com/byebyedoll[/url]

Good bands/musicians do exist

[jwbassman]

Interesting thread this one...

I voted for 1 hour because in my (big)band, which I guess is classed as covers as we don't play any original material and albeit a very different genre to most of you guys, I have the responsibility to set up the PA (it's all my gear and for my sins I make us sound as good as I can) means I'm usually there at least an hour before the rest of the band so having to drive more than an hour to get there makes it a very long gig for me.

In respect of the being paid to play it's unusual for us to get more than expenses, maybe £10 each (there are 18 of us in the band) if we have a few punters in, we charge a modest £4 on the door for over 2 hours of very good quality music, there is the odd exception to this but they are few and far between.

I guess it all comes down to our individual situations, I certainly don't play in the bigband for the money, but there are other gigs (pit/show work) I take because they pay reasonably well and other gigs I'd do for nothing depending upon the situation. I guess I'm lucky in that I have a day job and any cash I get for playing is a bonus and it also means that the music I do tends to pay for itself, which is nice. If I had to make a full time living out of playing (which I did for a short while) I'm sure I'd have a different take on it...

[Wil]

Definitely! Here are a few of my faves who I got into just by happening upon their gigs - mainly ska and dub hop:

[url="http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=9095499"]The Scrub[/url]

[url="http://www.myspace.com/sonicboomsix"]Sonic Boom Six[/url]

[url="http://www.myspace.com/badscience"]Bad Science[/url]

[Breakfast]

[quote]There are tons of brilliant originals bands! A lot of my favourite bands are unsigned or signed to small labels and tour the UK. If I go to see a band showcase, there are usually a couple of good bands on. You get the occasional ropey one, but not all the time! How would you ever discover new bands if you didn't go to gigs?[/quote]
I've only ever played in originals band and never wanted to play covers, and I completely agree that there are some utterly stunning unsigned and small label bands out there. However, having played somewhere in the range of 50-100 gigs with an originals band over the last four years or so, pretty much all on mixed lineup small band nights, most of the bands I have seen have been terrible.

There have been some outstanding ones, certainly, and some very competent bands that I just didn't like, but they were absolutely in the minority. Most originals bands combine hypothetical musicianship and woeful performance with a laudably avante-garde contempt for the tune. Any one of those three would be enough for an enjoyable set, but the combination of the three - typically combined with a "turn it all up to eleven" sound engineer- has made for some very tiresome nights.

It may be that having seen many excellent bands down the years has set my standards ridiculously high or something- I don't know- but there are relatively few small/unsigned artists that I have seen before and I would pay to go and see again.

[Phaedrus]

I suppose this is a bit of a digression from the OP topic but IMO, it's the crap originals bands that are clogging "it" all up and making it harder to find the better bands.

How are you going to spot a nice flower in a field full of weeds & nettles?

I certainly don't want to waste my time and hurt my ears by enduring 90% tripe in the hope that I'll come accross the good 10%.

Of course , this is all down to taste - what I consider a waste of my time may be someone else's best-thing-since-sliced-bread.

The way I look at new bands is this: if it's to my taste, it'll eventually come into my radar. Someone somewhere will tell me, "hey I heard of a great band you'd like!"

There are also many bands that have made the big time which IMO should never have even been formed, and like I said, they're making it harder for quality bands to cut through. But I guess that's just how it is, eh?

Arctic Monkeys? - GLOBALLY HUGE.

The Mew? Who's heard of them?

No offence to Monkeys fans - I simply mean that The Monkeys are not to my taste, yet they've made the big time, while The Mew (amazing melodies & harmonies, great arrangements, very unique sound that's very much to my taste), just as one example, are barely known.

There seems to be different motivations and incentives for getting into a band or music. I mean, is it likely that Supertramp & 10CC & Toto got together for the same reasons as Arctic Monkeys & Hard Fi & Just Jack?

To me, the guys from bands like Supertramp & 10CC & Toto (as examples) got into it because they were naturally gifted as great singers, musicians & songwriters - almost born or destined to do it, like Schumacher was born to drive F1 and Beckham was born to play GAA.

Does that mean there's no room for Go-Kart racing and indoor 5-a-side? Of course not, but who wants to watch Go-Kart racing when F1 is so much more exciting ?

I've come accross some of my favourite new (or new-to-me) bands completely by accident - I've listened to a song I've been looking for on radioblogclub.com and that song has lead on into a great song I've never heard before. I heard Duvet by Boa like that, The Decision by The Young Knives, Film by Aphex Twin and loads more.


Mark

Edited November 28, 2007 by Phaedrus

[Wil]

I wouldn't take anything recommended by NME or other such toilet paper seriously, but if I have a browse of the Punktastic forum for example, I can read about loads of small time bands people have seen and recommended. 90% of the bands there won't be "big" in terms of record sales, or exposure, but there's still a big scene with word of mouth behind it.

[Jazzman]

I live in Huddersfield, and I'm playing in Hull, Loughborough and Dewsbury this weekend. That's 6 hours for 3 gigs. During the rest of december I've even further to go - London, Essex, Coventry, Cheltenham, Bristol, Walsall, Telford, Cornwall! And I work full time in an office too...

It's ok if the money's right!

[elom]

Interesting how the responses seem to gravitate towards 1 hour and more than 2 hours. I suppose that makes sense though, some people will have a limit and others wont.

For us (pub covers band) we have one minimum fee within Devon and a slightly higher minimum fee outside Devon. The question is how far we would go for that fee. At the moment we have a 1 hour limit. I could get more gigs if I could push that limit but a couple of the guys are reluctant and I suppose we are reasonably busy as it is anyway.