Another set up question

[cameltoe]

I'm trying to get a nice low action that doesn't slap against the frets when I play. I'm still a bit of a beginner and actually find it quite physically challenging if my action is too high.

I recently traded a Fret-King perception that had a lovely low action and didn't slap at all when I played it. The guitar itself was too awkward feeling for me so I had to pass it on.

I've also recently tried a Musicman Stingray, and a G&L L-2000 that both had really low, flat actions and neither of those slapped against the frets either.

My Road Worn Precision, which currently is still in the shop waiting for my girlfriend to pick it up, also has a lovely low action that doesn't require hardly any strength to fret the strings, although there was a bit more fret slap when I really dug in.

I also used to use my girlfriend's brothers Rickenbacker, which had a lovely low action all the way up the neck and never slapped at all.

How is this acheivable?

I like to set my guitars up myself, but I'll only make minor adjustments to the truss rod, and I can't figure out how to get this low action without it sounding like I'm playing slap bass when I'm just using fingerstyle. It sounds horrible!

I find too much relief means I can't get the action low enough, and too little relief means it slaps like mad. Obviously I need a little relief to allow the strings to vibrate, but I usually find the strings are slapping at the last fret which means the saddles are set too low- but then how have I played guitars in the past that have had a really low bridge and not slapped? The only thing I can think is if the neck angle is different. The Fret King did look as if the neck very slightly lent backwards, and I've read before on Fender's site that if you can't get the action as low as you'd like then use the Micro-Tilt (which I don't have )

The G&L and the Fret King necks felt absolutely identical, btw, and maybe it's more than coincidence that they have the same headstock? Could JHS be buying up surplus stock?

I will send my guitars to be set up by a pro, but ideally I'd like to figure out what to do myself. One of my guitars is a £40 Aria Jazz that I keep knocking about so it's not really worth the £50+ to have it worked over.

Yes I've follwed Fender's setting up guide word for word

[Mr. Foxen]

Does this have lighter strings? They move more. Also, is your plucking position moved due to shape of the bass?

[mep]

In the January issue of Bass Guitar Magazine there was a vey good article on setting up your bass. It was very well written and very extensive. I photocopy the article and give it to all my students so they will always be able to set up their bass in the future.

[thepurpleblob]

Are you absolutely sure the truss rod adjustment is correct? I understand your reluctance to move it too much but if it is wrong it is wrong and you'll never achieve a low action.

[Ballie]

I prefer to set up my basses myself, that way I can have it exactly the way I want and save a bit of cash. Recently put my bass into a very well respected shop for a fret job and setup. Fret job was perfect, the setup not what I had in mind. I ended up having to set the action and intonation myself again to suit my playing.

Gary Willis has a great setup guide on his website:

[url="http://garywillis.com/pages/bass/bassmanual/setupmanual.html"]http://garywillis.com/pages/bass/bassmanual/setupmanual.html[/url]

Check out Gary Willis' ramp too, it's an awesome concept. I use a ramp all the time now and it's made things a lot easier.

Hope this helps,

J

[cameltoe]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='861487' date='Jun 8 2010, 09:11 PM']Does this have lighter strings? They move more. Also, is your plucking position moved due to shape of the bass?[/quote]


Not sure about the strings, they didn't feel too different.

On the Fret King the plucking position was the same, but as I use the pickup as a thumb rest then it probably did shift about on the others.

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='861521' date='Jun 8 2010, 09:29 PM']Are you absolutely sure the truss rod adjustment is correct? I understand your reluctance to move it too much but if it is wrong it is wrong and you'll never achieve a low action.[/quote]

I'm not sure I've ever got it spot on- I've followed Fenders guide in the past and got it as close as I can to the .35 they recommend on the feeler gauges

even then I'm not convinced that it can be set in stone for a particular bass.

Pretty much every budget and midrange bass I try always seems to have too much relief in the neck, if you follow fenders guide anyway. The G&L, Musicman, and Fret King all had a lot straighter necks than some of the cheaper basses I've tried in recent weeks, notably Squier Classic Vibe Precision and Jazzes (including my 50's P) and The Classic 50's MIM Precision.

These are usually set up fairly well out of the box aren't they? I would put it down to personal preference if I hadn't;

a) set up a few basses to fenders specs and seen how straight they recommend the necks should be and;
tried more expensive basses with much straighter necks that are consequently much nicer to play.

In all the more expensive basses, the action doesn't seem to get any higher or lower along the length of the neck, which to me suggests not much relief. On the others you can see the action is higher in the middle of the neck.

Maybe I'm just making a complete pigs ear of it all!

There's probably a very small 'sweet spot' in the truss rod adjustment that so far I've been incapable of hitting.

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='cameltoe' post='861541' date='Jun 8 2010, 09:46 PM']Not sure about the strings, they didn't feel too different.

On the Fret King the plucking position was the same, but as I use the pickup as a thumb rest then it probably did shift about on the others.



I'm not sure I've ever got it spot on- I've followed Fenders guide in the past and got it as close as I can to the .35 they recommend on the feeler gauges

even then I'm not convinced that it can be set in stone for a particular bass.

Pretty much every budget and midrange bass I try always seems to have too much relief in the neck, if you follow fenders guide anyway. The G&L, Musicman, and Fret King all had a lot straighter necks than some of the cheaper basses I've tried in recent weeks, notably Squier Classic Vibe Precision and Jazzes (including my 50's P) and The Classic 50's MIM Precision.

These are usually set up fairly well out of the box aren't they? I would put it down to personal preference if I hadn't;

a) set up a few basses to fenders specs and seen how straight they recommend the necks should be and;
tried more expensive basses with much straighter necks that are consequently much nicer to play.

In all the more expensive basses, the action doesn't seem to get any higher or lower along the length of the neck, which to me suggests not much relief. On the others you can see the action is higher in the middle of the neck.

Maybe I'm just making a complete pigs ear of it all!

There's probably a very small 'sweet spot' in the truss rod adjustment that so far I've been incapable of hitting.[/quote]

Welll.... just looking at my StingRay. Fretting at both the first and last fret there is *just* some fresh air under the strings at the 12th fret. You can tap it down and hear a click but the travel is tiny. Looking at the saddle adjustment - the E string is only just clear of the first fret but must be about 5mm clear by the 21st. Obviously the movement is much bigger in the middle than at the ends, so this is to be expected. Also consider that the strings have to be set up individually as the neck has a curvature. You should see that reflected in the saddle heights. You can get or make a guage but I've never seen the point. You get it as low as you want it until it rattles then you've gone too far.

Also note that if you get too low you kill the sustain stone dead.

[johnnylager]

I found Fenders guide a bit sh*te, to be honest - try these...

[url="http://finnbass.com/showthread.php?t=2340"]List of online set-up guides[/url]




If you're still having trouble, the nut may not be cut right - too high & the action will be too high, too low & it will buzz. If you are unsure about nuts [sic], get a shop to look.

Edited June 8, 2010 by johnnylager

[Al Heeley]

There's only 3 things to get sorted:
1) Nut height (or slot depth if you like)
2) Neck bow (action, truss rod)
3) Saddle height

Start with nut height, if this is wrong then as jonnylager says, best get a pro to sort for you. Fret at the 5th fret and check string clearance at 1st fret. There should be only the thinnnest clearance between string and 1st fret so you can move it a fraction and hear it tap. If it is more than 1/2 a credit card thickness the slot depth is not enough.

Truss rod action - smallest bit of relief is good - check by fretting 1st or 3rd and 17th or 20th and check theres still a minute bit of clearance on fret at halfway, the thickness of a piece of paper or two.
Then the easy bit - adjust saddles to get a tiny bit of fret buzz, then raise them a fraction.

You then need to quickly check each fret and each note to see if your frets are all nice and level. If only one or 2 are buzzing then thats a quick wet'n'dry job by a pro if you want to get it perfect.

Don't worry about fret buzz when playing unplugged - we all tend to play much harder as its quiet, check it plugged in and try to play same feel as when playing a song live.

[tom1946]

It doesn't matter how well you set the saddles, relief or nut if you have a slightly raised or improperly seated fret it's gonna either buzz or be too high for comfort.

imo of course.

[tino]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='861622' date='Jun 8 2010, 11:04 PM']There's only 3 things to get sorted:
1) Nut height (or slot depth if you like)
2) Neck bow (action, truss rod)
3) Saddle height

Start with nut height, if this is wrong then as jonnylager says, best get a pro to sort for you. Fret at the 5th fret and check string clearance at 1st fret. There should be only the thinnnest clearance between string and 1st fret so you can move it a fraction and hear it tap. If it is more than 1/2 a credit card thickness the slot depth is not enough.

Truss rod action - smallest bit of relief is good - check by fretting 1st or 3rd and 17th or 20th and check theres still a minute bit of clearance on fret at halfway, the thickness of a piece of paper or two.
Then the easy bit - adjust saddles to get a tiny bit of fret buzz, then raise them a fraction.

You then need to quickly check each fret and each note to see if your frets are all nice and level. If only one or 2 are buzzing then thats a quick wet'n'dry job by a pro if you want to get it perfect.

Don't worry about fret buzz when playing unplugged - we all tend to play much harder as its quiet, check it plugged in and try to play same feel as when playing a song live.[/quote]
And on completion you suddenly realise the intonations not right

[Al Heeley]

intonation? Gopod grief, its a bass sir, what use have we of such finery?!

[cameltoe]

Cheers guys. I'll use these guides and advice and give it a tweak today.

If I can't get on with it then I'll nip it down to a pro.