Is a rockabilly db very different from a jazz db? Dilemma for a learner?

[fatback]

Hi all,

Trying to think through the big leap to DB, do I have to choose immediately between Rockabilly and Jazz/blues directions?

First, is it best to learn Jazz style first?

Second, a little research suggests that rockabilly db has different strings, different bridge height and maybe adjustable bridge, for starters. Is that right?

Should I leave the rockabilly side until down the road a bit and then get a second db?

I also noticed a comment here that if you mean to busk you should go laminated with the bass?

Related to that, is changing humidity a big deal problem? I live by the sea, and it gets pretty damp

Thanks for your thoughts. Starting DB is such a big step, i'd like to feel I'm getting off on the right foot.

Edited June 17, 2010 by fatback

[steviedee]

They'll certainly be more knowledgeable guys than me but a lot of rockabilly guys favour lower tension strings like Innovation Silver Slaps and higher action. But loads of people slap and play pizz on the same bass so I don't think it would be a problem.

[fatgoogle]

If your near wexford you can try mine out if you want. I play jazz and classicla on the same bass, with the same setup.

[fatback]

[quote name='fatgoogle' post='870140' date='Jun 17 2010, 07:14 PM']If your near wexford you can try mine out if you want. I play jazz and classical on the same bass, with the same setup.[/quote]

I really appreciate the offer, thanks. Alas, I'm in Donegal. Not quite the furthest away i could be, but getting there


Steevedie reckons slap and piz can be ok on the same bass, so that's one doubt laid to rest, although I imagine that the higher tension of the jazz setup would make for some painful slapping?.

What about humidity and carved basses? And the business of suitability for outdoor playing / busking?

I'd probably prefer to trade off quality a bit in exchange for less worry and hassle.

Maybe I should agonise less and just go and buy the thing

[thisnameistaken]

I'm certainly no expert, but...

[quote name='fatback' post='870349' date='Jun 17 2010, 11:00 PM']Steevedie reckons slap and piz can be ok on the same bass, so that's one doubt laid to rest, although I imagine that the higher tension of the jazz setup would make for some painful slapping?.[/quote]

I've got hybrid strings ('orchestral' or so they say) on my bass which to me feel fairly stiff, they sound good bowed and plucked but I don't like the slap sound. My guitarist slaps it more than I do and he gets by but it doesn't sound great and he runs out of stamina pretty quickly with these strings.

[quote name='fatback' post='870349' date='Jun 17 2010, 11:00 PM']What about humidity and carved basses? And the business of suitability for outdoor playing / busking?

I'd probably prefer to trade off quality a bit in exchange for less worry and hassle.[/quote]

I bought a ply bass because I decided it would be a fair while before I'd be making any beautiful noises with a double bass, and I was intending to use it for busking and playing old soul/rocksteady tunes more than jazz or whatever. So I thought if it sounds fairly good and I'm not going to wince every time I crack it on a door jamb or scrape it on a flag stone then that's what I need.

Humidity is less of an issue for ply basses apparently. Carved basses - from what I've heard - can and do crack with heartbreaking regularity, especially if they aren't kept moist enough. But it's the bass drying out that is the biggest worry - winter is when the damage happens.

[fatback]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='870371' date='Jun 17 2010, 11:21 PM']I'm certainly no expert, but...

I bought a ply bass because I decided it would be a fair while before I'd be making any beautiful noises with a double bass, and I was intending to use it for busking and playing old soul/rocksteady tunes more than jazz or whatever. So I thought if it sounds fairly good and I'm not going to wince every time I crack it on a door jamb or scrape it on a flag stone then that's what I need.

Humidity is less of an issue for ply basses apparently. Carved basses - from what I've heard - can and do crack with heartbreaking regularity, especially if they aren't kept moist enough. But it's the bass drying out that is the biggest worry - winter is when the damage happens.[/quote]

That settles it. Ply for me. I can't be bothered being precious about an instrument. It's why I never buy pristine bass guitars

I'm not sure about low humidity - I have a feeling my house gets very very dry, but without measuring I can't be sure. Winters here can be dry with north and north west prevailing.

I think I'm a ply kind of guy

I guess there's good ply and bad ply too...

Edited June 17, 2010 by fatback

[thisnameistaken]

TBH I think the setup and the strings are the main thing - get those right and most basses will sound good. Of course, like any acoustic instrument, when you spend more money you can hear what you're paying for and I can totally understand why a great bassist (or intermediate / aspiring great bassist) would want a beautifully voiced carved bass. But for me, I would be doing it a disservice, and doing it a fair amount of damage in the mean time. It's best that I have a used ply bass that's already had the finish scraped off on every bout. The sound is still impressive to me - I don't really know any better.

[fatback]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='870414' date='Jun 18 2010, 12:22 AM']TBH I think the setup and the strings are the main thing - get those right and most basses will sound good. Of course, like any acoustic instrument, when you spend more money you can hear what you're paying for and I can totally understand why a great bassist (or intermediate / aspiring great bassist) would want a beautifully voiced carved bass. But for me, I would be doing it a disservice, and doing it a fair amount of damage in the mean time. It's best that I have a used ply bass that's already had the finish scraped off on every bout. The sound is still impressive to me - I don't really know any better. [/quote]

Do you have all ply or ply with carved top? Am I right a carved top is vulnerable too?

[thisnameistaken]

Mine's all ply. Like I said I'm no expert, I've never owned a carved bass, I don't know whether they genuinely have to be babied or if I've just heard exaggerated stories. To be honest I would like to try a quality fully carved bass now that I can almost play though, just to see what I'm missing tone-wise.

[fatgoogle]

Ive got a hybrid, carved spruce top, solid maple back and laminate maple sides. And it sounds outstanding. My teacher was very impressed when i turned up with after replacing my awful antoni bass. Ive had no problems with changes in temperature, as we had quite a cold winter for once, and the sun is out know and its withstanding it all great.

BTW i used to live in donegal, Convoy near letterkenny.

Edited June 18, 2010 by fatgoogle

[fatback]

[quote name='fatgoogle' post='870723' date='Jun 18 2010, 12:54 PM']Ive got a hybrid, carved spruce top, solid maple back and laminate maple sides. And it sounds outstanding. My teacher was very impressed when i turned up with after replacing my awful antoni bass. Ive had no problems with changes in temperature, as we had quite a cold winter for once, and the sun is out know and its withstanding it all great.

BTW i used to live in donegal, Convoy near letterkenny.[/quote]

I'm probly just fussing too much But the whole db thing is a bit daunting. Wish i didn't like the sound so much.

As for Donegal, love the place, but there aren't too many DBs and not many players either, I think. Best hope is to get an experienced player in Dublin to help me find a bass. Might have that sorted.

[janmaat]

There is plenty advise on cheap basses on different threads here, it seems to be gear4music or thomann best. Get a cheap laminate one but avoid Antoni - if you go for slapping, you want to spend some money on an ebony fingerboard as softwood will look like the grand canyon in no time (and if you busk and the rain gets into that...). So spend 500 quid on a laminate with hard wood fb, and then set it up the way you like - strings you like, action you like. That's the same with all instruments really, you'll customise the sound as you play, finding what suits you best. Make friend with other DB players - that will happen within the first 10 minutes after you got it.

Invest in a gig bag and a pickup with preamp.

You'll be more than happy with that until the following conditions for the noble bass are fulfilled: your playing ability craving for better tone; you own a house to store the thing in, and a cosy studio with stable climate; a van; and the 3 grand or so it costs to buy that thing.... good luck. start plywood

[fatback]

Thanks Janmaat. That's exactly what I'll do.

I had scoured all the db threads here, but mostly discussion about choosing between tlaminate and carved was on cost grounds, whereas i was more worried about practicality.

Where I live, the nearest regular Jazz is 2 hrs away, and anyhow lord knows if i'll ever hit that standard. So i'm reckoning on starting with some bluegrass and country, maybe busking a bit for a laugh, and then getting some slapping together for a bit of rockabilly. Not too healthy an agenda for a quality instrument

Sounds like if I got a better instrument in time, i could pimp the old one with a rockabilly setup and feel happy throwing it around.

Now I'm all excited.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='fatback' post='870776' date='Jun 18 2010, 01:41 PM']Sounds like if I got a better instrument in time, i could pimp the old one with a rockabilly setup and feel happy throwing it around.[/quote]

Exactly.

Now go buy one, they are amazingly rewarding to play.

[symcbass]

Ply all the way for slap. It's what most of us Rockabilly guys use.
As for string types, there are many brands and types which double for pizz and slap.
The Innovation Silver slaps are nice strings, I use Golden slaps with a gut G & D, as I find the Innovation G & D a bit twangy for slap.
Innovation Rockabillys are also nice. A good all rounder string. Low tension, easy on the fingers.
Enjoy your double bass journey, mine's been a blast so far.

[fatback]

Thanks for all the great advice guys. Really helpful:)

[PerryJ]

[quote name='fatback' post='870349' date='Jun 17 2010, 11:00 PM']What about humidity and carved basses? And the business of suitability for outdoor playing / busking?

I'd probably prefer to trade off quality a bit in exchange for less worry and hassle.

Maybe I should agonise less and just go and buy the thing [/quote]

I've been concerned about the same thing, particularly the hybrid. Apparently solid top basses sound better but, if the carved top hasn't been properly seasoned, they distort and split from the laminate/plywood that isn't affected by heat/humidity. Seeing as I live in a concrete box with windows at the front which needs a dehumidifier running 24 hours a day to prevent the entire flat becoming a self heating sauna in summer, I've decided to go with a full laminate bass. Mind you, I'm only regurgitating what I've learned from this place, so don't take my word for it!

[fatback]

[quote name='PerryJ' post='871397' date='Jun 19 2010, 12:47 AM']I've been concerned about the same thing, particularly the hybrid. Apparently solid top basses sound better but, if the carved top hasn't been properly seasoned, they distort and split from the laminate/plywood that isn't affected by heat/humidity. Seeing as I live in a concrete box with windows at the front which needs a dehumidifier running 24 hours a day to prevent the entire flat becoming a self heating sauna in summer, I've decided to go with a full laminate bass. Mind you, I'm only regurgitating what I've learned from this place, so don't take my word for it![/quote]

I'm thinking I may get one of those hygrometer thingys you use in greenhouses, and check humidity changes in the house over the autumn winter. Geeky, I know.

[fonzoooroo]

I do all my upright playing on a solid electric. Both rockabilly slap and pizz. It's 3/4 scale length and i've popped 4/4 steel core thomastiks on ,(for lower tension) the action's as low as I can get away with for slap, which makes it a fine general-purpose instrument. I've gigged it playing jazz, folk, rockabilly, even played some classic rock on it... so no issues with playability. I used to spend a fair bit of time over on: www.rockabillybass.com/ which was enlightening...

+1 on the comments about ebony fingerboards... The denser wood gives a higher pitch to the slap too.

[fatback]

[quote name='fonzoooroo' post='874232' date='Jun 22 2010, 10:47 AM']I do all my upright playing on a solid electric. Both rockabilly slap and pizz. It's 3/4 scale length and i've popped 4/4 steel core thomastiks on ,(for lower tension) the action's as low as I can get away with for slap, which makes it a fine general-purpose instrument. I've gigged it playing jazz, folk, rockabilly, even played some classic rock on it... so no issues with playability. I used to spend a fair bit of time over on: www.rockabillybass.com/ which was enlightening...

+1 on the comments about ebony fingerboards... The denser wood gives a higher pitch to the slap too.[/quote]

Thanks for the link. Didn't know about that site

[PaulKing]

[quote name='fatback' post='874451' date='Jun 22 2010, 02:43 PM']Thanks for the link. Didn't know about that site [/quote]

rockabillybass.com had a sex change. It now prefers to be known as doublebasschat.com

Do not fret about the carved vs hybrid vs plywood thing.
Yes, a carved top or all-carved will sound better, probably. But only in a way that a classical or pro jazzer would care about.
For your needs, there is NOTHING wrong with a good plywood. It is not a compromise, but a sensible practical choice. In fact a good plywood (old better than new ... but something like a Strunal 50/1 as sold at Thomann would do fine) will sound and perform better than a cheap hybrid, made with green wood that'll split.

Even with a carved bass, in the UK, humidity and heat isn't really as much an issue as it is in Texas / Alaska etc. That's where basses split in the winter... A good ply bass can take all manner of treatment and still sound amazing, inside, outsiode, bowed, plucked or slapped.
Good ply bass is exactly what all roots, bluegrass, country, blues, rockabilly is and was played on, by all the greats. Bill Black, Willie Dixon ... all plywood basses (eg Kay, King Mortone).
There are good ply basses being made today, Strunal, Englehardt ... under a grand, delivered to your door.

The strings mentioned (Innovation Silverslaps) will do perfectly well for jazz. Unless you have learned on bright steel strings and want that modern jazz / pop sound, like plenty of old jazzers you'll love the gut-like low tension, plummy fundamental sound.

Ply ply ply. Antoni is not the only name to avoid.... anything with an Italian sounding name under a grand is likely (but not guaranteed) to be a bit flimsy. Strunal, from Thomann. Good basses. I thin they call them 'Thomann 2' or something.

[fatback]

[quote name='PaulKing' post='874469' date='Jun 22 2010, 03:04 PM']Ply ply ply. Antoni is not the only name to avoid.... anything with an Italian sounding name under a grand is likely (but not guaranteed) to be a bit flimsy. Strunal, from Thomann. Good basses. I thin they call them 'Thomann 2' or something.[/quote]

Thanks Paul

Looks like I've got my spec at last:

All ply, European.
Adjustable bridge (matching the thread of Full Circle Pickups).
Ebony board
Possible replacement tail wire
Strings: Innovation silverslaps


Thomann 1E (Strunal) seems to fit the bill:

'3/4 scale laminated bass with swelled back and ebony fingerboard, single machine heads and adjustable peg, adjustable bridge. Colour: Golden Reddish Brown. €984 inc VAT'

I don't see a gear4music all-ply bass on their site.

So, I'll be looking out for an aged ply bass, but if that fails, the Thomann looks like the deal.

Thanks to all for the info. very much appreciated.

[PaulKing]

[quote name='fatback' post='875428' date='Jun 23 2010, 02:04 PM']Thanks Paul

Looks like I've got my spec at last:

All ply, European.
Adjustable bridge (matching the thread of Full Circle Pickups).
Ebony board
Possible replacement tail wire
Strings: Innovation silverslaps


Thomann 1E (Strunal) seems to fit the bill:

'3/4 scale laminated bass with swelled back and ebony fingerboard, single machine heads and adjustable peg, adjustable bridge. Colour: Golden Reddish Brown. €984 inc VAT'

I don't see a gear4music all-ply bass on their site.

So, I'll be looking out for an aged ply bass, but if that fails, the Thomann looks like the deal.

Thanks to all for the info. very much appreciated.[/quote]

There is a beautiful old Selmer on ebay right now, going at £600 at the moment. That is a CLASS bass, worth a grand at least.
Buy it if you can!

[PaulKing]

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140417953881&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT"]Visit My Website[/url]

4hrs left....

[fatback]

Just my luck, collection only.

is it you, Paul?

[edit] Not so, I see. If the current bid falls through i may be able to sort something.

Thanks for the heads up.

Edited June 23, 2010 by fatback