Beedster Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Well, I took the plunge and took my new Aria SWB along to rehearsal yesterday. Once the guys had got over the initial shock, and a few rather badly fumbled early notes (I've a total of 30 minutes playing time on EUB so far), it actually went pretty well. The main problem I felt was that at times it sounded too much like an electric bass. I'm guessing that there's a number of potential reasons for this, relating to EQ, action, strings, and playing style, so I would be grateful for any tips you more experienced guys can offer. I'm guessing the tone I'm after is something like that on 'Step Right Up' by Tom Waits. I've no idea what strings are on the bass, but given it's quite new I'm assuming they're stock. The Aria has just the one PUP under the bridge and the two band pre-amp. I'm playing through a Mesa Boogie Walkabout Scout 1x12 combo. The action feels pretty easy to me, that is, I was able to play the entire length of the neck for about 2 hours without any finger pain yesterday. Thanks in advance Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubrad Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 (edited) Hi Chris, My experience of these things is that most of them are solid body hence you get a solid body kind of sound. A bit more lively by means of a piezo pickup, but still solid body with all the sustain etc. I had a hollowbody EUB for a while, with a solid spruce top, which had a much more DB-like sound. I think that's the way to go.. at the mo I'm experimenting with a neck and some chunks of wood - aiming to introduce some element of hollowness. Strings-wise, most EUBs I've seen come with steel core strings; changing to synthetic core - Innovation are nice and inexpensive - generally gives a bit more mellow richness rather than bright punchy sustain. Also sometimes the stock pickups can be quite hard.. I use a Realist which is really rather natural sounding. Dunno what they do but I like it! Also amplification - electric bass gear will sound more, well, electric. Using a full range cab (a mate in Leeds uses a JBL PA cab) will give a bit more acoustic-ish tone. Edited June 14, 2010 by hubrad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 check this out Chris... [url="http://www.bespokebasses.co.uk/electric.html"]http://www.bespokebasses.co.uk/electric.html[/url] there's some sound clips on the site best sounding EUB AFAIC, i have one Piezo pup in the bridge same as any Upright and it doesnt sound like a big fretless they come up on Ebay from time to time john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endorka Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 [quote name='Beedster' post='866807' date='Jun 14 2010, 10:36 AM']The main problem I felt was that at times it sounded too much like an electric bass. I'm guessing that there's a number of potential reasons for this, relating to EQ, action, strings, and playing style... The action feels pretty easy to me, that is, I was able to play the entire length of the neck for about 2 hours without any finger pain yesterday.[/quote] If you've only had 30 mins flying time on an upright bass, and you can play for two hours without any finger pain, I'd say it is almost certain that the action is too low to be sounding like an acoustic double bass. I am not an advocate of "no pain no gain", but the action must be a certain height to allow you to get a decent amount of finger meat under the strings when doing jazz type pizzicato. For example, the action on my DB is moderate, but sufficient; at the 12th "fret" of the G string, it is 5mm under the string. Right hand pizzicato technique may need to be examined - if you are playing it like a bass guitar, it will sound like a bass guitar. To get the classic jazz pizz tone, you should use the side of the fingers rather than the tips. This is quite an involved thing, I made a recent post with a link to a Ray Brown masterclass where he describes it quite well. Will see if I can find it again. Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 Main control over the tone is in the right hand Chris so try plucking the strings with an upward direction (sort of straight out from the neck) and roll a little of the plucking finger flesh off the string as you do it. If you combine this with a good damping technique and a low mid strong eq (with highs dropped) you'll be surprised how thumpy you can get it. If you're going to the London bass bash bring it and I'll show you exactly what I mean although, I'm not 100% confirmed as going yet as my bread and butter gig is still taking late summer bookings. Jake Ps PM for more info (or ask here) if you like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 IMO, most EUBs sound like upright fretlesses. My Bassix small-bodied hollow EUB had three pickups: A magnetic pup at the heel of the neck, a piezo in the bridge, and a piezo bug mounted next to the f-hole. It sounded most acoustic with the latter pickup blended in. That's the one that made a difference. I would have said it would be tricky on a totally solid bass, but listening to the clips on slobluesine's Bespoke basses link, I'm prepared to think again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRev Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 As ahs already been said, a lot of the DB sound is in the fingers of the right hand. If you're using a bass guiray plucking technique i.e. with the fingertips, you're going to get a bass guitar like sound. Using the whole side of your finger, with as much 'meat' in contact with the string as possible will give you better tone. Dumping the stock strings will help too. I replaced mine with Helicore hybrids which was a big improvement, followed by Innovation Honeys which were really warm and mellow and tamed a lot of the Aria's inherent brightness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithless Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 I got an advice to put some orchestral strings on my EUB - they don't have lots of sustain, and they should kill the brightness, that EUB gives, so you should try it out on yours.. Secondly, as others mentioned, highening the action also helps.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 I read somewhere about using foam/rubber under the strings near the bridge to dampen the sound. I cut out a big chunk of foam for my Stagg and shaped it accordingly as there's far too much sustain without it. Definitely helped get more of a thuddy sound with a more suitable decay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBeatNut Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='866890' date='Jun 14 2010, 11:51 AM'].... and a piezo bug mounted next to the f-hole. It sounded most acoustic with the latter pickup blended in. That's the one that made a difference.[/quote] Is that something you buy (and if so where could I get one ?), or was it more a DIY thing ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted June 14, 2010 Share Posted June 14, 2010 [quote name='BigBeatNut' post='867039' date='Jun 14 2010, 02:15 PM']Is that something you buy (and if so where could I get one ?), or was it more a DIY thing ?[/quote] It was factory fitted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 Thanks very much guys. We recorded the session on Sunday and I was pleasantly surprised to hear that it sounded more upright recorded than it did in real time. I have to say I've fallen totally in love with upright in much the same way I fell in love with Kylie in about 1991 (and arguably with far greater chances of long-term success). Following a chance conversation after our last gig, and a real bit of kindness from the guy in question, I picked up a proper orchestral upright on free loan yesterday (it's huge....!), so I've been able to make some direct comparisons with the EUB. Action-wise, they're pretty much identical, and unplugged the tone of the EUB doesn't seem all that different to that of the upright (although a lot quieter of course). Plugged in the EUB is much bassier and has a whole lot more sustain, but rolling off the lows seems to make the sound rather thin. I think I'm going to focus on playing around with EQ and amplification/speakers for a while. Once I've got closer I'll get some different strings as per the recommendations above. I think the mute idea could be interesting but suspect I need to work how to do this with my hands as opposed to foam. Counter to what I expected, I seem to be able to play for hours without much pain or fatigue, so I guess my school-age cello playing experience is still in my nervous system somewhere? I've got some lessons booked however to make sure I don't get into bad habits. I'll keep you posted on the tone issue, and thanks again for the great advice above Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 PS I could really do some help with this EUB problem [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=91495&hl="]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=91495&hl=[/url] Cheers C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBus Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 I'm sure someone will recomend lessons sooner or later. If you don't want to go down that route you could always try Todd Phillips DVDs which would help on your technique. [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Todd-Phillips-Essential-Techniques-Acoustic/dp/B00024OR4Y"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Todd-Phillips-Esse...c/dp/B00024OR4Y[/url] Regarding EQ, I always roll off as much of the mids as I can which gives a much looser sound. My line goes: instrument mids cut - into MB Superbooster cut mids - into AI Contra with mids rolled off altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 [quote name='BassBus' post='867995' date='Jun 15 2010, 01:40 PM']I'm sure someone will recomend lessons sooner or later. If you don't want to go down that route you could always try Todd Phillips DVDs which would help on your technique. [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Todd-Phillips-Essential-Techniques-Acoustic/dp/B00024OR4Y"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Todd-Phillips-Esse...c/dp/B00024OR4Y[/url] Regarding EQ, I always roll off as much of the mids as I can which gives a much looser sound. My line goes: instrument mids cut - into MB Superbooster cut mids - into AI Contra with mids rolled off altogether.[/quote] Many thanks BassBus, coincidentally I ordered the DVDs yesterday. We're rehearsing tonight so I'm going to experiment with EQ, and scooping was first on my list. Cheers Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJ Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 [quote name='Beedster' post='868022' date='Jun 15 2010, 02:07 PM']Many thanks BassBus, coincidentally I ordered the DVDs yesterday. We're rehearsing tonight so I'm going to experiment with EQ, and scooping was first on my list. Cheers Chris[/quote] With DB I tend to set a reverse smiley. Ditch the treble and very lows and leave a mid strong tone that will cut through. Scooping may lead to not being heard. Experimenting is key though. Let us know what sort of eq that works best for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted July 28, 2010 Author Share Posted July 28, 2010 After much trial and error I've found that incorporating pretty much all of the advice above has made a big difference (e.g., action, pizz style, damping). Perhaps the only area of disagreement above was on EQ. I found that when pushing the mids or low mids, although the sound cut through better, was far too electric bass. Conversely, I found a big mid scoop emphasises the low resonances and gives voice to the percussive and mechanic component, something I've always associated with proper double bass playing. Many thanks for al the advice above folks Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 here go Chris.... [attachment=55195:lowdowndog.mp3] EUB or Upright? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulKing Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 [quote name='slobluesine' post='907920' date='Jul 28 2010, 10:19 AM']here go Chris.... [attachment=55195:lowdowndog.mp3] EUB or Upright?[/quote] Nice JC. Jumpin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted July 30, 2010 Author Share Posted July 30, 2010 [quote name='slobluesine' post='907920' date='Jul 28 2010, 10:19 AM']here go Chris.... [attachment=55195:lowdowndog.mp3] EUB or Upright?[/quote] I'm guessing EUB, only 'cos I'm supposed to say upright I take it that's the instrument in your post above? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Superlight EUB, steel strings and magnetic pickup, Mark Bass CMD12 combo with all the low mids taken out just like you said Chris, very close to the real thing and up against TWO pretty loud guitars, harp and drums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 [quote name='slobluesine' post='907920' date='Jul 28 2010, 10:19 AM']here go Chris.... [attachment=55195:lowdowndog.mp3] EUB or Upright?[/quote] Great clip, great tone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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