I had a visit from the "Bass Fairy"

[Grand Wazoo]

It bloody took for ever to get here.... 2 months! [b]But[/b] this is a special pickup made to order with 30% more winding for more output and hotter than their regular one. I've asked those hippy guys at Lollar pickups to match the output of a Seymour Duncan Quarter Pound, but without the larger magnets that cause the extra magnetic pull on the strings i.e. sort of deadening the strings vibration. This is going to be fitted to my CIJ Fender 51 Reissue Precision and it's going to be quite interesting to hear what it'll sound like. I'll keep you posted.

pics? oh yes... here u go.

[Ou7shined]

He he I still remember the excitement of when mine arrived.
I love my Lollar.

[Grand Wazoo]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='865017' date='Jun 12 2010, 11:12 AM']He he I still remember the excitement of when mine arrived.
I love my Lollar.[/quote]

On what bass have you got yours, I had a standard Lollar on my Precision but I didn't find it particularly better than the original one it came with. I am talking about this Crafted in Japan 51 Reissue. But at the same time I have a SD Q/Pound fitted to my Squier 51 P which sounds amazing but, there is a definite string pull which is why after 3 phonecalls to the man and the fact that he couldn't be bother initially to make a custom order one I nagged him and even offered to send him back the other one for him to keep/resell whatever and work on my new one, eventually he agreed to make one special in his spare time but he said it was going to be a one off and might take longer. The man gave me a hundred excuses why his "handmade" pickups are all made individually by hand and each one is already a one off and blah blah, all with a twangy north american accent boring me silly... until I said well ok look make one hotter! Give yourself a challenge, how's that? Finally he said: Dooode I'll do it, mkay? Pukka I said! Result!

[Ou7shined]

It's had a bit of a journey. I originally got it for Betty (sig) which I'd built from scratch out of an old early '80s Encore Coaster but I found an original Fender '51 pup and surprisingly it suited Betty better so the Lollar then went into my CIJ '51 P replacing the modern sounding SD it came with. I sold the '51 P which I kindly put Betty's '51 pup into for the buyer. But this was just after I got my lovely lovely Shuker and of course it deserved the very best so in went the Lollar and that's where it will stay, pumping out major P-ness. F'nar.

I took the Shuker along to the last Moffat Bash where there are mainly uber-basses on show (I'd taken the CIJ '51 P to the previous one and the lack of enthusiasm for it was palpable) and as I was setting it up for a jam you could see the nonplussed "heard it" looking faces (and quite rightly so) but as I started playing eyebrows raised. She has an unmistakable trad P voice but it is fuller more powerful with an open dynamic compared to any other single coil P I have tried - and there have been a few. The status Hotwire flats are a major factor too.

I can't wait to hear your review of your Lollar as my standard one already sounds plenty hot. By the sounds of it yours will have the ability to shatter planets.

[spinynorman]

I was thinking about Lollar for my 51 RI P, but in the end I went with an SD Antiquity off eBay which was a lot cheaper, and I didn't have to argue with anyone.

Also looked at Fralins, which have a range of hotness options as standard, but hotter wasn't really what I was after.

I hope the Lollar works for you.

Edited June 12, 2010 by spinynorman

[Ou7shined]

Fralins are to date my favourite custom Jazz pups (got them in my Holey Head Jazz) and I looked at their '51 P offerings too (especially the split) but plumped for the Lollar. I'd still love to try one, although I doubt I'll get the chance with a brace of SDs in my parts box already.
Yeah I found the Antiquity to be the complete antithesis of hot.

[Grand Wazoo]

Well today I had some time off and finally managed to fit the Lollar to my 51R P and.... after 1 hour of testing and comparing, I have decided to re-fit the original back while the Lollar is going to go on sale.

There is a substantial problem for me with this Lollar, the pickup poles are all set at the same height whereas the original has the 2 inner poles slightly raised to compensate for the strings natural camber in relation to the the fretboard contour. With the Lollar the A string sounded a lot and I mean a lot quieter than the E string, if I raised the pickup on the E/A strings side the A string will sound ok'ish but the E ended up even louder. The problem doesn't exists so much with the D and G strings as they are thinner of course and more or less on the same height. Adjusting the bridge saddles doesn't help (bear in mind there's only 2 saddles) and you end up messing with the strings contour, hence if you lower the A side of the E/A saddle you get a the fret buzz even on open string. At the end I had to give up, remove it and resolder the original one on.

To be entirely honest I didn't appreciate that much of a difference in sound between the original and the Lollar anyway, which means I will stick with it for now on as I find it very good as it is.

Lollar I have two words for you. both bad.

A very pi$$ed GW

Edited June 19, 2010 by Grand Wazoo

[Ou7shined]

That sucks.
It is possible to raise and lower the pole pieces with a swift tap of a hammer.

[Grand Wazoo]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='872308' date='Jun 19 2010, 11:59 PM']That sucks.
It is possible to raise and lower the pole pieces with a swift tap of a hammer. [/quote]

I have considered that, but are you sure it is possible? I mean do you know for a fact, of someone doing that successully? I thought the poles are glued in heatsunk dried up wax or some kind of compound? I don't want to knacker it.

[Ou7shined]

Yeah it works. I have personally seen Fender ones that were so loose you could slip the bobbin top off. I just tested it on a SPB-1 I have handy and there was definite movement. My Shuker is upstairs just now but I'd wager it's the same. The only ones I'd be reticent about trying are the SPB-3 - I have one here now and it feels pretty sturdy, probably because of the larger pole pieces.

If you're unsure, email Lollar and ask.

[Grand Wazoo]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='872328' date='Jun 20 2010, 12:32 AM']Yeah it works. I have personally seen Fender ones that were so loose you could slip the bobbin top off. I just tested it on a SPB-1 I have handy and there was definite movement. My Shuker is upstairs just now but I'd wager it's the same. The only ones I'd be reticent about trying are the SPB-3 - I have one here now and it feels pretty sturdy, probably because of the larger pole pieces.

If you're unsure, email Lollar and ask.[/quote]

I'll try with a gentle tap first and if it works I'll try it back in.

[b]THANKS[/b]

Edited June 20, 2010 by Grand Wazoo

[Grand Wazoo]

I have emailed Jason Lollar about my problem with his pickup and here are a few email back and forth from a far from helpful Jason Lollar as follows:

[b]MY EMAIL TO HIM[/b]

Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 2:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Lollar Pickup for 51 Precision Bass

Dear Jason & Co.

I live in London England and I have just bought and fitted one of your single coil Precision bass pickup for my 51 Reissue Fender tele style P-Bass.
I am having a problem with this pickup as follows:
The original Fender pickup had staggered pickup poles meaning that the 2 inner poles, to be precise the ones for the A and the D strings were slightly raised compared to the outer 2, the E and G. This I assume was done so that the poles would follow the natural camber and contour of the fingerbard radius.
Your pickup on the other end, has all the poles flat and set at the same height, and with this I have a much quieter A string than the E string, If I raise the pickup to enhance the A string then the E, as a result, sounds a lot louder and if I try to adjust the saddles, by lowering the A side on the saddle it ends up buzzing against the frets. You know these basses only have 2 saddles in the bridge so there isn't much adjustment to be done there.

I was wondering if it is possible push the two inner poles on your pickup so that they come out slightly higher then the outer to to match the radius, I mean can this be done from the bottom of the pickup, tapping with a mallet and a pin, without causing any damage or what else do you suggest I could do to resolve this issue. I am at a point where I am not that happy about string to string volume balance and reluctant to refit my original pickup and sell yours to someone else at a loss,

Please advice what I can do. Thanks

[b]HIS REPLY[/b]
I have made a few hundred of those pickups and they have been used by several bass builders and its the first I have heard of string imbalance- also all old Teles had flat poles, we make 90 % of our strat pickups with flat poles, vintage jazz bass pickups are flat poles- having said that I think a lot of people compensate with their picking for Strats with stagger poles which certainly have problems with some strings being louder than others and other guys compensate a little with flat poles- i would bet you are use to playing with stagger poles so you are compensating in a way that doesn’t fit with a flat pole.

You could try pressing the two inner poles up but it may short out the coil and it would void the warrantee- it is possible that it would work- its going to be a coin toss for sure. The poles are insulated with tape so it has a better chance of working than a stock fender pickup. You would press slowly from the bottom while supporting the top with either a wood block with a groove down the center or better yet a block with a couple holes drilled in it slightly bigger than the magnets- this will keep the top flat and free of flex.

Unfortunately you are in the uk so its expensive to ship back and forth and you bought it from a dealer rather than direct.

I can tell you in the US if you look on eBay you’ll find my pickups often sell for

$10 less than full price- this varies of course

What you are asking for we could make- I just never found a reason to make it before- it’s a mystery to me why you are having a dramatic difference in volume- I have everything I make installed in a guitar now or installed at some time.

I would talk to your dealer and tell him- this isn’t working- if you are close have him look at it and then have him talk to me and me and he will work something out for you- I want to do it that way as he is my dealer and he sold it to you. I need my dealers involved in what they sell- including the occasional problem because I rely on them to catch any problems and he is there and could take a look and confirm if the pickup is working correctly, installed correctly and isn’t performing correctly- it could be a simple trouble shoot I cant see from here.

Jason Lollar

Lollar Pickups
206-463-9838
www.lollarguitars.com
-----------------------------------------
[b]MY REPLY TO HIS EMAIL[/b]

Dear Mr. Lollar, first of all many thanks for taking the trouble to reply to me, I agree with you that the Lollar pickups are world reknown for their excellence and it was thanks to the good reputation of your estimed company that I have made the choice to buy one of your pickups
However as you have been so kind to investigate my unbalanced string to string volume issue, here below are some pictures that should give you a better idea of what I am referring to.

In the pic below you will see how curved is the profile radius of my neck.


As you can see that is quite some curve, as a result, the bridge must be set at a camber that will follow that particular radius, hence my bridge is set like this:


Now, the original Fender pickup that I removed in order to fit yours has staggered poles again to follow that particular neck profle and this what that pickup looks like:



Your pickup's poles as you know are all set flat as in the pics below:


I hope you see what I mean when I use your pickup, the A and the D strings are farther away from the poles and if I raise the pickup the obvious effect is also a louder E which is very difficult to compensate even by a soft touch, I don't use a pick I play with my fingers.

I am waiting to hear your opinion.

Once again many thanks for your kind help on the matter.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[b]HIS LAST REPLY (USELESS)[/b]

Well, thank you for listening to me and showing me those photos - we are talking about 1/16" difference probably- something like that right? That is typical- I just haven’t run into it before where anyone noticed a drop off in volume, and I can say I never noticed it during R&D or after while playing the guitar.

If you have access to it, record a sample and send it to me.

Jason

Lollar Pickups
206-463-9838
www.lollarguitars.com

[b]---------- TO BE CONTINUED ---------
I will send him a sample alright and see what he says then...[/b]

[LawrenceH]

I have done the mallet-tap thingy on my Fender Jazz pickups that had a couple of poles that were sitting too low. SO I can say for a fact it works - at least sometimes! YMMV and all that. Personally, I'd do it - but then I am prone to doing stupid things from time to time.

[KiOgon]

I would be exactly the same! In fact I have a couple of pups that I would like to raise the centre poles on, for the same reason. I think it would help if the pup is quite warm before you try moving the poles. Pushing is definitely safer than knocking, magnets loose their strength when they're banged. I've heard of warming the pole pieces with a soldering iron before pushing but I wouldn't try it on a expensive pup.

Good luck,
John

[Ou7shined]

I think JL answered the questions well enough and explained how best to execute it. And I'm not in the least bit surprised that from his stand point as a manufacturer that modifications to his design will void the warranty.

[spinynorman]

Yes, seems like a reasonable response to me, but sounds like he hasn't made the connection between the query and being bullied into making a one-off pickup in his spare time. ^_^

Must say I like my 51 RI P a lot better since I started playing it through a Markbass combo, rather than a Hartke HA3500 and Ashdown MAGs, and I'm not convinced the SD Antiquity made that much difference.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='spinynorman' post='877469' date='Jun 25 2010, 03:33 PM']Yes, seems like a reasonable response to me, but sounds like he hasn't made the connection between the query and being bullied into making a one-off pickup in his spare time. ^_^[/quote]
He he. I wasn't going to say.

[quote name='spinynorman' post='877469' date='Jun 25 2010, 03:33 PM']Must say I like my 51 RI P a lot better since I started playing it through a Markbass combo, rather than a Hartke HA3500 and Ashdown MAGs, and I'm not convinced the SD Antiquity made that much difference.[/quote]
I though the Antiquity was the tamest of the lot I tried - the original was better. You should try one of the others and you might like it even more. I'd love to hear what the Fralins can do.

[Grand Wazoo]

[quote name='spinynorman' post='877469' date='Jun 25 2010, 03:33 PM']Yes, seems like a reasonable response to me, but sounds like he hasn't made the connection between the query and being bullied into making a one-off pickup in his spare time. ^_^

Must say I like my 51 RI P a lot better since I started playing it through a Markbass combo, rather than a Hartke HA3500 and Ashdown MAGs, and I'm not convinced the SD Antiquity made that much difference.[/quote]


Please man, I never bullied him, actually being very polite as I usually am, I've put a challenge to him, which he eventually accepted, when I ordered it hotter. He has even forgotten that, and not just that he has also forgotten that he told me since I was in UK that I had to buy it through an official importer. I reckon he does too much pot that bloke, certainly has a real short memory and attention span.

Moral of the story is simple, I have now gone around the problem by fitting a Badass III which allows me fine tuning of all four saddles and also allows me accurate height adjustment without affecting the neighbouring string, by doiung so I have managed to retain a decent string arc (camber whilst not having the E string too close to the mag pole) It suddelny hit me that the SD quarter pound pickup on my Squier 51 reissue is also all flat and not staggered so I have realized it was because the bridge with individual saddles helped setting the height much more accurately than it does with the original 2 saddles vintage bridge.

Happy days again and I won't bother to contact Lollar cause he's been no help to me at all.

[Ou7shined]

Dude I'm confused. How has fitting a BA improved it? You already followed the rake of the curvature with your 2 saddle bridge. If you haven't just recreated it with the BA, presumably now you have levelled the strings in line with the pup therefore making the action on the E and G higher.

Btw I think the 2 saddle bridge gets far too much bad press on here. I managed absolutely fine with mine (we're talking perfect intonation) - although to be fair it did take a little longer to set up as when you pull one end forward (for example) to adjust, it's counter part goes backwards, which knocks out what you've already done - annoying but it just takes a little patience.

[quote]...which is why after 3 phonecalls to the man and the fact that he couldn't be bother initially to make a custom order one I nagged him and even offered to send him back the other one for him to keep/resell whatever and work on my new one, eventually he agreed to make one special in his spare time...[/quote]
To be fair it did sound like you hassled him a bit earlier.

[Grand Wazoo]

Outshined, listen pal, you and I, same train of thoughts, severed at the hips to be more accurate, I agree 10000000% with you, and that is the reason I wasn't even contemplating to try the badass on it, because like you I have been thinking that phisics and cause / effect theories did not work out on paper, and to me it never made sense that changing the bridge would have made a blind bit of difference but hear me out.

I have another similar bass which is the Squier 50's precision in lake placid blue, as in the pic below:



Now that bass is fitted with a Seymour Duncan 1/4 Pound pickup, with fantastic string to string response and a wicked sound! (Hence me asking Lollar to make one as hot as that one, because I am really pleased with the result I get from that pickup) and that bass comes with one of these Fender Hi-Mass bridge very close to a Badass but with traditional saddles in s/steel. See pic below:




The poles on the 1/4 pound are also flat as on the Lollar



And the fingerboard radius of the Squier is a lot similar to that of the Fender '51 CIJ



So that was the turning point when I said to myself, I've tried everything why not try to emulate the same setup I have on the Squier and repeat it on the Fender?.... Since the Hi-Mass bridge from the Squier could not be fitted to the Fender due to the fact that the Hi_mass has 5 fixing screws and the original Fender only 3 screws, I took a badass III off a Jazz bass I had lying around in "project status" with no neck, I decided to give it a go. The reason I did this is not because I think the original two saddles bridge is not good, far from, I really do like the simplicty and sound response from it, but it does suffer from extended practicality in terms of adjustment / fine tuning.

So on goes the badass III and after a lot of testing and tuning, this is the setup which was the most succesfull and that eliminated the problem with a louder E







The result as you will agree with me is freak occurrence but it works so what am I to do?

[Ou7shined]

I like the bonsais.

The E and G do look like they have a higher action in that last pic, yes?

I wasn't directing the 2 saddle thing to you. I'm just so fed up with the comments from those that don't have the wherewithal that they are any less configurable than brand X's super bridge. I think I need to start a thread.

[Grand Wazoo]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='877685' date='Jun 25 2010, 07:18 PM']I like the bonsais.

The E and G do look like they have a higher action in that last pic, yes?

I wasn't directing the 2 saddle thing to you. I'm just so fed up with the comments from those that don't have the wherewithal that they are any less configurable than brand X's super bridge. I think I need to start a thread. [/quote]

It looks like they are higher, but they are not. There is still a repectable arc but not as pronounced as the two saddle bridge allowed. And Outshined, I've only just been to SpecSavers this morning to get my eyes tested again because I was due a repeat test. I am pleased to say my prescription has not changed since my last test. even thoough my camera is not really good quality, that's the best I can do photographically speaking.

[Musicman20]

Off topic, that sunburst is fantastic!

[Grand Wazoo]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='877708' date='Jun 25 2010, 07:49 PM']Off topic, that sunburst is fantastic![/quote]

Yeah man, she is a looker that one

[spinynorman]

"We don't ... need no ... intonation"