Double Bass Buying Guide

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='guyl' post='155212' date='Mar 11 2008, 12:05 PM']Hits the nail on the head. I reckon Ray Brown would've swung pretty good if he ever played on my cheap doghouse!![/quote]
That much is certain.

[Owen]

In a sensitive unamplified trio situation, or a solo recital you 100% could hear the difference. In an amplified situation with some noisy brass or guitars or somesuch - a £500 bass would not sound 100 times worse than a £50K bass - and the tone is as much to do with your pick-up and rig as your bass.

So, to summarise - a more expensive bass, with the right strings for your style and well set-up is lusher than a lush thing, however, a cheap bass with the right strings for your style and well set-up, while not being as lush as a more expensive one, it is not necessarily un-lush.

Ahhhhhhh I can feel a virtual hug coming on Feel the love people!


[quote name='jakesbass' post='155203' date='Mar 11 2008, 11:46 AM']For what its worth I've been playing Double for 27 years professionally for 17 and I've had similar experiences regarding buying and selling as you. As it happens, I agree with most of your post and in fact I think the pricing by dealers is bordering on criminal, is not based on demand as they have lots of them stockpiled and in many cases can't shift them, and it serves as a bar to young players getting started on something decent. The only point at which I think its worth having a high financial value on a bass is to make people look after them so they last a long time, we are after all, only temporary keepers, not owners.
Cheaper basses [i]are[/i] getting better but they don't compare to hand carved instruments, (I've played basses from £250-£50,000) and I don't agree about people not being able to tell the difference. They may not really notice if your tone is average or below, but they [i]do[/i] notice if its enourmous and lovely sounding.
While we agree on most things in this thread I think the single most impotant thing those of us who are more experienced should offer as advice to the uninitiated is, try lots of basses and find one that suits your playing, feels comfortable, and sounds like you want it to sound.
If you can get all that for £500, great.
Jake

Edit:
"Also not all instruments hold their value and certainly do not appreciate. The market is driven by age and condition NOT exclusively how well an instrument plays. You could have a great instrument that responds like no other. If you have a large repaired crack in it then it's value drops immediately. I am selling a 1880 (ish) 'cello at the moment. It sounds good and plays easily. It is valued by a reputable dealer at £4K. It has had a neck snap, well-repaired and rock solid for at least a quarter of a century.I cannot shift it for £2.5K. It depends on the market when you are selling. Not all expensive instruments are maintanence free. I used to have a nice old French bass that needed constant encouragement to hold together at the bottom. When I was looking to buy a new bass about 10 years ago I went round all the usual suspects in the London area. I was being offered a max of £2K on what I had and the price of anything that was SIGNIFICANTLY nicer was £8 or 9K. Dealers are out to make as much money as they can, like any other retailers, they are not doing it for the love"

FWIW.
yes yes and yes to this. I agree[/quote]

Edited March 11, 2008 by owen

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='owen' post='155285' date='Mar 11 2008, 01:38 PM']In a sensitive unamplified trio situation, or a solo recital you 100% could hear the difference. In an amplified situation with some noisy brass or guitars or somesuch - a £500 bass would not sound 100 times worse than a £50K bass - and the tone is as much to do with your pick-up and rig as your bass.[/quote]

I quite often play acoustically so for me it is the case, re the 100 times worse thing, that's the law of diminishing returns.
Whichever way you prefer is a matter for the individual.
Tone is produced by the human and the instrument, amplification can only represent those elements. You can't create tonal elements that aren't there.
For the record one of my bread and butter gigs is heavily amplified and in that gig I get by with a cheap bass and an average pick up. So I do know exactly what you're saying, and I agree.
I don't mind carrying the conversation on as I think it's bringing out useful pointers for people wanting to try.
Jake

[chrkelly]

Definitely depends on the playing situation. In jazz/rock etc a good player should be able to get a very similar sound out of different basses due to their technique (provided the bass is decently set up and can vibrate freely). I like playing plywood basses in very loud situations because they don't vibrate so much and feedback is much harder to get.

Unless in the unlikely event that you find a Fendt in a junk shop for £50, the orchestral world is completely different and you will struggle to find a suitable bass with massive strong fundamental for less than 10 grand. You can of course still use a lesser bass but you won't blend into the section as well. When I'm gigging back in Ireland I usually borrow a massive old Italian flatback from one of the Ulster orchestra guys. It's worth a fortune and sounds incredible in the orchestra, but in an amplified situation, i'd imagine it would sound awful because it vibrates so freely and its acoustic sound is so huge and boomy.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='chrkelly' post='155651' date='Mar 11 2008, 11:37 PM']Definitely depends on the playing situation. In jazz/rock etc a good player should be able to get a very similar sound out of different basses due to their technique (provided the bass is decently set up and can vibrate freely). I like playing plywood basses in very loud situations because they don't vibrate so much and feedback is much harder to get.

Unless in the unlikely event that you find a Fendt in a junk shop for £50, the orchestral world is completely different and you will struggle to find a suitable bass with massive strong fundamental for less than 10 grand. You can of course still use a lesser bass but you won't blend into the section as well. When I'm gigging back in Ireland I usually borrow a massive old Italian flatback from one of the Ulster orchestra guys. It's worth a fortune and sounds incredible in the orchestra, but in an amplified situation, i'd imagine it would sound awful because it vibrates so freely and its acoustic sound is so huge and boomy.[/quote]
Thats fascinating regarding ply not feeding. I have found that my good bass does get very lively when there's lots of onstage sound but it never occurred to me that laminates would suppress that.
I don't do orchestral work so on jazz gigs and shows I can get by with a mike or a little lift from a pick up.
Thanks for that, v informative
Jake

[Owen]

A furry leopard print cover is very good at suppressing resonance

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='owen' post='156567' date='Mar 13 2008, 10:44 AM']A furry leopard print cover is very good at suppressing resonance [/quote]
somewhat like a duvet I would imagine, looks good tho!

[Owen]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='156744' date='Mar 13 2008, 02:32 PM']somewhat like a duvet I would imagine, looks good tho! [/quote]

It does sound better without it, but when it is amplified then there is not really much in it................... and then there is the glamour factor that must never be underestimated!

[Huge Hands]

Here's my experience and ten pence worth:

About four years ago, while at a wedding in Derby, the function band bass player let me have a shot of his upright at the end of the night. I was cr*p, but hooked immediately. It had a furry leopard skin cover, so may have been you Owen? I went home and decided to buy an upright. It was mainly for messing around with in the house, and I didn't want to spend a fortune.

I am also into James Jamerson, and had fantasy ideas of playing so often that I would strengthen my (huge) hands, so felt that whatever I bought, and no matter how hard to play, if I mastered it, I would be brilliant when it came to playing well setup ones. That was my theory, anyway.....

With this in mind, I bought a new 3/4 from Gear 4 Music for about £300 as mentioned by Owen. It did come with a massive polystyrene case which made a good sledge one year(!) but the soft case is the one I use. The big case is in the loft acting as a bridge between the joists!

It turned up without a bridge which I had to scream about to get another one, and I snapped two G strings trying to set it up.

It's side seam split after a couple of years which, against all advice, I used standard wood glue to fix.

Do you see what I'm trying to say? For next to no money you can buy a crap one to mess about with. If you break it, you've only lost £300. I have no intention of ever giving it to a luthier, so wood glue is fine. The seam will never need to be reopened, so another horse is safe for a while!

I was bought a Bob Golihur K&K pickup set for it, and once the Customs man got a hold of it, it was nearly worth more than the bass! I had no problem messing about with sandpaper and a file on the bridge wing trying to make it fit, because I wouldn't be busting a several grand instrument if it went wrong!

I'm just showing my experience of it. Not much spent, loads of fun messing about with it and learning how to repair stuff (badly), getting my fingers around something that seems to make an ok sound, and yet STILL being able to pretend I'm in the elite bunch that calls themselves an upright player! I haven't a clue what to do with the bow!

Hope this reads as the daft, one man perspective it was meant to.

P.S. Owen, if that was you, thanks man. I don't remember the name of the band, but they had a sax player called Mad Mick. Classic!

[jakenewmanbass]

Huge Hands,
you make some interesting points about giving it a try worry free, so I suppose I would modify my ealier posts and suggest that if people want to have a go, at least go to a dealer (such as Malcolm Healy) and try a few really lovely basses to see how wonderful they can sound, and how easy they can be to play. Then buy something you can have a bash at that doesn't cost a fortune and if you get serious, move up, if not, no great loss.
Jake

[Owen]

[quote name='Huge Hands' post='159196' date='Mar 17 2008, 08:38 PM']P.S. Owen, if that was you, thanks man. I don't remember the name of the band, but they had a sax player called Mad Mick. Classic![/quote]


No, not me, but if I had been there you would have been welcome to have a go

[Huge Hands]

[quote name='owen' post='159447' date='Mar 18 2008, 10:28 AM']No, not me, but if I had been there you would have been welcome to have a go [/quote]

Shame, I'd love to thank him (and I'm sure the wife would love to kill him for causing us to have a big chunk of wood taking up space!)

I also try to let people just have a shot when they come round, spread the word in the same way. It's especially fun to watch when mates/family bring their kids round and they are amazed by it and it's size. If I can trigger a musical desire (not just necessarily bass) in any of them, then it's a job well done. I don't even mind the sticky fingers, which I know I would be paranoid about and a lot more grumpy with them if I'd blown a fortune on one.

I'm much more protective of my guitars which is weird, because none of them set me back much more than the upright!

Not "dissing" the expensive stuff, I'd love to have the money, talent and regular requirement to justify buying one - oh and a house with more space and bigger doorways so I didn't keep dinging it everytime I moved it!

[paul, the]

[quote name='Huge Hands' post='159471' date='Mar 18 2008, 11:06 AM']Shame, I'd love to thank him (and I'm sure the wife would love to kill him for causing us to have a big chunk of wood taking up space!)[/quote]

I always thought it was bollocks; just selling techniques on ebay when people say the wife wants rid of it etc.

I can't think of a more beautiful inanimate thing to have in a home.

[Huge Hands]

[quote name='paul, the' post='159818' date='Mar 18 2008, 06:27 PM']I can't think of a more beautiful inanimate thing to have in a home.[/quote]

No need to talk about the missus like that

Edited March 18, 2008 by Huge Hands

[TPJ]

Just wanted to add a bit. I bought a DB for £425 that is believed to be Czech made. I thought it was all ply but after closer investigation it has a carved top and some sort of hardwood fingerboard, possibly ebony but probably rosewood. I took it to Jan at [b][url="http://www.chapel-allerton.org.uk"]Chapel Allerton Stringed Instruments[/url][/b] in Leeds and he has transformed it. A new hefty bridge, new Innovation Honey strings, new ebony tail piece with a Sure-lok tail wire, sound post reset and a nut reshape and bingo. The action is still high and this gives a really warm, woody tone, not bright and clacky that you sometimes get with Spiros and low action. The bill was nearly the same as the cost of the bass but it all still comes in under £800. Result if you ask me.

I would recommend Jan to anyone in the Leeds and surrounding area for any instrument repair and advice. Great chap and very helpful.

Just more evidence that you can get into double bass and get a decent tone for not a lot of dosh.

[NeonMig]

Hello guys, I'm a new poster and I stumbled across this thread (and forum) on my searches on the Interwebs (praise be to Google). Yeah I know it's an ancient thread but I couldn't pass up...

I'd like to add a few things.



So, for the last 12 or so years I've been an out-and-out metalhead, (picked up electric bass about 10 years ago) and I always used to think classical stuff was boring.

Well, when I grew up and decided to go to uni to study music, I needed to take some theory lessons. During that time, I realised that metal actually grew out of classical, and that hey maybe it's not so boring after all, let's give it a go and I loved it.

So, at uni, the orchestra needed another double bass player, and were always encouraging people to take up new instruments. The department had its own double bass just sitting around. I felt my calling.

I threw myself straight into it, not really knowing what to expect. After wobbling around for a while I sort of got the hang of it, and apart from my rather poor bowing technique I was okay... intonation comes eventually with enough practise. The other bass player in the orchestra was really helpful and pointed out lots of stuff involving technique, so I guess you could say I had 'lessons' of a sort... 'on the job' training, so to speak. I found a couple of books and videos online which helped.

I got a nice double bass from Romania, Hora brand which set me back about 1000 euro, and a good German bow and got more into it. I moved back home from the UK after my studies (I live in Cyprus) and started gigging each week, playing jazzy stuff and acoustic classic rock covers.. 2/3 hour sets at a time.

Never once did I ever have a problem with tendonitis, CTS, or anything like that. I've always had very good technique on electric, and I suppose I applied the same principals to double bass. The pointers from the other dude were helpful too.

So, in a nutshell, I say throw yourself into it. Get some advice and be careful with your technique purely to avoid hurting yourself, and don't blow a lot of cash until you're sure you want to go into it (the uni department's double bass was a godsent, noone else used it and I could practise with it anytime).

I have encountered many classical types who are unfortunately rather elitist, and seem to have forgotten that the reason we all play is for the love of music, for the joy of it and for the incomprable feeling one gets when holding down the low end, whatever music you're playing.

As for my own double bass; as I said before I got it from Romania (my dad does a lot of buisiness there and he actually transported it back home on the plane... he's a bit mad). It's an all-solid job, carved front and back with some lovely woodgrain. [url="http://www.hora.ro"]Here's the link for the site[/url], all instruments are made in Transylvania (how awsome is that muahahahaha) with wood straight from the forests of the Carpathian mountains. I suppose the whole 'buy a good one to start with rather than a cheap-o one and have to upgrade later' works in the same way with electrical instruments, but to a lesser degree. Anyhow, Hora build their instruments well, but the setups can be a bit odd. Which brings me to my next point...

With any new double bass (or really any classical stringed instrument), and I can't stress this enough, [i]have it set up by a professional.[/i] I took mine to a British expat called Benjamin Mason who lives in Cyprus and he made it fly. It's really the difference between night and day.

So ultimately, don't fear the biggest instrument in the orchestra. Yes, there are times when the lift is broken and you're dragging it up 7 stories and somewhere around the 4th floor you're thinking to yourself that you're a total idiot for choosing to play it, or wondering how exactly to fit it into a Vauxhall Astra, or you're trying to decide how exactly you're going to make that overseas gig with it, but whenver you see, hear, (or are indeed good enough to actually play) [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXt6htVi3C4"]something like this[/url], you are reminded that it's all worth it and there really isn't another instrument like it.


Well, after all that, (hope I haven't bored you) I've got my own question to ask.

I'm moving back to the UK in September to do my MA in Music, and I've decided against transporting my double bass back, and figured I might as well just get a new one in the UK. I'm just looking for a decent, student-level instrument with nice tuning machines and which sounds okay. I'm not too prejudiced against laminated things, but I'd like a nice fingerboard. I don't really have a set budget other than 'the cheaper the better' (but let's say below 700GBP).

So anywhere I might be able to find something nice? I'm going to be living in central London.



Whew! That was a big first post.

[NeonMig]

No need to be worried, man. Just get a few pointers, and seriously, throw yourself into it. You've got nothing to lose, and a whole lot to gain! It's a fantastic instrument and a great thing to do.

[Quatschmacher]

Hey NeonMig,

thanks for the links to Renaud Garcia Fons, I'd never heard of him before, but I definitely will be checking out his music!

Incidentally, have you heard of Avishai Cohen? He's a bass player (I say this because there is a trumpeter with the same name). If not, check him out. Inspirational.

[slobluesine]

anyone know about these...

[url="http://www.ollysguitar.com/archer-size-professional-double-bass-p-347786.html"]http://www.ollysguitar.com/archer-size-pro...s-p-347786.html[/url]

seems a good deal...

[originalfunkbrother]

Hi

I recently heard Chick Corea's Acoustic Trio with John Patittucci on DB and I must say I was blown away!!! Now I have fallen in Love with the DB and want to give it a go. Does anyone know of good/great DB teachers in the London South East areas?!?

[Quatschmacher]

There are loads of great pro jazz bassists playing on the London scene. It might be worth checking a few gigs and finding someone whose tone and technique appeals to you and ask them if they'll teach (or they may pass you to one of their better students).

[Huge Hands]

[quote name='slobluesine' post='307879' date='Oct 16 2008, 01:03 PM']anyone know about these...

seems a good deal...[/quote]

Ha ha, may be Gear 4 Music's "premium" range, but still comes with the humongously massive blown polystyrene case. At least I'll be able to save myself some money on a coffin when I eventually pop off...

[gusto]

I too am thinking of buying my first DB, and am finding these problems:

I have a limited amount of cash 500 or less.
I have been looking on ebay quite a bit, and have no idea how to tell the difference between good and cheap DB's, they all look similar in pics.
How do you tell the difference when looking at pics?
What questions should I ask the seller?

And yes I know it is best to play the DB that is for sale, but what I am looking for is how to tell the good cheap DB's from the bad cheap DB's.
I am going to be playing Rockabilly style so and hints on basses that would help me would be great.

Cheers, Gusto.

[PhilSpectone]

Hi - just to start to say how refreshing I found NeonMig's posts! Really encouraging!

Gusto - I'm really new to this DB thing having played lecky bass for nearly 35 years. I have lurked around these and other forums, reading advice from those who know better than me - however I'm going to let you know what I think.

[size=4]Buy a funking bass!![/size] - sure buy the best you can afford and budget for a good set-up and some teaching, but just go ahead and get one. I mucked around for 5 years before I leaped in and bought a lami bass that I'd never played for £350from some bloke on ebay...and haven't regretted it.

Life is full of risks and possibilities and you may buy something which is less than perfect - get the best advise you can but let's face it you don't want to be on your death bed saying to your nearest and dearest - [i]"well at least I didn't waste any money on a crap bass". [/i]Frankly I wished I'd done it 20 years ago as I'm having a great time. I've had the bass 6 weeks, played it everyday, had offers of 4 jobs including a cruise and a summer season in the med. My blisters area thing of wonder and I've got a big cheesy grin!

[size=5]Just go an get one!!!![/size]

[essexbasscat]

Discovered this old'n while looking for info on sizing up DB's. Some interesting reading here.

Are there any shops that stock a reasonable selection of double basses local to London ?

Cheers all