Can of worms

[The Funk]

My favourite bass stuff is when it's played in a supportive role and is groove- and chops- heavy.

The point of the technical guys is that they take the science of bass forward. The artists can then incorporate whatever they feel they need to express themselves.

I think Nate's point of some of these guys not being able to turn it off is an important one.

But nothing inspires me to develop my playing more than witnessing some of the Jaco/Stanley/Marcus/Victor/Steve Bailey/Bill Dickens excesses.

[chris_b]

My playing is firmly in the Duck Dunn camp, but I love watching people who can do stuff that I can't. Victor Wooten is great when he lets fly, but have you heard him in a supportive role with Bela Fleck? All that technique and all that restraint.... can't beat it!
I can get bored by bass virtuosos and dip in and out but what they do is as valid and relevant to the bass as an instrument as Mr Dunn.

[tauzero]

While I could only be bothered with watching ten or 15 seconds of Victor Wooten at top slap speed, when he's not going frenetic he can be very impressive - check YouTube for the Flecktones doing "Big Country", where he plays some beautifully fluid fretless.

I see the main role as a binding force which ties together the rhythm and the melody, but that's not to say that I think it should be purely supportive or that the binding force should be devoid of embellishment.

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='BeLow' post='96138' date='Nov 29 2007, 02:02 PM']It is my opinion I do not need to tell anyone I am right and they are wrong because they can have their own opinion.

.......

- but I should think twice about saying he is rubbish compared to anyone else.[/quote]

To be fair, I don't think anyone here has actually done iether of these things. People have simply said what they prefer to listen to and or/play.

This thread is is under 'General Bass discussion'. Its an exchange of views which, IMHO, does not have to 'go anywhere'.

Clive

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='SJA' post='96109' date='Nov 29 2007, 12:56 PM']yeah, it's an easy excuse to get out of learning theory, learning scales etc- I've been in bands with guitarists who sneer at technically advanced players when their own playing could benefit greatly from some practice and learning to expand their capabilities.

re. my own technique, i can't do double-thumbing, but then i have no intention to learn it either because the sound of it does nothing for me- ie. for fast playing i'd rather do it fingerstyle for tonal reasons.[/quote]

Forgiving me I'm mis interptreteing you, but don't these two paragraphs sort of contradict each other?, or is that intentional?

Clive.

[stevebasshead]

I think it's a case of whether we're impressed by technique or moved by a piece of music. Subjectivity being what it is that will differ for person to person.

Technique though doesn't just include what's generally viewed as the flashy stuff, even simple grooving takes technique to really get it flowing IMHO (e.g. a slight string bend in the right place to flow from one note to another.)

At the end of the day it's easy to overplay any instrument for the sake of it, after all as a certain Mr Entwistle once said, "it's not a bass, it's a bass [b]guitar[/b]"...and we all know guitarists who don't know when to stop too! But there I go getting all subjective again

[SJA]

[quote name='Clive Thorne' post='96290' date='Nov 29 2007, 06:55 PM']Forgiving me I'm mis interptreteing you, but don't these two paragraphs sort of contradict each other?, or is that intentional?

Clive.[/quote]

they might be contradictory - I might be guilty of using that excuse.

slapping that fast doesn't interest me at all, though- it just seems like its sole purpose would be impressing other bassists.
if you take Wooten's Classical thump- it's quite a nice composition, but IMO double-thumbing the notes out that fast spoils it as a listener.

Edited November 29, 2007 by SJA

[lee4]

[quote name='Nate' post='96097' date='Nov 29 2007, 12:38 PM']Theres a place for all of it methinks. I can understand why people don't like some of the insane bass stuff. It does however, mean we're pushing a relatively young instrument forward... I'm all for progression - not preservation. Yeah, Jamerson was absolutely amazing but if he had seen Victor play, i'm sure he'd say - wow!

I have a horrible feeling that some (not all) people don't like the bass gymnasts because of their own playing insecurities though...

Playing grooves certainly pays the bills but I think chops are a necessary part of being a musician. Didn't do Jaco any harm...

The problem with most people who do that stuff is, they can't shut it off. I wouldn't book Dave Weckl on drums for a straight ahead Covers gig because I don't think he would play Mustang Sally as the punters would want...! (That last bit made sense in my head...)

N[/quote]
I freely admit that I'm no solo player,but thats because I've never needed to do one(If asked now I give them 4 bars of silence and drink my pint!)

[fragility]

While all the solo type stuff isn't exactly my cfavourite style of bass playing, I also think there's a place for everything and let's face it, that kind of stuff is far more visually interesting. Hence why youtube is likely to be dominated by that sort of thing

[LukeFRC]

some crazy stuff is good, but only when it is used musically rather than showing off.
i grabbed a cheap weather report record and say teen town (jaco on the bass) sounds ace, its only when you start thinking how would you play that you realise its so technically good. its where you hear summit and go wow thats so well played but cant hear the music through the playing i get completely bored.

[SMART]

Technique with any instrument (and I was a drummer before...bit like Mr King really!) will always improve any musicians ability to make a greater and better contribution whether it's R&B, disco, (yes, think Bernard Edwards the master!), funk, rock, jazz and the list of genres goes on...not forgetting the space in between (isn't that a great track from Roxy Musics 'Avalon'??) as important a part of any technique in the groove and...the music

Talking about space as well as technique and musicality, listen to Randy Hope Taylor and Julian Crampton as part of Incognito. A great demonstration of all the necessary parts of the whole that make interesting and enjoyable bass playing in both supportive and more prominent roles.

(Philosopy time!) At the end of he day it's all about that great thing called music which is so diverse and open to being challenged and changed and experimented with whether it's as a solo artist or as part of a band. And if it's good enough then people will come and listen or else you need to decide it ain't working.

Flash bass technique is great at shows and 'Bass Days' around the world but as with any technique whether it's a Motown groove or a Mark King Level 42, technique should always be a contributing part of the music and not the reverse. For example, Pino Paladinos opening bars for 'Don't Look Down' by Go West, he could not have pulled (no pun intended!) that superb 80s pop intro off without technique but it was part of the music at that point of the song. The rest of Pinos ability we all know so well.

But at the end of the day its' all about the music that people will want to hear?

Just some thoughts!

Ciao

Ian

Edited December 2, 2007 by SMART

[paul, the]

+1 to the first few posts and anyone who agrees with them

[quote name='PaulMartin' post='95823' date='Nov 28 2007, 09:48 PM']What really impresses me though is when the bass player is playing melodically, yet it makes the song. For instance a lot of James Jamerson's playing is almost like a bass solo all the way through the song, but it never sounds like overplaying.[/quote]

Same here. That's the absolute pinnacle, in my opinion. Players like Jamerson, Bakithi Khumalo and the best jazzers that manage to hold a tasteful groove whilst playing a musically and technically complex melodic lines that add to the musicality of the song.

I can count the number of electric bassists that have mastered that on one hand.

Edited December 2, 2007 by paul, the

[Mr. Foxen]

Back to youtube videos, when my mates realised I was getting pretty serious at learning to play bass, they kept sending me links to youtube w***fests. I did pick up lots of odds and end of technique from using them, my time spent without any sort of band I spent practicing technique ('broadening my tonal palette' is the pretentious term I think), but not many I could actually listen to as music. One I did like though was Fingersmoran stuff, bass and drums, did enjoy that, would pick up an album if I saw one browsing. All the same people that sent me those links get annoyed when play something widdly though, which I totally enjoy, but it is generally confined to the bedroom, on my own, and my wrist aches afterward.

[stingrayfan]

[quote name='Johngh' post='96105' date='Nov 29 2007, 12:52 PM']Mark King is one of the few players that did more to show Joe Public that the Bass can be played in this way than anyone else. Most people think that Bass is just there there to go bum de bum de bum !!!!! Mark changed that, and I think he was also responsible for inspiring a lot of people to take up bass who maybe would never have bothered.[/quote]
He's a great musician, no question but I actually prefer his fingerstyle than his slap. He's got an amazing feel for damping and leaning into notes. Use that all the time.

But I agree, the YouTube showboating is a bit boring to watch after a while. It's often about know when not to play that when to stick another 14 notes in.

[6stringbassist]

I love seeing all the solo bass stuff, it can be done so why shouldn't it.

Who says that bass should only have 4 strings, and play just a supporting role.

I know that it's traditional for it to do that, but if we'd always stuck rigidly to what was traditional then where would we have got.

The electric bass is only 50 years old, a young instrument, we should be pushing for it to fulfill what ever role it can, and trying to implement many colours and ideas, not one articulation.

Just my opinion of course.

[guitarnbass]

I think, if you want to play solos, play a guitar, or another suitable instrument. These bass guys, the only people that buys their music are bassists, and I don't believe that's cause it's a 'refined' taste, I think it's cause it's sh*t LOL. I mean, there are some great players around who make you go wow, but for me, it's become tiring, and I crave for simplicity.

[6stringbassist]

[quote name='guitarnbass' post='97710' date='Dec 2 2007, 06:24 PM']I think, if you want to play solos, play a guitar, or another suitable instrument. These bass guys, the only people that buys their music are bassists, and I don't believe that's cause it's a 'refined' taste, I think it's cause it's sh*t LOL. I mean, there are some great players around who make you go wow, but for me, it's become tiring, and I crave for simplicity.[/quote]


Personal taste isn't it.

But I'd say that most solo things have a niche market, how many non-musicians have heard of Alan Holdsworth for example or Eberhardt Weber.

Why should I buy a guitar if I want to solo, and seeing how there are many fine bass players who make a living, and sell albums by playing bass, I don't see how bass can be considered as an unsuitable instrument, especially if it's an extended range instrument .

[nick]

[quote name='lee4' post='95796' date='Nov 28 2007, 08:57 PM']I recently watched some Bass solo vid's on Youtube and I was suprised by how much they did NOT interest me.I feel like a traitor to bass players everywhere.I found I did'nt get off on extra fast shredding,or two hand taps.Slap by Wooten,sorry,not for me.I'm more impressed by a good groove or run in a song.I know that I will get some flak for this but I feel its time to come clean;to me bass is supportive.[/quote]

I couldn't agree more with you too -_-

Would be interesting to see a poll on which camp, most bassists sit; Jaco or Macca, Mani or Flea.....etc?

[stingrayfan]

[quote name='guitarnbass' post='97710' date='Dec 2 2007, 06:24 PM']These bass guys, the only people that buys their music are bassists, and I don't believe that's cause it's a 'refined' taste, I think it's cause it's sh*t LOL.[/quote]

[guitarnbass]

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='97730' date='Dec 2 2007, 07:06 PM']Personal taste isn't it.

But I'd say that most solo things have a niche market, how many non-musicians have heard of Alan Holdsworth for example or Eberhardt Weber.

Why should I buy a guitar if I want to solo, and seeing how there are many fine bass players who make a living, and sell albums by playing bass, I don't see how bass can be considered as an unsuitable instrument, especially if it's an extended range instrument .[/quote]

Well, fact is, most people don't want to hear it! Personally I couldn't be happy taking part in a music that attracts such a tiny audience. I think it's also kind of an embarrassing and uncool music to be into, but that's just me..

[Bassman7]

[quote name='guitarnbass' post='97763' date='Dec 2 2007, 08:05 PM']Well, fact is, most people don't want to hear it! Personally I couldn't be happy taking part in a music that attracts such a tiny audience. I think it's also kind of an embarrassing and uncool music to be into, but that's just me..[/quote]


Ed Straker says: "Colonel Foster has just reported in and says they've found a CD by Mick Manring and somebody called Wooten (label was charred) in the UFO wreckage! Trust the aliens to go for some obscure bass guitar music, must be some code in there...better get SHADO intelligence to check 'em out!"

Photo caption: Alien to Foster: "When we get out of this, can you get me tickets to a Victor Wooten concert?" Foster to Alien: "Does he play cello?"

[6stringbassist]

It's a good job we don't all think like you.

Jaco would never have torn the frets from his jazz bass, Larry graham might never have put thumb to string, John Entwistle would have left his treble control set flat etc.

Most people probably don't, that's personal taste, but an awful lot of people do, there wouldn't be this sort of thing going on otherwise [url="http://www.unpronounceable.com/solobassnight/"]http://www.unpronounceable.com/solobassnight/[/url]

As for embarrasing and uncool, how can being a talented musician be embarrasing and uncool, I'd rather listen to someone talented trying something different, than a mediocre bass player playing something that's been done by thousands of other people thousands of times, now that is boring.

Just my opinion of course.

[guitarnbass]

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='97770' date='Dec 2 2007, 08:22 PM']It's a good job we don't all think like you.

Jaco would never have torn the frets from his jazz bass, Larry graham might never have put thumb to string, John Entwistle would have left his treble control set flat etc.

Most people probably don't, that's personal taste, but an awful lot of people do, there wouldn't be this sort of thing going on otherwise [url="http://www.unpronounceable.com/solobassnight/"]http://www.unpronounceable.com/solobassnight/[/url]

As for embarrasing and uncool, how can being a talented musician be embarrasing and uncool, I'd rather listen to someone talented trying something different, than a mediocre bass player playing something that's been done by thousands of other people thousands of times, now that is boring.

Just my opinion of course.[/quote]

I didn't say a bass player can't be inovative or be more creative with his lines, but what you said about pushing the boundaries, come on, it's all been done before, I don't believe there's any greater role a bass can play in a popular music genre, but then.. I'm sure there's a few new ways to tap at lightspeed and whatnot for the handful of bassists around the world that might be interested in that kind of birdshit. LOL

[David Nimrod]

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='97770' date='Dec 2 2007, 08:22 PM']Most people probably don't, that's personal taste, but an awful lot of people do, there wouldn't be this sort of thing going on otherwise [url="http://www.unpronounceable.com/solobassnight/"]http://www.unpronounceable.com/solobassnight/[/url]

"Dave will perform a 7-string bass arrangement of Sonata No. 1 in G minor for Solo Violin by J.S. Bach and various original compositions."[/quote]


Sorry Dave, but I'd rather listen to Dr. Feelgood than your 'arrangement of Sonata No. 1 in G minor for Solo Violin by J.S. Bach' thankyou very much!

[guitarnbass]

and

[quote]Founding member of Nuclear Rabbit and accomplished extended range bass player, Jean will perform original compositions, improvisations and video game music on his 11-string Ken Lawrence "Joust" bass.[/quote]

LOL says it all really..