EUB..

[Faithless]

I'm thinking of switching EUB..

I've read lots about Stagg and Palatino, these two are in my budget capabilities..


My favourite is Palatino, actually (actual DB bridge, more decent looks..)


The thing is, Thomann doesn't sell Palatinos, but they sell Harley Bentons - as I assume, these are copies of Pallies.. :

[url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_eub_500_sb_electric_upright.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_eub...ric_upright.htm[/url]


Anyone tried these? Do they differ a lot in terms of quality? (Their cost is about the same, innit..)


I'm after modding my EUB little by little - and it would be easier to do that on that 'a la Palatino' (Harley Benton..) model, than Stagg, innit - actual DB bridge and other things..?

If you can tell me, why Stagg is better than Pally, do it, I might chance my choice..


Cheers
Faith

[BigBeatNut]

Can only offer a little advice on the Palatino/Benton.

From what I've read of the way the industry works, that Harley Benton most likely comes from the same factory as the Palatinos. Possibly slightly different spec (machines, finish) and then a different badge slapped on it. That's my guess.

I did consider a Palatino, but after trying one, I decided it offered nothing more sound-wise than a stick bass such as the Stagg, and in addition it was very heavy. I read something about them being hollow or chambered construction, but from the weight I would have guessed it was a solid slab of wood.

I eventually went for something Palatino-sized, but with a sound chamber that did contribute to the sound (BSX Allegro, outside your budget I think), but if I was to go for a 2nd EUB, it would almost certainly be the Stagg, on the grounds of portability (less bulk, less weight).

Andy

[TheRev]

I've played both and I preferred the Harley Benton feel wise. The construction on the Stagg was also a bit ropey, but I've since seen others that were much better so it could have been a one off. They both sounded ok though.

My choice would be the Harley Benton, partly for aesthetic reasons but mainly due to the huge modding thread on Talkbass - with a little bit of fettling and very little money you can apparently get a decent sounding bass.

[Faithless]

The thing is, I'm hardly a 'moderator' of basses..

But, if Palatino's and HB's price is actually almost the same, how can quality 'machines, and finish' differ much, if they're made in the same factory, huh?

Edited June 12, 2010 by Faithless

[BigBeatNut]

[quote name='Faithless' post='865377' date='Jun 12 2010, 05:29 PM']But, if Palatino's and HB's price is actually almost the same, how can quality 'machines, and finish' differ much, if they're made in the same factory,[/quote]
That's just speculation on my part. Speculation that the manufacturer offered to make the batch for Harley Bentons with (say) machines sourced from a different supplier (for either a cost saving, or improvement in quality). I'm just guessing, based on the kind of things I've read about how this kind of operation (manufacture in Far East, branding in UK or USA) works.

I could also be wrong, and your original assumption (that they're a copy) could right ... but I think that's a bit less likely.

[Faithless]

That makes sense..


Anyway, I'm in doubt, if I should let go my current EUB...

It's made by Lithuanian luthier, neck is from a real DB (Strunal?)..

Here a pics of it, first post in this thread:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=65188"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=65188[/url]

What I don't like about is the bridge, and that neck is layed into the body (I can't put my thumb under the neck, as most DB players do..), and that it doesn't have it's own endpin (?) - I can't control EUB's position, cuz I have to play it, being on a stand..

A few mins ago I played it without any EQ'ing, and listened, if there's any 'wood' in the sound, and, to my ears, it sound much more like a real DB, than Stagg or Palatino (the only ones I could afford, actually..)

You can listen to my EUB sound (no EQ, Line-In..):

[attachment=52044:db_scale.wav]



Any comments?

Should I try modding it, or let it go?

[TheRev]

Hmmm.

I don't think you'll get a better sound than that from a Stagg or HB/Pally bass.

Sounds like you don't get on with the feel of your EUB rather than the sound. Is there any way you can add an endpin and a body frame to allow to play it without the stand?

[Faithless]

I'll be bringing it to luthier next week, we'll see, what can be done..

And, yup, it's more like technical stuff, that annoys me, rather than the sound.. But the sound,it;s most important thing here, innit..

Edited June 13, 2010 by Faithless

[Mateybass]

I would imagine that the Harley Benton is just a rebadged Palatino and is exactly the same instrument. Harley Benton bass guitars were Shine basses rebadged. The Saein Musical Instrument Co. Ltd have two factories, the better quality Shine and some Ibanez, Epiphone, Peavey etc. instruments tend to be from the Korean factory and the lower priced ones like Harley Benton from China. Whether this applies to the Harley Benton/Palatino EUBs I haven't a clue but I'm guessing they're both from the same Chinese factory, whoever that is.


I'm not entirely sure where the Stagg is made but it has a lot in common with the Aria SWB stick things and suggests a factory/manufacturer link too. The Stagg is eminently moddable, mine is now a 5 string and fantastic.

My advice to you would be to try out a Palatino and a Stagg before you decide which one to go with since it has to be comfortable to play and the Stagg isn't eveyone's cup of tea, same goes for the Palatino/HB. Either one will need modding to iron out build issues or sound improvement (see the links in my sig for the Stagg). Read the whole of the megathreads for both on the TalkBass forums to help you decide.

Edited June 14, 2010 by Mateybass

[Faithless]

I've decided not to dip into either Stagg or Pally/HB, cuz their sound, compared to my EUB, is much more electric, and I'll be focusing on the sound, first of all.. I'll just try to mod my bass a lil bit, that's it..


Thanks for advice, guys

[Faithless]

What, would you say, would be appropriate action to set on an EUB (DB, whatever..)?

I mean, the distance between fingerboard and string, outer strings, E and G, at the 12th fret..?

[OutToPlayJazz]

I usually have my double basses and Triumph EUB set at about 5mm (between string and the end of the fingerboard.) Being as you use pickups and amplifiers, there's no need to hit the thing hard, so you'd be as well to have a nice easy action and a pain free life

[Faithless]

Umm, you meant, 5mm both by G and E strings?

I get about 6mm height by the G string, but, by the E string, it's more like 10mm.. Too high?

[Beer of the Bass]

Those heights are pretty typical for an acoustic double bass, so should be a good starting point. I have my strings set at 7mm (G) to 10mm (E) at the end of the board. What kind of right-hand technique are you using? In my opinion, that's the biggest factor in getting a convincing double bass sound from an EUB.

[Faithless]

I play only pizzicato, using one finger, if that makes difference..

It doesn't seem too high for me, anyway, I just need to get used to it, I think..

[derrenleepoole]

I've owned a Palatino, and the one thing I would say is the stand is a little weak. The body is heavy, and the extending foot system isn't that well designed - the bass slips down over time. Have a search on Talkbass for piccies on mods using drum cymbal stands to help keep the bass more sturdy, or I can email you some of my mods when I get home. The Palatino is a good EUB, but it does need a lot of tweaking to get it better. Which begs the question, if you're going to be spending all that money making an average bass better, why not just get a better bass to begin with?

[Mateybass]

[quote name='derrenleepoole' post='886459' date='Jul 5 2010, 05:02 PM']I've owned a Palatino, and the one thing I would say is the stand is a little weak. The body is heavy, and the extending foot system isn't that well designed - the bass slips down over time. Have a search on Talkbass for piccies on mods using drum cymbal stands to help keep the bass more sturdy, or I can email you some of my mods when I get home. The Palatino is a good EUB, but it does need a lot of tweaking to get it better. Which begs the question, if you're going to be spending all that money making an average bass better, why not just get a better bass to begin with?[/quote]

In defence of the Stagg, leaving out my 5-string conversion, the mods done to bring it up to giggable standard have probably cost about £20 all in. The conversion to 5-string cost was around £150 in total, of which £45 was the cost of the low B string. Including the price of the original instrument at £285, I have a perfectly good [b]bowable 5-string EUB[/b] for less than [b]£450[/b].

[derrenleepoole]

[quote name='Mateybass' post='886923' date='Jul 6 2010, 12:49 AM']In defence of the Stagg, leaving out my 5-string conversion, the mods done to bring it up to giggable standard have probably cost about £20 all in. The conversion to 5-string cost was around £150 in total, of which £45 was the cost of the low B string. Including the price of the original instrument at £285, I have a perfectly good [b]bowable 5-string EUB[/b] for less than [b]£450[/b].[/quote]

I've used a Stagg and it's a great cheap copy of the Aria EUB and very capable - I missed out on getting one for £200 , but the Palatino is a little bit different I feel. The Palatino is slightly hollow bodied compared to the Stagg, and many of the mods seem to be aimed towards this advantage. So when I owned one, the move was to make the piezo element more responsive and improving the bridge - at the time this was perhaps more costly. The mod of using a cymbal stand can be a cheap solution, but a really good quality cymbal stand compared with a cheaper one makes all the difference to stability. A good sturdy stand will set you back £100+ - add these mods up and all of a sudden you're approaching £650+ mark (at the time of me owning one), that price is not too far away from a new WAV4 for example.