Wizard 64's vs 84's

[dave_bass5]

Im all set to order a set of Wizards for my CV Jazz.
Ive had emails from Andy and based on what im asking for, he has recommended the 84's. I tend to agree with him but im just wondering if anyone has any comments to make about the difference in these two pups.
Are the 64's brighter but at the expense of less punch? I like the idea of more low end but dont want to get too muddy.
Im playing mainstream covers, and my cab has loads of mid punch already so i would prefer a smoother tone, but also as close to a P as i can get (i know i wont get too close).

Cheers.

[mcgraham]

I've not tried either of those, but if you're looking for a hugely muscular tone with a P sound hidden in there, I would recommend the DiMarzio Model Js. I took the plunge on these years ago and never looked back. They are P style pickup arrangements in J housings. The neck pickup is remarkably P like when solo'd. Together they sound massive. The review on TB says 'you are a crushing glacier, nothng will stand in your way'... that isn't far from truth.

Apologies for not answering you question, I just thought these pickups deserved a mention.

[Sibob]

I have slightly overwound 84's in my 1973 Jazz.
I wouldn't want it any quieter to be honest, its about the same output as other stock 70's fenders I've tried.
I wouldn't say they're super dark, it's quite even across the strings, highs don't pop out loads, so keeps everything smooth

Si

[dave_bass5]

Cheers for the reply.

Im sure the 84's are going to work fine, ive never liked the highs being too prominent on a Jazz as i play with a pick and dont like the extra attack.
Saying that, i dont want a bass heavy, slightly muffled tone and whirl im sure this isnt going to happen i have it stuck in my head that it could.

[Sibob]

Mine has plenty of growl and clarity, it certainly isn't muddy, but yeah darker across the strings....but I'd just call that "more even"

Si

[dave_bass5]

Cheers.

[johnnylager]

84's wired in series is pretty P. They are certainly not muffled, Miller probably wouldn't fit 'em though.

[Mr Fudge]

[quote name='Sibob' post='866802' date='Jun 14 2010, 10:30 AM']Mine has plenty of growl and clarity, it certainly isn't muddy, but yeah darker across the strings....but I'd just call that "more even"

Si[/quote]


Just had 84's in my 97' Jazz which means that both my Jazz basses have 84's. I have not tried 64's. My thinking was that probably wouldn't be a massive difference from stock Fender ones, although of course I might be wrong.

Si sums it up perfectly IMO "growl and clarity" I love these pick up's. I hate actives but these give you a little edge and output on the stock fenders. A little more aggressive in output with all the great tone already described. For me personally they have been perfect and have to some extent quelled subsequent GAS.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Mr Fudge' post='866818' date='Jun 14 2010, 10:48 AM']I hate actives but these give you a little edge and output on the stock fenders.[/quote]

This has sold me on the 84's.

I was just getting in to using a BD21 (Sansamp) with my HW1 jazz when i sold it and got a Sub (and then a Ray34). ive been enjoying using Active for that extra bit of growl but also missing the more traditional bass tone (Jazz and P).
I know not to expect an active tone but i get what you mean and this will be ideal. Not sure i really want more aggressive but i guess it comes with the higher output and would come in handy.

Johnny. I might give that a go. Its not something ive done before but i got this bass to mod and that seems like a popular one to to.

Cheers all.

Edited June 14, 2010 by dave_bass5

[dave_bass5]

Well ive ordered a set of 84's so i guess this thread has done its job.

Cheers again.


So how do i put them in lol (just kidding).

[Mr Fudge]

nice 1,

[dan670844]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='866772' date='Jun 14 2010, 09:56 AM']Im all set to order a set of Wizards for my CV Jazz.
Ive had emails from Andy and based on what im asking for, he has recommended the 84's. I tend to agree with him but im just wondering if anyone has any comments to make about the difference in these two pups.
Are the 64's brighter but at the expense of less punch? I like the idea of more low end but dont want to get too muddy.
Im playing mainstream covers, and my cab has loads of mid punch already so i would prefer a smoother tone, but also as close to a P as i can get (i know i wont get too close).

Cheers.[/quote]

I use 64's and 84's in my Jazzes. Both pickups are very evenly balanced across the strings. The 64's are like classic Jazz pickups. The 84's the lows are more evenly represented and are very even, but they do loose some top end clank, and attack, which is most circumstances is an advantage! the 84's also have a higher output, which is also an advantage to get good loading on modern preamps
Both pickup sets are Scatterwound, you will notice the difference in clarity over most ther pickups out there, muddy they def ain't. They 84's pack a hefty punch, with great definition. From what you are saying I would agree with Andy, as I guess playing with a pick you get enough attack and In most instances you are probably cutting your 1-2.6 Khz a bit to reduce this. All in all these are pretty amazing pickups and for £70 pretty unbelievable.

[dave_bass5]

Cheers Dan.

That all makes good sense and i feel i have made the right choice. Clarity without the clank is ideal.
Although i dont normally cut any top end on the amp (i turn off the tweeter in the cab) i do watch out for it. Due to the way i rest the side of hand of the bridge i can sometimes get too much attack (although its fine on my Ray34).
I have enquired with Andy if its possible to have less of a dark tone without anything else being effected but its not a deal breaker and the order will stand.

Ill go and look up scatterwound as its not something i have heard of before but it sound sliek a good thing.

[Shambo]

I've got 84's in my S1 jazz and I think they tread a fine line. The stock american pups they replaced were alot quieter but there was more depth to the tone in that the highs were higher and they sounded more expansive, (only to my mind obviously). The 84's sound louder, fatter and bassier but lacked a little overall tone in comparison. Again though I must stress, it's a fine line because the 84's still sound good and seem to have found a good compromise between darkness (bass), whilst the higher notes growl more than they would ring out compared to the stock pups. Very suitable I would have thought for rock music, (which I don't really play... go figure).

Playing at volume during a practice the other day I remember thinking, "Christ,my bass sounds thunderous today!", but not in a bad way.

[dave_bass5]

Thanks shambo.

As im replacing squier pups im hoping the Wizards will be a bigger improvement. I do like the idea of more detail in the highs but im sure it will be there.
I gues si can always mix and match.
Im finding the bridge pup to be a bit lacking bite and volume and the neck pup to be quite full and round. Maybe i could just add one 84 at the back if i don't like the overal tone with both in.

[dan670844]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='866994' date='Jun 14 2010, 01:27 PM']Thanks shambo.

As im replacing squier pups im hoping the Wizards will be a bigger improvement. I do like the idea of more detail in the highs but im sure it will be there.
I gues si can always mix and match.
Im finding the bridge pup to be a bit lacking bite and volume and the neck pup to be quite full and round. Maybe i could just add one 84 at the back if i don't like the overal tone with both in.[/quote]

Stop worrying they will be fine! the CV pickups are good, but Wizzards are top notch and comparable to the Fender Custom shops which I used to use but they have higher clarity and are less fizzy if you know what I mean. Fit em enjoy, for pick playing they really are top notch, I cannot think of any other pickups which I would recc over these.

Most other pickups available today are machine wound, scatterwounds in this instance means they are handwound. Handwound pickups due to the random windings will for some reason pickup more from the strings have better clarity, depth and dynamics. The original fender pickups were scatterwound and we all know how good they are. Its the same with transformers, if you want a top notch transformer, they are still handwound. I have to say the differences are really not something you will hear unless you a listening on headphones, but you will feel it your guitar will feel a lot more responsive.

[dan670844]

[quote name='dan670844' post='867059' date='Jun 14 2010, 02:35 PM']Stop worrying they will be fine! the CV pickups are good, but Wizzards are top notch and comparable to the Fender Custom shops which I used to use but they have higher clarity and are less fizzy if you know what I mean. Fit em enjoy, for pick playing they really are top notch, I cannot think of any other pickups which I would recc over these.

Most other pickups available today are machine wound, scatterwounds in this instance means they are handwound. Handwound pickups due to the random windings will for some reason pickup more from the strings have better clarity, depth and dynamics. The original fender pickups were scatterwound and we all know how good they are. Its the same with transformers, if you want a top notch transformer, they are still handwound. I have to say the differences are really not something you will hear unless you a listening on headphones, but you will feel it your guitar will feel a lot more responsive.[/quote]

Sorry another thing the differences you hear in your current pup is probably that they are not a matched set. Wizzo and Fender CS and for that matter all the more expensive pickups are. But the problem you have there is easy sorted in the meantime. Just lower your neck pup a bit and/or raise you bridge to balance. On Jazzers the Neck pickup will always feel louder, because the string has more energy at this pickup position.

[dave_bass5]

Cheers Dan.

Im not really too worried, it more ive made a few bad judgement calls recently and so im a bit paranoid about buying anything untested at the moment.
funny enough all of my non gig playing will be through headphones but ill not worry about the what if's. Im really looking forward to getting them.

Normally i would have got some Fralins but im trying to cut down on the spending, im surprised at how cheap the Wizards are.

Cheers for the scatterwound info. That all makes sense now.

I do have the neck pup down a bit and the balence between both when both are on is nice. Probably nicer than my old HW1 but i do find the bridge pup a bit lacking compared to my old HW1 pup. Im sure that will be cured with the new pups.

[gary mac]

Dave. You will be delighted I'm sure. I fitted 84's to my Squier Jazz a couple of years back and have sinced played many a gig with it. To my ears it has sounded just right, suitably turbo charged but not harsh. Other bass players and even guitarists have complimented me on the sound.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='gary mac' post='868078' date='Jun 15 2010, 03:29 PM']Dave. You will be delighted I'm sure. I fitted 84's to my Squier Jazz a couple of years back and have sinced played many a gig with it. To my ears it has sounded just right, suitably turbo charged but not harsh. Other bass players and even guitarists have complimented me on the sound.[/quote]

Cheers Gary.

I have the 84's now so will put them in tonight if i can find some super glue lol.

After playing for a while last night i did feel the stock pups were a bit too mellow so im sure ive made the right choice.

Edited June 15, 2010 by dave_bass5

[gary mac]

How did the installation go then Dave?

[dave_bass5]

It all went very smoothly thanks.
The only thing that threw me a bit was the earth from the bridge pup was wired to the back of the tone pot. I know it doesn't make a difference as all the earths are connected but ive not seen that before, normally in my basses its been to the relative volume pot.

I didnt get to play it much last night but i can tell its got more punch and volume (i also put new strings on) but it does seem to have lost some very top end. I also didn't notice any extra growl but it could be that i need to play a bit more with the EQ so im not worried. It still sounds great.

I have two gigs at the weekend so ill give it a good test, im sure its going to be fine.

This is my third Jazz and i would say it sounds nicer than my Lakland DJ5 ever did, but also not quite as growly or bright as my HW1. But as i like the P tone i think it sits right in the middle and will work well, especially once i get the BD21 fired up.

I also plan on putting a active pre in, probably a Audere but thats much later on.

Edited June 16, 2010 by dave_bass5

[dave_bass5]

Hi All.

Ive just done my first gig with the 84's in and they sound good but i dont think ill be keeping them in.
I feel they lack brightness. As i said above, i feel ive lost some top end and while i dont like a tone thats too bright, i can tell these are just not right for me. No sparkle (or not enough for me anyway).

Im used to hearing a lot of overtones when i put new strings on, even XL's, and while i really like the tone of very new strings, but this new set ive got on already sound gigged if that makes sense. Its not the strings as they sound as they should acoustically.

Overall its a good, solid tone but i think i prefer the slightly more scooped Squier pups.

If i wasn't so lazy i think i would put the Squier pups back in for tonight's gig and see how much difference there is. But i am too lazy and really do want to give these a chance.

Does anyone know if Andy would be willing to re wind these for me (at a cost of course)? Ill email him on monday to see what he says, dont want to bother him over the weekend.

[gary mac]

Shame mate. Sure Andy will be as helpful as usual.

Like I said I love mine and haven't noticed any lacking in top end, but maybe the shuttle six and markbass cabs help to give me the sound I like.

Good luck with tonights gig.



Gary.

[dave_bass5]

Cheers Gary.

The gig went well. After a run of weddings it was actually nice to play a social club :-0. And because my drummer hates playing these clubs he tends to play a lot straighter (ie, doesnt make an effort), which means we sound much better.

The CVJ sounded better tonight. I think i would be happy to keep these pups if i have to, but i have emailed Andy to see if we can work something out. If its too much hassle (or money) then ill keep them in for now.

These pups certainly do get closer to a P than any other Jazz pups ive tried (not that many though) but it would be nice to have a bit more sparkle.