Royalties

[BassMunkee]

Hi,

I'm now in the position of having my own recording contract which is great and all, BUT - I need to sign up with recording rights organisation of some sort.
The problem is is that I am not sure who to go with.
The record label I am with is a - I guess - distribution label, if you see what I mean. The music I write would be commercially available and might end up being played publicly but is very unlikely to be played live.
I've heard BMI are quite good, but then a lot of people say go to PRS as I am a UK citizen.
In truth it seems a bit confusing and I would be very grateful of any help any of you guys could provide.

Thank you very much!!

[Mykesbass]

PRS are now allied to MCPS - PRS do the live stuff, MCPS the mechanical copyright. BMI will collect for you but via MCPS. You could also investigate the European agencies - it really depends where the music is going to sell - they all end up working together, so it is probably easiest to go with the UK company. The rates may vary slightly but not enough to make a huge difference unless you are selling vast amounts! Also, if you do have a deal, it may be worth talking to publishers, especially some of the better indies, who actually work the music for you to ad agencies, film companies etc. Publishing deals are a lot better than the used to be.

[lowdown]

If you live in the UK - PRS-MCPS.
If its for broadcast or even some online situations [ anything media really], they will collect from other collections agencies worldwide,providing cue sheets have been registered of course.
I have quite a lot of stuff with production and library companies being used world wide,
And PRS do a great job of collecting.
So PRS is a must.

Cetera will be along at some point [ i think he has some kind of job at PRS]
And his methods can be quite persuasive, boiling oil i believe .


Garry

Edited June 23, 2010 by lowdown

[Major-Minor]

I'm a member of PRS - MCPS. Although most of my production/library music is published by foreign companies (Sonoton in Germany / Denis Music in Holland / Stock in Belgium / etc etc) , the royalties are all channelled through PRS.
When I joined many years ago, you had to have something like 6 compositions already published before they accepted you. That may well be different now. And there was a nominal joining fee (£50 ?).
But over the years I've had some quite nice royalty payments. And they seem fairly efficient. You can view a list of all your "works" online.

And if you perform on your own tracks (or anyone else's), you also need to be a member of PPL so you can get performance royalties.

The Major

[Major-Minor]

To be clear: (and in the broadest terms)
PRS (Performing Right Society) deal with the royalties from the PERFORMANCE (or broadcast) of the composition.
MCPS look after the "mechanical" royalties - in other words, the royalties accruing to the owner(s) of the recording.

Most of us sign a percentage of our copyright over to a publisher or record company who then do all the leg work of getting our music out there.

If a record company puts up the money for a recording (studio time / musicians fees etc), then THEY own that recording and get the "mechanicals", and, if you are the composer, you will only get the PERFORMANCE royalties (through PRS).

When a piece of music is broadcast (on TV /radio / the web), a "royalty" is generated (paid by the broadcaster). This is split into different sections (sorry, don't know the percentages) to cover the composition, the performance, and the mechanicals.
I've played on several hundred "classical" CDs, and get small payments from PPL (Phonographic Performance Ltd) that accrue when these CDs are broadcast around the world. The performer's percentage of the "pie" is, I believe, quite small. And when this is divided between maybe 90 players in the orchestra, we all get minuscule amounts ! But ever little bit helps !

The Major

[BassMunkee]

Hmm, well my contract is a non-exclusive one and I actually have full control over content, artwork, writing, blah-de-blah. The company is I think a distributor - (aggregator?).
On reading through what you guys have said and upon checking out the PRS website it looks to me like I actually need an MCPS for writers agreement rather than a PRS one as I'm looking at my music being commercially released but not really looking at it being performed live.
To be honest I would rather it was PRS because PRS is only a tenner and MCPS is £50 up front!!
However to sign up for either you have to have already had something released and whilst I have had that with a previous band I haven't as a solo artiste (lol) yet so it's all a bit moot till the EP/album gets finished and put out there anyway.
Thank you for all your help though, the whole royalties thing does seem to be a little confusing for sure.

[Major-Minor]

[quote name='BassMunkee' post='874141' date='Jun 22 2010, 09:05 AM']Hmm, well my contract is a non-exclusive one and I actually have full control over content, artwork, writing, blah-de-blah. The company is I think a distributor - (aggregator?).
On reading through what you guys have said and upon checking out the PRS website it looks to me like I actually need an MCPS for writers agreement rather than a PRS one as I'm looking at my music being commercially released but not really looking at it being performed live.
To be honest I would rather it was PRS because PRS is only a tenner and MCPS is £50 up front!!
However to sign up for either you have to have already had something released and whilst I have had that with a previous band I haven't as a solo artiste (lol) yet so it's all a bit moot till the EP/album gets finished and put out there anyway.
Thank you for all your help though, the whole royalties thing does seem to be a little confusing for sure.[/quote]
I think you've misunderstood the "Performance" bit of PRS !

This (mostly, these days) refers to the "performance" of your composition by the CD ! When your track is being broadcast it (the "work") is being "performed".

MCPS is the collecting society predominantly for publishers and record companies. My own MCPS returns are quite small as I own only a small percentage of the mechanical copyright.

I guess you might have to set up your own publishing company to get the most out of joining MCPS.

And yes it's all very confusing. I think I know what I'm talking about - but maybe someone else on here will think otherwise !

The Major

[BassMunkee]

[quote name='Major-Minor' post='874178' date='Jun 22 2010, 09:54 AM']I think you've misunderstood the "Performance" bit of PRS !

This (mostly, these days) refers to the "performance" of your composition by the CD ! When your track is being broadcast it (the "work") is being "performed".

MCPS is the collecting society predominantly for publishers and record companies. My own MCPS returns are quite small as I own only a small percentage of the mechanical copyright.

I guess you might have to set up your own publishing company to get the most out of joining MCPS.

And yes it's all very confusing. I think I know what I'm talking about - but maybe someone else on here will think otherwise !

The Major[/quote]
Ah, now I understand - I thought it meant "performed live"! So I suspect I actually need to join both as they both seem to cover slightly different aspects...
I think if I do that then I have myself covered either way rather than just signing up with the wrong one!

[BigRedX]

You're best bet for sorting out all the royalty collection agencies and which ones you need to be a member of is to get advice from the MU. That's what they are there for. You are a member aren't you?

[BassMunkee]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='874202' date='Jun 22 2010, 10:13 AM']You're best bet for sorting out all the royalty collection agencies and which ones you need to be a member of is to get advice from the MU. That's what they are there for. You are a member aren't you?[/quote]
Um no?

[BigRedX]

I would say that you should be seriously considering joining the MU if you are hoping to be making money out of your recording(s). Not only will they be able to give you up to date advice about which of the royalty and rights organisations you should join, but they will also be able to look over any recording and distribution contracts you are going to be asked to sign. I hope you haven't actually signed anything yet?

Edited June 22, 2010 by BigRedX

[lowdown]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='874202' date='Jun 22 2010, 10:13 AM']You're best bet for sorting out all the royalty collection agencies and which ones you need to be a member of is to get advice from the MU. That's what they are there for. You are a member aren't you?[/quote]


PRS-MCPS site is the best for the advice.[Thats what they are there for]
MU advice on this stuff is limited, they do not do collection for royalties. [ they will point you towards PRS]
And as The Major has said - possibly [b]PPL[/b] as well.....
It all can mount up in payments you have earned.



Garry

[firmo]

Sorry for what is probably a very silly question...

I play in a band locally (originals so not much money involved!) and when we get paid it's always cash in hand. Would signing up to PRS etc mean we would have to be declaring the earnings and then have to complete tax returns etc? Could all end up costing more than it'd be worth if that was the case that's all... Could be better off waiting for something big-ger happens and then re-think about it then?

Thanks
Kevin

[BassMunkee]

Well that clarifies things for me, thank you very much all, it's off to the PRS for music site for me I think.
Thanks a lot all.

[Major-Minor]

[quote name='firmo' post='874221' date='Jun 22 2010, 10:33 AM']Sorry for what is probably a very silly question...

I play in a band locally (originals so not much money involved!) and when we get paid it's always cash in hand. Would signing up to PRS etc mean we would have to be declaring the earnings and then have to complete tax returns etc? Could all end up costing more than it'd be worth if that was the case that's all... Could be better off waiting for something big-ger happens and then re-think about it then?

Thanks
Kevin[/quote]
When you go down the road of joining things like PRS,PPL or whatever, you will be very much more on the radar of the Inland Revenue.
Of course, ALL earnings are taxable, and if you don't declare the cash in hand gigs, you could end up getting in trouble ! However, it is common amongst musos to "forget" about the odd bit of cash payment - but it is a risk.

To be honest, its not worth joining a collecting society unless your music generates some collectable royalties. If you play in venues that are PRS registered, then you might get a small royalty occasionally, as long as the venue fills in the forms correctly. But it will be small amounts (just pennies) and PRS don't pay up till you have accrued something like £50.

If your recorded tracks get played on radio, then something a little more substantial will be forthcoming. But we are still talking relatively small sums. It depends on the listener "reach". Local radio rates are much smaller than national.

If however your track gets used in an advert or a film or a syndicated TV programme, then you may start to get 100s of pounds.

Most of my royalties come from abroad. So for instance, I have had tracks used for TV advertising campaigns in Japan that have turned over very nice sums, thank you very much !
But a lot of the time I get royalties of a few pence each for my tracks because they have been used on a local radio station in somewhere like South Africa or Ukraine.

But I've also written a lot of music for live performance. Something played at for instance the Bridgewater Hall in Manchester will give me a royalty of a few pounds (depending on length). But a work that I wrote for an on going Education project that has been performed several hundred times, earns no PRS when we perform it in schools because schools are exempt from performance royalties. But I did get a big fat cheque when it was broadcast on Radio 3.

By the way - you can't just join PRS or MCPS because you fancy it ! You have to have published material already out there. They are collecting agencies after all, and if there is nothing to collect, they will not be interested in you !

The Major

[firmo]

Thanks a lot for that The Major, cleared that up for me perfectly.

[cetera]

[quote name='Major-Minor' post='874326' date='Jun 22 2010, 12:12 PM']By the way - you can't just join PRS or MCPS because you fancy it ! You have to have published material already out there. They are collecting agencies after all, and if there is nothing to collect, they will not be interested in you ![/quote]

This isn't true. You don't have to be published, you just have to have some evidence that your music is being performed live or has been licensed for a product or commercial release....
After all, there is no point joining if you aren't likely to earn any royalties.

It is currently £10 to join PRS but you don't pay this, it is simply taken from your first earnt royalties....

[BigRedX]

Bargain!

Anyone who's a composer/songwriter with music available to buy/download needs to be a member.

[Major-Minor]

[quote name='cetera' post='875193' date='Jun 23 2010, 10:51 AM']This isn't true. You don't have to be published, you just have to have some evidence that your music is being performed live or has been licensed for a product or commercial release....
After all, there is no point joining if you aren't likely to earn any royalties.

It is currently £10 to join PRS but you don't pay this, it is simply taken from your first earnt royalties....[/quote]
I'm sure you are right. But when I joined many years ago, I remember having to send the cassette tapes (this was before CDs!) of my music that had been released.

And I think they must have reduced the entry fee - I'm sure it was more like £50. But then my memory is failing (or so my wife keeps telling me!)

The Major