Fender RW Jazz VS Lakland JO

[Musicman20]

Hi everyone

I know the RW Jazz bass gets a LOT of love on here and a fair bit on talkbass.

Can anyone comment on how they compare to the Lakland JO basses?

Im looking for 60s Jazz vibe, without the custom shop prices.

The RW Jazz is considerably cheaper, and Nitro, and has USA pickups. The Lakland is now a 'Hanson' Lakland.

Opinions?

How good is the RW Jazz?

[essexbasscat]

MY RW jazz compares very well to other instuments that cost £1000's more (apart from the finish !)

Put your blindfold on and enjoy. The only way to really understand it is to play one honestly. I didn't like the look of it to start with and I would prefer one that isn't knackered, but boy, just play it.

Mine's a 'keeper'

T

[JTUK]

On my limted experience of DJ's..I'd say they could use a pre amp, but since you have the Tone Hammer, that is that base covered.

As always, in these things, IMV, it is all about the one you pick up and how that suits. I really really don't go with this idea that all models are the same quality. I would say that the QC on these types are not foolproof.
That is not to say you can't get a really good one, but you could get a pretty average one, or worse, maybe.

But sure, from a stylistic POV, RW bound with blocks and a nice paint job is tricky to beat.

There was a visually stunning sunburst RW Jazz type with blocks etc on here a few weeks back.

I am not sure I would put a Fender in front of a Lakland, or vice versa until I had picked them up compared them both


If it were me... I would possibly get Sims to scan the neck of my fav bass and make me one up, and the same with the body..add the elecs of your choice and hopefully for decent money, you have a great bass with one of their finishes with 'custom' tweaks/touches like blocks and bindings etc

From a build/QC POV, this would get round any iffyness of pre-order from those two makes.

Or...you need to get out there and try more than a few...

Just a thought.

[Musicman20]

Well, I answered my own GAS today, sort of, by trying both side by side.

The RW Jazz was incredibly light and very pure in its tone....vintage and creamy. More about warmth than aggression. Lovely. The relic is actually brilliant...and the colour really stands out.

The Lakland sounded more modern, was a fair bit heavier, but had a nice finish. Good QC on this bass....

You will notice the Big Al order has gone. I have decided to stick with two incoming EBs to replace the two that I sold...and that one 5 string is definitely enough.

The 5 string version of the JO Lakland was next to it. I tested, and yep, the 4 string just sounded tighter and clearer. More than likely 34 vs 35 scale.

Both the JO4 and RW Jazz are a dream to play. Quick necks!

[allihts]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='885001' date='Jul 3 2010, 07:13 PM']You will notice the Big Al order has gone.[/quote]



NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

[Musicman20]

[quote name='allihts' post='885013' date='Jul 3 2010, 07:25 PM']NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!![/quote]

I just realised they have new tuners designed for some EB basses, so I'm going to look back into the Big Al then. Not only that, I need to test one before I take the plunge.

[OutToPlayJazz]

Quite true, Gareth - You've really got to play a bass before you spend two grand on it

[Musicman20]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='886701' date='Jul 5 2010, 09:35 PM']Quite true, Gareth - You've really got to play a bass before you spend two grand on it [/quote]

I definitely realised that haha. Thats the peril of mail order. But, with most the modern Fenders and definitely the EB basses, Im fine to test to see if I like them and the quality, then order one to my spec. If it turns up with problems then I guess it just gets swapped for another.

Still thinking about the RW Jazz....Im really hoping it ticks all the boxes. It sounded great...just hoping Im making the right choice.

[OutToPlayJazz]

The same as Tom (EssexBassCat) mentioned, the only thing I couldn't quite get my head around was the damage on the RW - Until I came up with the logical premise that it really didn't matter if the bass got chipped or scratched. A minor plus point in it's favour, but as you now know, how they play and sound just blows how they look out of the water, whether you like new and shiny like me, or not.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='886743' date='Jul 5 2010, 10:16 PM']The same as Tom (EssexBassCat) mentioned, the only thing I couldn't quite get my head around was the damage on the RW - Until I came up with the logical premise that it really didn't matter if the bass got chipped or scratched. A minor plus point in it's favour, but as you now know, how they play and sound just blows how they look out of the water, whether you like new and shiny like me, or not. [/quote]

Strangely I don't mind it...I think it would be quite liberating not to worry about it dinging!

I've always wanted a vintage or custom shop Fender and nearly all of them will have wear.

The main thing is playability and tone. I suppose there will always be buyers for it on Basschat should I want to move it on.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='886785' date='Jul 5 2010, 10:36 PM']I suppose there will always be buyers for it on Basschat should I want to move it on.[/quote]

Maybe even a very local one if it happens to be a sunburst bass and the weight is nice and light...

[Musicman20]

I'm going to shelve the idea for a while. The RW is a nice bass, but I've confirmed with Fender UK and USA that it's exactly the same as the MIM 60s bass, except the appearance. The extra cash is for the relic/paint. All parts are Mexican including the pickups.

That's not knocking em, but I'm going to think about it a little more.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='887858' date='Jul 6 2010, 10:21 PM']I'm going to shelve the idea for a while. The RW is a nice bass, but I've confirmed with Fender UK and USA that it's exactly the same as the MIM 60s bass, except the appearance. The extra cash is for the relic/paint. All parts are Mexican including the pickups.

That's not knocking em, but I'm going to think about it a little more.[/quote]

This has been puzzling me. Why don't people rave about the Classic 60s then? I find it hard to believe the finish makes such a massive difference. Do you think they are picking the better tonewoods for the Classic 60s, or better QC, or are the Classic 60s seriously underrated?

[Musicman20]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='887870' date='Jul 6 2010, 10:34 PM']This has been puzzling me. Why don't people rave about the Classic 60s then? I find it hard to believe the finish makes such a massive difference. Do you think they are picking the better tonewoods for the Classic 60s, or better QC, or are the Classic 60s seriously underrated?[/quote]

Exactly my thoughts....I've never played a Classic 60s but Fender confirmed it's exactly the same bar the, IMO, great colours and finish. It's a lot to pay though.

My girlfriend thinks I'm better off with my American Standards.

[warwickhunt]

How light are we talking for the bass that you tried out?

[Musicman20]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='888073' date='Jul 7 2010, 08:18 AM']How light are we talking for the bass that you tried out?[/quote]

I guess it was under the 9lbs mark...gut feeling around 8.

What I didn't understand is that the neck, when I was sat testing, seemed heavier. I couldn't test with a strap so no idea if there was any dive, but I've never encountered that before.

[OutToPlayJazz]

The nitro finish on these makes a huge difference to the sound. I compared the one I had to an American Standard and the US bass sounded almost choked by it's poly gloss finish.

Perhaps the 'holes' in the finish let more sound out or something?

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='888133' date='Jul 7 2010, 09:53 AM']The nitro finish on these makes a huge difference to the sound. I compared the one I had to an American Standard and the US bass sounded almost choked by it's poly gloss finish.

Perhaps the 'holes' in the finish let more sound out or something? [/quote]

The problem with that is it could be due to something other than the finish, there's quite a lot of differences specs'wise between a US standard and the RW . 'Cos otherwise the Highway 1's would sound amazing.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='887858' date='Jul 6 2010, 10:21 PM']I'm going to shelve the idea for a while. The RW is a nice bass, but I've confirmed with Fender UK and USA that it's exactly the same as the MIM 60s bass, except the appearance. The extra cash is for the relic/paint. All parts are Mexican including the pickups.

That's not knocking em, but I'm going to think about it a little more.[/quote]

I still think the HW-ones are better value if you dont want MIM. And the pups are (i think) USA vintage.

Heres a thought Gareth. If you do like the RW look send me one of your new SR4s when you get them and ill customize it for you and give it that RW look lol.

[artisan]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='887858' date='Jul 6 2010, 10:21 PM']I'm going to shelve the idea for a while. The RW is a nice bass, but I've confirmed with Fender UK and USA that it's exactly the same as the MIM 60s bass, except the appearance. The extra cash is for the relic/paint. All parts are Mexican including the pickups.

That's not knocking em, but I'm going to think about it a little more.[/quote]

i strongly disagree with with this,having owned a 60's classic & a RW,they may be made out of some of the same parts but it's how they are put together that makes the difference.
the 60's classic just feels,plays & sounds like any modern poly finished jazz bass whereas the RW feels,plays & sounds like an old vintage well played jazz bass--THEY ARE WORLDS APPART .

[JTUK]

Said this before...get Sims to scan all the wood to your spec but you pick the combinations.

Pick the hardwear and get them to paint it..
This way, you'll have the exact bass you want in terms of feel and looks
and no less surprises than if you bought offline.

I'll wager you'll get a much better bass and one that is made for you with all your little touches.
It'll come in around £1000

[Musicman20]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='888226' date='Jul 7 2010, 11:28 AM']I still think the HW-ones are better value if you dont want MIM. And the pups are (i think) USA vintage.

Heres a thought Gareth. If you do like the RW look send me one of your new SR4s when you get them and ill customize it for you and give it that RW look lol.[/quote]

I didnt realise how much cheaper the HW's are! Why dont people see the HW's as a good instrument? I dont understand...

[quote name='artisan' post='888244' date='Jul 7 2010, 11:49 AM']i strongly disagree with with this,having owned a 60's classic & a RW,they may be made out of some of the same parts but it's how they are put together that makes the difference.
the 60's classic just feels,plays & sounds like any modern poly finished jazz bass whereas the RW feels,plays & sounds like an old vintage well played jazz bass--THEY ARE WORLDS APPART .[/quote]

Dont get me wrong, the Road Worn Jazz I played did have a nice tone and the neck was great (although I think there was an issue with the neck being very heavy and the body being pretty damn light so it felt odd).

I asked Fender UK and USA what was 'in' the RW series to make them get the rave reviews. They said basically the only difference is the fact the nitro does attribute to a slightly different tone (although the Highway Ones are nitro) but the main reason they are the same price as USA standards is the fact that some players prefer the relic-look, and it takes them quite a while to get it right, hence higher costs.

I asked about Pups, and they said there has been confusion over this. They are standard Mex pups. Nothing wrong with that, but if im honest my American Standard sounds fantastic and was cheaper than some places are charging for a RW, and it comes with the new upgrades/a very very nice hardcase.

I dont want to see like im attacking the RWs one bit. They are great, and I like the whole relic thing, but I expected a US pup at least.

The one thing I noticed is that the output of the pups were a little low, again this is maybe more in line with a 60s bass although they are just 60s Classic pups with a relic on the surface. The Lakland JO I tried next to it sounded pretty huge compared to it.

I still want one, but I think its pointless for me to get one when Ive got the American Standard. Im going to look into other options for now.

[bumnote]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='888133' date='Jul 7 2010, 09:53 AM']The nitro finish on these makes a huge difference to the sound. I compared the one I had to an American Standard and the US bass sounded almost choked by it's poly gloss finish.

Perhaps the 'holes' in the finish let more sound out or something? [/quote]


There are a couple of sites with quite extensive information on Fender paints. They claim that from 63 onwards nearly all fenders were primed with a polyester finish called fullerplast.

I lifted these comments from one of the sites

Quote

Fact:
The two-part catalyzed coating named "Fullerplast" (Fuller for Fuller O'Brien, the products creator, and plast for the obvious PLASTIC"), solved all of Fenders finishing problems; encasing the deep wood pores in a self-hardening plastic that wrapped the body in a rock-hard solid coffin. In some cases we have found it to be as thick as a.060 string. Yes, all of the wood moisture and characteristics are sealed in a virtual time-capsule, only to be vented from the body through screw holes and paint fractures. Share this info and be the hit of your next guitar gathering!


Fact:
Fender rarely mentions Fullerplast, or the way it prepares its bodies before applying Lacquer. If they mention it at all
So, when someone tells you that a Fender "nitro-cellulose" or "nitro" finished guitar will sound better, have more warmth, or will dry out... they really don't have the full story.

End quote

It is also claimed that from the 60s onwards acrylic paints became more popular, and Fender used paints from different suppliers, some were nitrocellulose, some were acrylic.

I have no idea how true these statements are.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='bumnote' post='888823' date='Jul 7 2010, 06:59 PM']There are a couple of sites with quite extensive information on Fender paints. They claim that from 63 onwards nearly all fenders were primed with a polyester finish called fullerplast.

I lifted these comments from one of the sites

Quote

Fact:
The two-part catalyzed coating named "Fullerplast" (Fuller for Fuller O'Brien, the products creator, and plast for the obvious PLASTIC"), solved all of Fenders finishing problems; encasing the deep wood pores in a self-hardening plastic that wrapped the body in a rock-hard solid coffin. In some cases we have found it to be as thick as a.060 string. Yes, all of the wood moisture and characteristics are sealed in a virtual time-capsule, only to be vented from the body through screw holes and paint fractures. Share this info and be the hit of your next guitar gathering!


Fact:
Fender rarely mentions Fullerplast, or the way it prepares its bodies before applying Lacquer. If they mention it at all
So, when someone tells you that a Fender "nitro-cellulose" or "nitro" finished guitar will sound better, have more warmth, or will dry out... they really don't have the full story.

End quote

It is also claimed that from the 60s onwards acrylic paints became more popular, and Fender used paints from different suppliers, some were nitrocellulose, some were acrylic.

I have no idea how true these statements are.[/quote]

Interesting!

[bumnote]

Ive just bought a mexican 50s fiesta red precision from here, and I am seriously impressed. The fit and finish is flawless and it sounds great. I am using as a comparison 2 CIJapan one with a lollar, one with a thumper, and a us 64 precision.

the only criticism is the knurling on the knobs is rough.

I wonder how much difference there is if any, between the pickups made in mexico, and the ones made in the US.

The road worn series dont really do it for me, its prejudice. I know its not real, its a bit like having a squier with a fender decal. I also feel that the ones I have seen are not really convincing, the US ones are, but the RW are less so.

I used to have a skyline jo but it was very heavy, you dont see many of them around these days, and they seem to be quite expensive new. I now have a US Jo which apart from the un planned bits of relicing is flawless, and its a superb bass.

At current prices, Im not sure I would buy another one, compared to a skyline, or a Fender of some sort. I think its very much down to trying them out and seeing how they feel

Good luck