Bilbo Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 What's that book, Pete? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='97961' date='Dec 3 2007, 09:52 AM']What's that book, Pete?[/quote] Ultimate Slap Bass, by Stuart Clayton, www.basslinepublishing.com . Stu posts on this forum occasionally. It's an excellent book IMHO, which starts from absolute basics and goes right through to stuff in the advanced section that I can't get close to, like double thumbing. Includes 2 CDs and interviews with some of the usual suspects. Stu, if you're reading this used fivers will do nicely ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Metronomes? I agree with Jeff, [i]feel[/i] the music in your heart, lock in with the drums, [i]feel[/i] the groove, and just enjoy playing music. F*** metronomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odub Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Hmm, My two cents, if you can play along with a metronome in time, then bully for you, choose to practice with one or not. If you can't play along with one in time (like me) then your timing is out, practice with one till you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 (edited) One thing that has not been mentioned much is the use of a metronome to check you're not speeding up/slowing down when practising on your own. ie, not the timing withing the bar (ahead or behind the beat etc), but maintaining the corect pace throughout a tune. When I started playing music, (on a squeeze box - so generally playing the melody) I was terrible for speeding up. I bought a metronome and, once I'd realised that it was working OK and not slowing down!!, it was a great aid to ensuring I kept the pace steady. Regarding the timing before/on/trailing the beat I tend to think that this is a matter of feel - playing what's right for the tune rather than analysing what your actually doing. Clive. Edited December 3, 2007 by Clive Thorne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 [quote name='Crazykiwi' date='Dec 2 2007, 10:35 PM' post='97835'] Mate you should have seen the drummers we turned down! When you're making a bit of money suddenly every pro out there wants to be best mates. ). Yer some of the so called [u]'PRO'S' [/u][b][/b]should use the money to buy a metronome.. Or maybe just buy a gnome and stay in the garden and talk about what sticks they use. Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 You should use metronomes when practicing. There really isn't a downside to it.... Someone wrote "feel the music in your heart", "lock in with the drums". If i'm just playing on my own and need to be metronomic - My having played along to a click in practice will help! It also lets you see who else has good/bad time... There really isn't a bad point to be made. Check out Victor Wootens "Ten Elements of music" (the 4th one) - the excersise is a great one to improve time. It involves playing along to a groove and playing without...you'll see when you check it www.bassplayer.tv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheBigBeefChief Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Jeff Berlin is a nonse and if I met him, I would fight him. With fists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='97866' date='Dec 2 2007, 11:31 PM']Matey, the burden of proof is on you in claiming I'm wrong. If you can't prove your claim then it has no credibility. [/quote] Prove I am not right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 With Sequencer software and there cheaper cut down versions... You can easily practise with drum/chord grooves , which makes it much more interesting for the musical ear..and help give you the feel for music. [Remember...thats what its all about at the end of the day. Its very easy for Jeff Berlin to say that there is no need... But he has had over 30 years playing with Human metronomes...[Some of the best drummers] AS for not in Classical...? Whats the Guy in a Penguin suit in front of a 90 piece Orchestra doing.. Waving to his mum..? Any aid to making you into a better musician , is gotta be good for you.. Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blamelouis Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Time has to be internalised, if your out of time you dont know the piece backwards like you should do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenofthedepths Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I can see how a metronome could be handy if you have serious timing issues, but I think Jeff's point must be that if you're used to playing with a metronome, you'll be a bit screwed for playing in free time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garbev Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 [quote name='TheBigBeefChief' post='98298' date='Dec 3 2007, 06:05 PM']Jeff Berlin is a nonse and if I met him, I would fight him. With fists.[/quote] Don't fight Jeff, he's a mentalist boxer. Anyhoo, try loops for practice, keep time and develop "The Groove" Ta like, Gary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 [quote name='garbev' post='98424' date='Dec 3 2007, 08:58 PM']Anyhoo, try loops for practice, keep time and develop "The Groove"[/quote] Thats the way to go..! Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theosd Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I have never ever used one, and have never ever had a problem with going out of time in a band. I help create the beat in my band rather than follow it; we all do, and so it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobius Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I don't own a metronome, but I do play along to tracks on my pc sometimes and turn my subwoofer off so it's like i'm playing along with a perfect band. It has the knock on effect of making the drums difficult to hear though. Of course you need practice with real musicians as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 My advice would be to just ignore anything that's come out of Jeff Berlin's mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnzy Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 this topic is all kinda mixed up! the real key to using a metronome is to link it with your internal one. playing subdivisions over a metronome is a key way to linking in with your own time, but it needs hard work and variety! how many people have played teen town over 40bpm? playing fast over slow tempos will help you gain a sense of where your own clock feels time. maybe try having a metronome play just the one of a groove, then play exodus! its not easy. the really strong players dont need a metronome because they feel the time already, they dont need any other player to sense it. just look at wooten or the mondesir brothers!!! i think what berlin is saying is right to a degree, that if you dont explore time and just sit down with a metronome your going to get no where. using a metronome "creatively" is the key. no music is set at even pulse with little variation! and yes Bruford is the DUDE! ps i dont think jeff is wrong because of his point, its just whats working for him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fusionbassist1 Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I think as as a teacher and a columnist jeff berlin is very valuable in modern bassplaying as even though I disagree with some of his views (and clearly so do a large amount of other musicians out there) he certainly made me question why it is that I do stuff like practice with a metronome and justify it to myself and others occassionally. For me doing something because you're formally taught to isn't enough, i have to ask 'why' otherwise it's redundant due to me not knowing how to apply it. Specifically on metronomes and click tracks he is actually stating a fact that time and rhythm in most environments have never and probably wont ever be metronomic or perfectly constant. IMO i don't use a metronome to play constantly myself, it's more of a tool for me to be consious of where I am in relevance to a given beat so that when it comes to a live setting where the human aspect is present i am able to play more steadily or pick up where i should be by listening to the beat fo the drummer. Also it's widely given that studios will want artists to play along to a clicktrack so any practice towards that is a plus in my book. If anything I think it's easier to play with a clicktrack or metronome than a real drummer as it's more predictable, I'm pretty sure Dave Weckl's more likely to throw me off the beat than a steady 4/4 beat on a metronome is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 I don't use them, never have, never will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnzy Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 [quote name='Jase' post='98516' date='Dec 3 2007, 11:24 PM']I don't use them, never have, never will.[/quote] out of interest, why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogman Posted December 4, 2007 Author Share Posted December 4, 2007 [quote name='Johnzy' post='98500' date='Dec 3 2007, 11:07 PM']this topic is all kinda mixed up![/quote] All I was after was why did he say no to e metro-gnome????? I still cant find a reason for his rant...... Thats it. N0 More No Less. The more he rants and the more i listen to him my respect for him drops down the respect scale. I have bought his new vdvd to see if the rant is explained Just call me curious.... oh and after seeing him at bass day there is no question he can shred play nice chordal stuff. But to claim we will all have to play solar sometime. I reckon some one best tell the bass player out of the Sex pistols ha ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 U mean Solar by Miles Davis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 [quote name='Johnzy' post='98517' date='Dec 3 2007, 11:25 PM']out of interest, why?[/quote] I don't have the discipline to follow a strict perfect beat or count, I'd rather rely on a drummer who has good natural timing, even if I play odd time signatures I tend to play visually and also by feel although it can prove to be quite difficult in a studio environment when drum tracks etc were recorded previously but I eventually get there I just find the metronome idea a little sterile but that's just me, our guitar player can use them really well. I don't think it's wrong to use one at all though, what ever is best for the individual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 'they feel the time already' But what if these geniuses only THINK they 'FEEL' the time? What do they DO about it? All this spooky 'Feel it' 'Sense it' 'Natural time' hippies make me laugh. They don't KNOW but, what's funnier, they don't KNOW that they don't know. 'Never used one, never will' - oooooh! you're SOOOO in touch with your raw instincts!! Your music must be SOOOOO pure! :wub: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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