Please help

[karlfer]

Hi folks.
1st gig last night with recently acquired SWR 350X. Using Son of Bertha 1x15 with tweeter, Mag 4x10 with tweeter, both 8 ohms, 350 and 600 watts respectively. Lakland Skyline Darryl Jones.
Previously used Ashdown Mag 300, 2x10, with the bass and the above mentioned Mag 4x10. Just used to push in the "Deep" preset, instant John Paul Jones sound. (Well, the 5 notes I can play were!).

OK, back to the SWR at last nights gig. Hated it.
1. Green limiter light coming on with pre at 5 and Master at 4. I don't really understand what this does, but knocked back the Master to stop it coming on, thus restricting my volume. It has a Limiter Defeat, but I was scared to use it for fear of damaging anything.
2. Has this Aural Enhancer thing, followed by a bass control, then Midrange Level,then Midrange Frequency, then it has a treble control. Apparently it's all parametric? Also, adjustable tweeter which I turned to zero.

So, I am not getting enough volume (certainly not as much as my old 300 watt Mag) and I can't get that lovely smooth, bassy John Paul Jones kinda sound.
My immediate reaction was to get rid and get a 2nd hand ABM head, but I can't really afford to take the inevitable hit. Having thought about it rationally, this is the most complicated amp I have ever owned and surely the volume and sound are in there. I am just too dim to sort it.
Having further thought about my knee jerk ( or is it just jerk?) reaction, there is masses of willing experience on here, so....

any advice really would be really gratefully accepted.
Cheers,
Karl.

Edited June 12, 2010 by karlfer

[JTUK]

SWR and a Jazz bass IMV, is a CLASSIC sound and you need to get to know your way around the enhancer as the sweep can be extreme, IMV.

Stating the obvious, but set everything flat or at 12..and the enhancer between 10 and 2.. tweak between this and no more atm.

This is a pwerful amp with more than one sound and you can certainly tie yourself up in knots.

I have to say that I am often bemused that people think they can work out their kit in a session. I spend months fine tuning before I decide it can't work.

And whilst you are working through the sounds..I'd stick to one cab for the time being just to determine the exact sound/charateristics

Edited June 12, 2010 by JTUK

[karlfer]

Thanks for that JTUK. Think I really just panicked myself a bit.
Stupid really, changing from one make to another, and expecting the same sound, just louder and clearer.
Going to make a start on the road you suggest.
I really am actually quite thick and have never had an amp as sophisticated as this.
Wish me luck!

[JTUK]

The mid sweep will do a lot of tone shaping as well...and again, be gentle with this when playing around for sounds as the changes are big.
This is usual on mid sweeps anyway, IME.

This also should have a valve pre...I think, as the 750x does and these valves do not go on for ever. Not saying this is where your problems lie, but beware that valves are valves and wear out. I have only changed mine once is 18 years so..!!!!

There is a train of thought that says minimun gain and excess master to get an over driven sound but that is not something I do, but
this amp should be capable of a lush fat sound that will underpin the band and certainly in junction with the SonofBertha.
I don't know about Ashdown cabs as have only used them when provided. I am not so sure they would be a good match but a used Goliath 4x10 would be pretty much all you would need with that set-up IMV..
The 4x10 can be harsh sounding but bloom wonderfully ..but you need to welcome the fact that you'll hear everything close-up..for good or bad. The bass response is awesome too. I think the SWR 4x10 Goliath ll was a benchmark for 4x10 for years.
If you have the money and inclination, then I think the Aguilar GS410 on here would be worth a look..

That and your amp should be all you'll need...not trying to spend your money though as the Bertha should do as well if you like 15's...nice cab, IMV

[karlfer]

Cheers JTUK, going to be patient and follow your advice.
I know it's me that's the problem and you have given me a great deal to work with to get the sound I am looking for.
This forum is great when folk are stumped and get good people like you giving their time and experience to help them.
Can't stretch as far as the Aguilar, but there is a WorkingPro 4x10 on evilbay that I have just put a bid on.
If I get it, I will sell the UK Ashdown Mag 4x10.

All I need now is for my mother to bugger off home so I can make some noise!

All the best,
Karl.

[JTUK]

Thanks......

Good luck and it should be fun finding some new sounds.
Even if you don't touch much else the first few times, you will here the work that the enhancer can do ..and also, when you choose a mid frequency and then use the sweep to boost or cut, that will do so much.

FWIW, I have a SM400 it is differnt in that it has a 4 band para EQ, ..and the bass and treble are set at 12 and I never touch them ever. All the work is done with the mids boosting or cutting, and the enhancer.

Not too sure about the JPJ's sound but from your hint about the deep bass preset.
I'd be thinking that 12 to 3 on the bass control.....and then pick a low mid frequency and boost via the sweep and see where that takes you. Then adjust the treble control to suit.

Good fun.

[Musky]

SWR gear is well known for it's mid scoop, and that might be throwing you a bit - certainly threw me. It means that when you leave you tone controls flat you're not getting anything like a flat frequency response. Add to that the fact that the aural enhancer can increase that mid scoop and you get a tone section that isn't that intuitive.

[attachment=52065:SWRauralenhancer.jpg]

I've got a Workingmans combo and the limiter LED lights up all the time. It does pretty much what the label suggests, limiting the peak output to prevent damage to your speakers. It very subtle in operation and isn't noticeable in operation - I leave mine on all the time.

[karlfer]

Many thanks again fellas.
Mother buggering off home tomorrow, so will be time to start experimenting and annoying the Mrs.
Hopefully will get closer by Friday nights gig (yes, we are playing on the same night as England!).

All the best lads,
Karl.

[karlfer]

OK, so followed you 2 guys advice. Been experimenting every night this week.
Gig last night, big hotel/pub near Wigan.
Sound checked at half time in the football.
Lead guitard did walkabout with his wireless, came back reporting rig sounded FANTASTIC! Certainly no tone or volume issues.
Fearing the worst response after Englands performance, seemed a packed pub decided if they couldn't party with England, they would party with BBGM.
Still always surprised seeing 20 to 50 year olds bouncing about to things like Freebird and Am I Evil.
Drummer from the last band I was in,and the drummer from Twin Lizzy both there and both genuinely enjoyed the gig.
Thanks guys, I am so relieved.
The help guys like you give freely on this forum is why it's such a bloody good place to be.
I really can't thank you enough,
Cheers,
Karl.

[JTUK]

Congrats..well done on putting the time in.

In the world of sweep controls..then least is most, IME.

If you should loose the sounds on various gigs for whatever reason..return to the starting point set-up that you have gotten used to.
Since you know how this can sound..that is your reference..if anything has changed but the settings are the same..then outside influences are at work..like the stage floor or the room.

There is no reason why you can't get a good working sound from these amps...but due to the extreme tone shaping controls, which we assume is a good thing... they can also screw it out of sight...

As you get to know the amp you can more often return the sound to your neutral start point and start again, should the need arise.

Pleased for you ..

[karlfer]

OK, so tiny bit more tweaking this week.
Gig last night, told to turn it down by guitard at sound check, even though only one not through PA.
Original bassist/vocalist for Twin Lizzy there, came up at end of gig, said bass sound was superb and asked what the bass was (Lakland Daryll Jones). (No prizes for guessing what his main bass is!)
Chuffed to bits.

I am so grateful to you guys for sorting me out when I was in spoilt brat mode.

All the best,
Karl.