Bass rig recommendations

[Musicman20]

[quote name='51m0n' post='869903' date='Jun 17 2010, 02:13 PM']Something like an Aggy db212 then [/quote]

Tis one option, although plenty of others I guess to suit weight/size/budget.

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='allighatt0r' post='869543' date='Jun 16 2010, 10:50 PM']FWIW, I am currently using a Hiwatt 115 300w combo, which competes with 2 4x12 guitarists with ease. One using a Mesa double rectifier, and the other playing some stupid rack setup thing. [b][color="#0000FF"]You'd be surprised how little you need[/color][/b].[/quote]


[quote name='deepbass5' post='870413' date='Jun 18 2010, 12:22 AM']PUB gigs need lots of grunt, 4 x 10 on a beer crate with a big old solid state amp. loads to choose from but do you need better than your Peavey, like every one says they do the bizz and last. I have Markbss LMK a great punchy amp with head room. Dont go ashdown or Marshal. GK sound great. Go for front ported cabs to assist the sound forward, rear ported cabs i think are a cop out by the designers to build a smaller cab that meets the maths. I never think they sound as good. Think Eden real grunt.
With all those bodies up close got to go with a 4 x10 cab. [b][color="#0000FF"]500 watt head to cope 300 may run out of steam[/color][/b].[/quote]

Two very differing perspectives there. From my experience, there's not a lot of difference between 300w and 500w. I used to run a Laney B1 which is rated at 1500w into 2ohms IIRC. I was expecting so much power that I'd almost be afraid to turn it on, but because I ran it through two 'chip-as-chips' Marshall MBC410 cabs I had to turn it up to the point where the protection circuitry kept cutting in (very annoying). IMHO, the efficiency of your cab is far more important than the quoted power output of your amp.

Edited June 18, 2010 by bassman2790

[Lozz196]

[quote name='bassman2790' post='870451' date='Jun 18 2010, 06:53 AM']Two very differing perspectives there. From my experience, there's not a lot of difference between 300w and 500w. I used to run a Laney B1 which is rated at 1500w into 2ohms IIRC. I was expecting so much power that I'd almost be afraid to turn it on, but because I ran it through two 'chip-as-chips' Marshall MBC410 cabs I had to turn it up to the point where the protection circuitry kept cutting in (very annoying). IMHO, the efficiency of your cab is far more important than the quoted power output of your amp.[/quote]
Yes, very good observation there.

With my Marshall MB450H I used to, at gigs, run it through a Marshall MB410 Cab, and a Peavey TVX 210 cab, volume on 4. having bought a Marshall VBC 412 cab, I now use the same amp, same eq settings, through this one cab, with the volume on 2 - and the sound is so much "bigger/fuller". Bass that is felt, as well as heard.

[Conan]

So, as usual, everyone recommends what they use or used to use!

The OP's list is pretty eclectic and includes some very expensive items - TC RH450 for instance - so maybe budget is not a huge constraint? The "tough on the road" criterion though may be harder to fulfil. I notice there is no mention of "lightweight" there?

Having done years of pub rock/funk/pop/blues gigs in venues of varying sizes, I was never let down by my TE full-stack, but Jesus I didn't look forward to packing away at the end of the evening! If I had had the funds (and they had been available then) I would have loved a BareFaced Vintage or Big One...

My current Hartke/Ashdown rig definitely falls into the "budget" category - but it's incredibly loud and would stand a hit from a tactical nuke. The cabs, if anything, are TOO snappy and biting as I can't control the tweeters, but maybe that's down to my basses and fingers...

There is a HUGE amount of choice out there. Enjoy the search!

[xgsjx]

I use the MB 102P & it cuts through in a band situation with plenty to spare. Infact, I can overpower an overpowering guitarist & drummer when needs be & rarely go thru the PA unless it's a largish gig with subs.

[51m0n]

[quote name='deepbass5' post='870413' date='Jun 18 2010, 12:22 AM'].....Go for front ported cabs to assist the sound forward, rear ported cabs i think are a cop out by the designers to build a smaller cab that meets the maths. I never think they sound as good.....[/quote]


Oh dear, we arent still going around this myth are we....

Have you heard a Berg ae112 or ae210??

[stevie]

[quote name='Conan' post='870479' date='Jun 18 2010, 08:27 AM']The cabs, if anything, are TOO snappy and biting as I can't control the tweeters, but maybe that's down to my basses and fingers...[/quote]

You can reduce the output of your tweeter by putting some cotton wool in the horn - the more cotton wool, the greater the attenuation. When you've reached a level you're happy with, use a dab of glue or some double sided tape to make the tweak semi-permanent. It's not the most sophisticated solution to a shrieking horn, but it's quick and easy - and effective.

[51m0n]

A few thoughts/truths for you:-

You can never ever have too much power (thats why god made volume knobs) 500w into an efficient 410 or really good 212 will be enough for almost any pub gig. ANy more and you need a decent PA.

Some rooms are acoustically awful - nothing you can do about that but move your rig into a better position in the room

A rig at ear height sounds better for everyone, a rig on the floor (single cab) is very hard to hear the mids from. Result: you turn up too loud for the audience in the room

A rig close to the back wall (back of cab within 1') gets about +3dB boost from the boundary reflections. Use this to your advantage!

Deep bass sounds great on its own, turns to mud live and gives the FOH guy areal headache. Being heard is all about the mids...

Speaker diameter is not related to cab performance in any meaningful way, neither is port location. It just aint that simple people!!!!!!

Any modern amp putting out 500w into 4Ohm will do the job, its then a question of tone, reliability, weight and features (not to mention labels here but...)

Cabs are more important than amps, they produce more THD (excepting the case of a deliberate overdriving of the amp), have far more to do with the frequency response of the rig than the amp does, and the efficiency of the cab really does define the rigs real world volume.

Go play a bunch of amps and cabs and find something you like the sound of, then ask here if people think its really up to the job, or if there is a better alternative to get the same kind of tone....

Edited June 18, 2010 by 51m0n

[Conan]

What 51m0n said....

[Conan]

[quote name='51m0n' post='870528' date='Jun 18 2010, 09:47 AM']A few thoughts/truths for you:-

A rig at ear height sounds better for everyone, a rig on the floor (single cab) is very hard to hear the mids from. Result: you turn up too loud for the audience in the room[/quote]

Which has always been my justification for prefering the "full stack" over the "single cab solution". If I can hear myself I am less likely to overplay or dig in too hard, or constantly turn up while the audience are being deafened! Of course, the downside to this approach is that although my ear-level cab sounds great to me, there is another one beneath it throwing out similar noise that I can't really hear! So I may still be too loud!

Life is full of dilemmas...

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Low End Bee' post='869183' date='Jun 16 2010, 03:59 PM']I use a very un digital sounding Orange Terror head through a TC Electronics RS210 and an RS112.

The RS210 is easily enough on it's own for gigs and I use add the 1x12 just because I can. Anything that needs more volume than that gets PA assistance anyway.[/quote]


When did the Trace go?

[Delberthot]

Hmm. Many choices.

I've gigged with a Trace 4x12" and a Trace amp putting out 90w before and it was loud enough that I didn't need the full 90w.

If you want warm and are insistent on a tube preamp then get a Trace V-type combo or failing that a Hartke LH500.

Gallien Krueger are the bollocks and the whole reason I have gone back to them after trying many different heads.

This is my latest setup and without a doubt the absolute best sound I have ever had.

[url="http://img688.imageshack.us/i/dsc06298large.jpg/"][/url]


Trace V-type 2x15", 4052H and Gallien Krueger 700RB II


If you need anything louder then you're deaf and need to get to the audiologist to get fitted up with a hearing aid

Edited June 19, 2010 by Delberthot

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='51m0n' post='870528' date='Jun 18 2010, 09:47 AM']A few thoughts/truths for you:-

You can never ever have too much power (thats why god made volume knobs) 500w into an efficient 410 or really good 212 will be enough for almost any pub gig. ANy more and you need a decent PA.

Some rooms are acoustically awful - nothing you can do about that but move your rig into a better position in the room

A rig at ear height sounds better for everyone, a rig on the floor (single cab) is very hard to hear the mids from. Result: you turn up too loud for the audience in the room

A rig close to the back wall (back of cab within 1') gets about +3dB boost from the boundary reflections. Use this to your advantage!

Deep bass sounds great on its own, turns to mud live and gives the FOH guy areal headache. Being heard is all about the mids...

Speaker diameter is not related to cab performance in any meaningful way, neither is port location. It just aint that simple people!!!!!!

Any modern amp putting out 500w into 4Ohm will do the job, its then a question of tone, reliability, weight and features (not to mention labels here but...)

Cabs are more important than amps, they produce more THD (excepting the case of a deliberate overdriving of the amp), have far more to do with the frequency response of the rig than the amp does, and the efficiency of the cab really does define the rigs real world volume.

Go play a bunch of amps and cabs and find something you like the sound of, then ask here if people think its really up to the job, or if there is a better alternative to get the same kind of tone....[/quote]

Excellent post. That "God of gear" tag is starting to make sense!

A good quality amp through a sensitive cab is a no-brainer. Forget power handling and speaker size, good design produces the best sounds. It's all about finding what you like.
An Auralex Gramma pad helps no end to retain consistent sound from stage to stage, as well as eliminating boomy notes. I found this more useful than anything when trying to determine a cab's merits

[deepbass5]

Nice looking rig Delberthot, One thing we can all take from these posts is be prepared, If you have the amp with head room and an efficient cab to cope with most venues you should never be left wanting. I have been caught out in the past due to both crowd size, bodies really soak it up. and marquee jobs on damp nights with a crowd that are up for it. I popped a crossover in our PA bass bin at such a gig and when i opened it up the the wire mesh on the speaker vent was purple like an exhaust. Good ole Peavey. What most people are saying is multi speaker cabs 10's or 12" or stack. Stacks frighten people though a half stack may be a good halfway house 15 & 2x10. I used this for some years loved the sound but transport and your back has to come into the equation. 51m0n listed some good key points, one i learned was get your cab off the floor, carpet kills your sound. I made a trolley board for my cab to get it in and out but now always leave it on there to play. This gives a consistant sound, free of floor coupling just leaving the room accoustics to deal with.

[Yeatus Fajitus]

So it sounds like the MB Marshalls can be fragile as I thought, but there are other people out there who agree that the classic tone is pretty darn good.

I've not heard much from you folks on the Hartke kit I thought this gear was some of the more popular kit but I know from a couple of reputable chaps I used to work with this is good and will get me the sound I crave (rock sound with some valve warmth). I'm going to try a rig tomorrow but unfortunately they do not have any other hartke kit (different amp ranges/wattages) to compare it against.

Only one comment on the Markbass kit? I would be prepared to stump up for one of these if I thought it could replace a whole rig (because of the price) but to me that seems like wishful thinking. A rig of this kit would be way out of my budget.

I didn't think I'd be able to go all valve on the budget I've set myself but it seems some Marshall VBA 400s are on here and flea bay for a reasonable price and the MBC 412's can be found at a good price too should I consider these and the services of a good chiropractor? The price of a total valve replacement seems a bit pricey but do they need biased/paired valves?

Is the Galien Kreuger Neo 1001 - 212 any good? Is this all SS?


For further info several of the band members I have just joined have previously supported the likes of The Sweet and Innes Sibun at local rock events (usually played in a big marquee with full FOH for these shows) but we're planning pub gigs and more conventional functions too.

At the moment I seem to be getting more ideas for what I could use rather than actually pinning down on something I could spend my hard earned wonger on.

Can anyone recommend a music shop that has a good selection of these brands in stock? Marshall, Hatke, Gallien Kreuger and Markbass as I would like to try some head to head tests but every shop close to me or where I'm working only seem to have one manufacturers kit or a very limited selection.

[deepbass5]

knowone can or should say buy this!! You do need to try, but the maths will help ( effciency, dB, watts ) as will these guys with their experience. If cash is tight and usually is go for a new amp and second hand cab. Read reviews not sales blurb. Hartke amps are good and should cope fine but then make sure the cab you choose is efficient (rated dB at 1 metre) check out a few cabs db ratings. That means they will cope and do the job, it doesn't mean you will like their sound so when you get down to either Or situation try them out. I do rate GK gear and the new Neo cabs are good, they are efficient light and sound good a 2 x12" would probably do a treat. Mark bass amps are really good and i cant see me ever parting with mine but I think their cabs are over priced and there are better cabs about at a price. Mix and match just because someone makes a good amp it don't mean their cabs a just as good. On an earlier thread i didn't finish i mentioned blowing a crossover what i was to get round to is you can fry a speaker and it will take allot of punishment if it is a good make (large vented pole piece) It'll take more than the rated watts thats why they state program and continuos ratings. One thing that will bugger them is square waving an low watt amp into them. So not good having a 1000w 4 x10" and using a 150 watt amp wound up to 11 o'clock.

good hunting. Ebay is the place to pick up a bargin once you know what you want.

[xgsjx]

A whilst back I was in the same situation. Looking for a good rig for £800 ish & no idea what to get.
I posted on here & got all sorts of good advice & was stuck between an Ashdown rig (weighed a bit & was a touch too wooly for my ears), the Gallien Kruger RB 700 2x10 combo, the MarkBass 2x10 & the Roland 2x10 & 1x15 ext cab.
I tried all but the MB & decided to take a chance & got it sent from the Bass Merchant (whom I can recommend) & I've never regretted it. I've toyed with the idea of adding an extra cab for height, but I actually don't need it for volume.
I'd go & try as much stuff as you can tho.

[Yeatus Fajitus]

I've been conversing with Alex from Barefaced cabs and I'm liking the sound of their super 12, does anyone have any experience of these that they would care to share?

Alex has recommended me to try either an Orange Bass Terror or an Ashdown ABM 500 EVO III I've listened to them both on Youtube and think they both sound good but I think I prefer the sound of the ABM 500 just that little bit more, so I'm wondering what the consensus on either of these amps is?

And thanks to everyone for the input so far it's much appreciated because it has highlighted brands I had forgotten about or not heard of previously!

[Conan]

[quote name='Yeatus Fajitus' post='875984' date='Jun 23 2010, 11:05 PM']Alex has recommended me to try either an Orange Bass Terror or an Ashdown ABM 500 EVO III I've listened to them both on Youtube and think they both sound good but I think I prefer the sound of the ABM 500 just that little bit more, so I'm wondering what the consensus on either of these amps is?[/quote]

I wouldn't recommend that as a way of objectively comparing amps! Even if both clips were recorded properly under similar conditions, what you actually hear will owe more to your PC speakers of headphones than any real differences between the amps! You need to try them out "in the flesh" - through the same cabinet and with the same bass if you want to do a meaningful comparison...

[Conan]

I tried one of the older BareFaced compacts. It was hugely loud and had a very "shouty" midrange. I didn't have long to tinker with it and didn't use it at gig or rehearsal volume which was a shame. Have to say though that I was impressed with the build quality and VERY impressed with how light it was!

I'd love to try some of Alex's other gear...

[Yeatus Fajitus]

[quote name='Conan' post='876259' date='Jun 24 2010, 11:53 AM']I wouldn't recommend that as a way of objectively comparing amps! Even if both clips were recorded properly under similar conditions, what you actually hear will owe more to your PC speakers of headphones than any real differences between the amps! You need to try them out "in the flesh" - through the same cabinet and with the same bass if you want to do a meaningful comparison...[/quote]

Don't worry I will try them out in the flesh first! It would be nice to try them out in a band environment first though - ah well here's to wishful thinking! LOL